Frustration - Wife sabotages herself - women listen up

pg3ibew

Wow...reading this almost made me feel like I was writing it. I am in a relationship with an incredibely beutiful woman. However, before we started dating, she went through some bad relationships and other bad times and in over a year of getting past those things she has gained about 15 lbs. She has always been focused on her looks and is always touching up her make-up and as she said " Always wants to be the best looking girl in the room." She is 31 and any one of my friends that meets her will tell me how beuatiful she is, however, in her mind, she is fat and hates the way she looks. During our time together, 4 months, I have noticed other Low Self Esteem issues materialize, so i am starting to understand how she feels and how to interact with her to make her feel beuatiful. But I can tell you that its a lot of work and sometimes draining. I have had to learn to respond to the "You know that I am fat" or "No, really, do you think I am a telly tuby" or " Oh, my god, I can't believe how awful I look, don't you think I look awful and fat" with tack. I have gotten to the point where I tell her, "I think you are so beautiful and you have an amazing body, however, what I think doesn't seem to help you feel the same way, so we have to figure out a way for you to be happy with yourself." At that point, she smiles and thanks me, but I know that she is probably thinking that I agreed with what she said. Since she is so concerned about her weight, BTW, she now weighs 123 lbs and 5'5", I initially made the mistake of talking about the full strength sodas, etc and of course that meant that I agreed with her that she was fat. Needless to say, i now simply ask her to go with me on my walks/jogs or to the gym as a way to relieve stress...Good Luck!!

A little off topic here but I find it incredibly sad that women feel fat and ugly at 123lbs....:frown:

You are not off topic here. THAT is exactly the Guy's point. ALOT ALOT ALOT of women are like that. I know quite a few of them. Read some of the other THREADS about women feeling disgusted in the dressing room and some of the other threads.

TeachTheGirl

our society doesn't reward confident women. ''she's pretty, yeah, but doesn't she know it!'' like knowing you're attractive is a flaw. a woman saying she looks great rarely gets a good response.
but a beautiful woman who feels ugly? society loves it! it's so sweet, she's so special!! and when she says she hates herself everyone spends a nice, long time telling her she is great.

it's pretty basic programming, drip fed to women from childhood.

So much of me wants to disagree with this, but...I just can't. I feel much of our own self-hatred comes from a preconceived notion of what's expected of us. There's a lot of pressure from a very young age to look a certain way, act a certain way, dress a certain way...we're constantly pressured by our peers. People we consider friends or wish they WERE our friends.

I admit, initially I wanted to come in here ranting and raving, but I realized that I'm at fault too. I hang my head every time my husband gives me a compliment, mumble when he says something sweet...and that probably does make him feel like crap to have every genuine comment be shrugged off as 'he's just saying that because he's married to me'.

Definitely food for thought this morning...

A little off topic here but I find it incredibly sad that women feel fat and ugly at 123lbs....:frown:

124lbs here. Still feel hideous.

Sadly, my husband DOES have a part to play in that aspect of my self-esteem, but I realized it's more my doing to fix it than it was his doing to break it.

squirrelzzrule22

I don't wear make up. I don't spend time on my hair very often. I don't dress up much.We have a society that thinks women have to be objects to be looked at. I don't buy into it, but it's all around. I have 2 girls and 2 granddaughters. I'm smart, they are smart. Their self worth and confidence has nothing at all to do with how they look. Thats the way it ought to be. Yeah it's nice to look good and give out the effort, thats different than basing your judgement of someone's value of themselves on their effort to dress up and fix themselves. Fail. The women's lack of confidence problem is actually because of judgements like this. They buy into becuase it's forced on women and girls at a young age that looking good, being skinny, making other people feel good and putting their comfort and wishes aside while hiding their real awesomeness.

Encouraging someone is different than finding fault. I don't think my husband even noticed when I was fat. He loved me when I was skinny and beautiful, he loved when I dressed up. He does have opinion about my hair and clothes he doesn't like, but my confidence is best when I do what I want and what I think is best for me and allow myself to be myself.

Being pretty is a flaw, being ugly is a flaw, being stuck up or confident is a flaw, being opinionated or smart or supervisory is a flaw. Quit giving women flaws. We are human, all different with different best qualities, have more value than our looks, and not stepford wives.

I once read this article about "how to talk to little girls." The point of it was that as adults, when we meet a little girl, our first instinct is to say how cute she is, compliment her dress or cute shiny shoes or hair ribbon. From the get go we focus on this little girls appearance and that is all that is drilled into women from the beginning- our worth is our looks and clothing. The article advocated for instead asking her what she did that day, if she has a favorite book, does she like to play games or sports. It makes SO much sense but its totally not the knee-jerk reaction.

Off topic but your post reminded me of this! And I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said.

SemperAnticus1643

As a self admitted tom boy all my life, my own preference is to be in basketball shorts and a shirt with cut off sleeves or a "beater" during the summer and sweats and hoodie during the winter. I own several pairs of sweats and shorts and t-shirts so I am prepared daily to strip out of my work apparel into my more comfy clothes. I will also admit that I have never had a big self esteem issue. I have always been pretty confident in myself, sometimes too confident.

My husband on the other hand has been in relationships where he was cheated on and it has effected his psyche. As wonderful a husband as he is to me, I know he was no saint with anyone else. I think he finally fell in love and gave himself completely to me. ANYWAY!

He loves to see me dressed up in my pencil skirts and snug tops. He likes to be able to see my curves. He jokes by saying he enjoys seeing me as woman and not a 13 year old boy in my "comfy clothes". He enjoys getting dressed up. He likes to "look good" in his ties and dress shirts and slacks. I can't get out of that crap fast enough. We are completely different people in what is "comfy". Can't change that no matter how hard we try. I am an accountant and wear the business casual attire everyday for the last 7 years and I still hate it.

I have learned that with my husband, it's not a matter of physical appearance that his self-esteem is low, it's a matter of how he feels about himself and his self-worth as a whole, its a mental issue. He knows I find him attractive. He knows I love him. He knows our children adore him. He knows I will never cheat on him, But that didn't change how he felt mentally about himself. It tooks years before he has finally overcame that hinderance. And it's still there on occasion because of the questions he asks me from time to time. It became a really big issue when he started questioning my love for him. It was then that I told him that when I am giving all I have to him and the love he seeks in his "love language" and he is still questioning my love then it will become an issue in our relationship. Only the person suffering from the self-esteem issue can overcome it. We as the significant others can only provide a positive environment for the recovery. As tiring as it may seem, we knew before we married our spoused what their flaws were and we married them anyway. Getting married isn't going to change them overnight.

I would recommend reading the 5 Love Languages. Maybe the way you are showing you love her isn't the way she responds to love. I am the type that you have to show me by doing things: helping me clean the house, changing my tire for me, pulling my chair out at dinner. My husband's love language is touch: my touching him as I walk by him in the hallway, a sudden embrace for no reason, cuddling on the couch, back massages.

My 2 cents anyway. Good luck!!

pg3ibew

our society doesn't reward confident women. ''she's pretty, yeah, but doesn't she know it!'' like knowing you're attractive is a flaw. a woman saying she looks great rarely gets a good response.
but a beautiful woman who feels ugly? society loves it! it's so sweet, she's so special!! and when she says she hates herself everyone spends a nice, long time telling her she is great.

it's pretty basic programming, drip fed to women from childhood.

So much of me wants to disagree with this, but...I just can't. I feel much of our own self-hatred comes from a preconceived notion of what's expected of us. There's a lot of pressure from a very young age to look a certain way, act a certain way, dress a certain way...we're constantly pressured by our peers. People we consider friends or wish they WERE our friends.

I admit, initially I wanted to come in here ranting and raving, but I realized that I'm at fault too. I hang my head every time my husband gives me a compliment, mumble when he says something sweet...and that probably does make him feel like crap to have every genuine comment be shrugged off as 'he's just saying that because he's married to me'.

Definitely food for thought this morning...

A little off topic here but I find it incredibly sad that women feel fat and ugly at 123lbs....:frown:

124lbs here. Still feel hideous.

Sadly, my husband DOES have a part to play in that aspect of my self-esteem, but I realized it's more my doing to fix it than it was his doing to break it.

Love the honesty in this. Thank you.

PRMinx

So much has been said to the OP already, I don't have much to add. But, I will say that starting your post with "women listen up," got you slapped right out of the gate.

Not all women are like your wife and your wife is not like all women. We are all individuals with our own needs, feelings, insecurities and so on. Why do you feel it's ok to lecture us all based on the experiences you have had with your wife? Are you, at 27yo, an expert on the female psyche? Doubtful.

Women are pressure all day, every day to look, feel and perform a certain way. It's all around us in the media, in the workplace, in our homes and in our personal lives. Men can't possibly understand how we internalize this bombardment because it's not something that you have had to encounter first hand. And this is just at face value. We don't actually know if there are any experiences your wife has had in the past that is exasperating the issue.

Now, before everyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that all women care about the noise. I'm just saying it is there and something we need to process, for good or for bad. And I'm not saying men can't be empathetic or supportive, because they can. There's a number of awesome posts on this board from men who clearly get it and want to help.

Improvised

Wow...reading this almost made me feel like I was writing it. I am in a relationship with an incredibely beutiful woman. However, before we started dating, she went through some bad relationships and other bad times and in over a year of getting past those things she has gained about 15 lbs. She has always been focused on her looks and is always touching up her make-up and as she said " Always wants to be the best looking girl in the room." She is 31 and any one of my friends that meets her will tell me how beuatiful she is, however, in her mind, she is fat and hates the way she looks. During our time together, 4 months, I have noticed other Low Self Esteem issues materialize, so i am starting to understand how she feels and how to interact with her to make her feel beuatiful. But I can tell you that its a lot of work and sometimes draining. I have had to learn to respond to the "You know that I am fat" or "No, really, do you think I am a telly tuby" or " Oh, my god, I can't believe how awful I look, don't you think I look awful and fat" with tack. I have gotten to the point where I tell her, "I think you are so beautiful and you have an amazing body, however, what I think doesn't seem to help you feel the same way, so we have to figure out a way for you to be happy with yourself." At that point, she smiles and thanks me, but I know that she is probably thinking that I agreed with what she said. Since she is so concerned about her weight, BTW, she now weighs 123 lbs and 5'5", I initially made the mistake of talking about the full strength sodas, etc and of course that meant that I agreed with her that she was fat. Needless to say, i now simply ask her to go with me on my walks/jogs or to the gym as a way to relieve stress...Good Luck!!

A little off topic here but I find it incredibly sad that women feel fat and ugly at 123lbs....:frown:

You are not off topic here. THAT is exactly the Guy's point. ALOT ALOT ALOT of women are like that. I know quite a few of them. Read some of the other THREADS about women feeling disgusted in the dressing room and some of the other threads.

I felt like a gross, ugly fatso at 120 lbs. Interestingly enough, it was my husband who drew me out of my self loathing.

med2017

this is so true. some woman over do make up and dressing up because they feel they are not good enough, it goes both ways. i know because i have self confidence issues :flowerforyou:

YepLilly

So much has been said to the OP already, I don't have much to add. But, I will say that starting your post with "women listen up," got you slapped right out of the gate.

Not all women are like your wife and your wife is not like all women. We are all individuals with our own needs, feelings, insecurities and so on. Why do you feel it's ok to lecture us all based on the experiences you have had with your wife? Are you, at 27yo, an expert on the female psyche? Doubtful.

Women are pressure all day, every day to look, feel and perform a certain way. It's all around us in the media, in the workplace, in our homes and in our personal lives. Men can't possibly understand how we internalize this bombardment because it's not something that you have had to encounter first hand. And this is just at face value. We don't actually know if there are any experiences your wife has had in the past that is exasperating the issue.

Now, before everyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that all women care about the noise. I'm just saying it is there and something we need to process, for good or for bad. And I'm not saying men can't be empathetic or supportive, because they can. There's a number of awesome posts on this board from men who clearly get it and want to help.

+1

glovepuppet

So much of me wants to disagree with this, but...I just can't. I feel much of our own self-hatred comes from a preconceived notion of what's expected of us. There's a lot of pressure from a very young age to look a certain way, act a certain way, dress a certain way...we're constantly pressured by our peers. People we consider friends or wish they WERE our friends.

I admit, initially I wanted to come in here ranting and raving, but I realized that I'm at fault too. I hang my head every time my husband gives me a compliment, mumble when he says something sweet...and that probably does make him feel like crap to have every genuine comment be shrugged off as 'he's just saying that because he's married to me'.

Definitely food for thought this morning...

i read somewhere that the polite response to a compliment is a smile and a thank you. until i saw it in black & white i didn't know, because no women i knew ever did that.
so now i smile wide and say thank you, because the kindness of a compliment deserves the reward of a thank you. it felt odd at first but, after a while, it actually made it easier to believe the compliment because i wasn't talking myself out of it.

i'm beautiful! saying that doesn't make me shallow or big headed. in fact, in my opinion, physical beauty is the least impressive thing about me.

deborahmills22

You should two should talk about your feelings together. How do you know what she is feeling if you don't ask her? Also, it sounds like she can't be herself around you. When people get married, some of the "fixing up" goes away. It's called being ourselves. We don't always look like we're going on a date or to the prom.

DeeJayTJ

I'm a woman who feels more comfortable with my hair pulled back, some jeans, and a t-shirt. If my husband ever threw my hairbands away, and told me that I needed to make myself more presentable, he would not be my husband. Shame on you. She's not your trophy.

Sorry, but after reading that part, I couldn't even make it to the end.

I think you missed the overall point of his story.

Querian

I don't know if OP is still following this thread, I only read a couple of pages, but I have a confidence building suggestion I haven't seen in the pages I did read:

What about encouraging her to get involved in something like martial arts? I know this is completely different than your post but a discipline like martial arts really does make a person feel strong and powerful and builds confidence that is not at all based on looks but rather on ability. You could both do this together and maybe an activity like this where pretty totally doesn't matter is a way to build some more confidence.

Good luck, I wish you both the best. :flowerforyou:

PRMinx

I love the "If my husband told me I needed to do X, or threw my hair bands away, that'd be it!" responses.

--Asian brides for the win.

Yes, please stay out of my dating pool.

glovepuppet

I once read this article about "how to talk to little girls." The point of it was that as adults, when we meet a little girl, our first instinct is to say how cute she is, compliment her dress or cute shiny shoes or hair ribbon. From the get go we focus on this little girls appearance and that is all that is drilled into women from the beginning- our worth is our looks and clothing. The article advocated for instead asking her what she did that day, if she has a favorite book, does she like to play games or sports. It makes SO much sense but its totally not the knee-jerk reaction.

Off topic but your post reminded me of this! And I wholeheartedly agree with what you've said.

i hate that! i've always made a point to tell my daughter she is smart & moral & funny more often.

i also refuse to read fairy tales. all that bull about the princess always being dim and helpless, and the prince falling in love with her at first sight just because she's pretty? and, of course, the wicked witch is usually ugly and old.

PRMinx

I love the "If my husband told me I needed to do X, or threw my hair bands away, that'd be it!" responses.

--Asian brides for the win.

Anyways. Yeah just keep telling her she's pretty, smile a lot, and tell her she's doing well. Confidence is grown, she'll get it.

Yeah, those Asians, they sure know how to take a punch.

For all of your awesome snark, :flowerforyou:

Calliope610

I haven't read all 20 pages, just the first 1 or 2, but...

My husband has loved this 50yo, 230lb, baggy pants and big shirts wearing, hair in a ponytail sometimes, no make-up most of the time woman for 12 years. Regardless of what I look like or wear.

Of course, he wants me to feel good about myself.

Of course, he wants me to be healthy.

Of course, he would like me to lose weight.

But he also knows there ain't a damn thing he can do the change me UNLESS I AM WILLING TO MAKE THE CHANGES. So, he has loved me all this time, until I recently BECAME WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES.

And I am making the changes because I finally became unhappy enough with my lifestyle that I am willing to invest the effort into change. I am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get the lifestyle I want. Pain is a great motivator. Let your wife find the level of pain necessary for her to make her changes.

Her job is to make the change, your job is to love and support her. But don't dictate when, where and how she does it.

askeates

First I applaud you for caring enough to look for ways to help her and yourself....

Second, ok so throwing away the hair ties probably sent the wrong message to her, and from your remark about you know you were wrong, that's good that you realize what you did was not the right way to handle the situation.

Finally, the best advice is to continue to support her, be her friend, her confidant and her lover. Show her in little ways just how much you appreciate not just how she looks but also the things that she does (both for you and for herself). Often times we start to doubt ourselves when we feel like we are just not enough, and it may manifest in appearance, but most of the time it is not just about that! (I know we women are so complicated). Talk to her, and ask some questions.... sometimes a simple question is all that is needed to show just how much you appreciate and care, attention to the soul is often times even more important than the attention to the appearance.

Best of luck, and again, kudos to you for really wanting to help!

Calliope610

She's 22, you've been married for 3 years. Sir, you married a 19 yo girl.

Let her grow up to become the women she is, not the wife you want her to be.

lacurandera1

tl;dr. I skimmed and stopped at "I can't give her a compliment bc she thinks I am lying." Maybe because you have lied to her? In my experience, people think liars lie. Just saying.