Dancer bodies?

peachfigs

dancers are using their own body weight and do a ton of stretching which will lengthen

Defies human physiology if one can lengthen muscle from stretching. Stretching is for flexibility purposes. If your muscles are anchored already from one end of a bone (via a tendon) to another, how do you "de anchor" it from stretching?


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To clarify, I am not talking about lengthening the muscle by moving the anchor points. I agree that would be impossible unless by unfortunate accident.

I am talking about maximising the potential range of the muscle between those anchor points. Many people and especially lifters who do not stretch regularly have a lesser range of movement compared to a dancer, yogi, acrobat etc and the visual appearance can be that the stretched muscle is longer more sleek simply because as you extend a muscle it becomes narrower at the midpoint - for example opening up your arm will extend and narrow the bicep, contracting will thicken the bicep.

The photos that are being uploaded to illustrate long muscles in dancers are pretty much all pictures showing extreme flexibility so of course the muscles will look longer comared to the lifter photos where the muscles are being deliberately contracted to maximise the appearance of increased muscle mass.

A body can appear to be both, depending on whether the body is contracted or stretched.

Also, dancers, yogis, gymnasts tend to work with bodyweight rather than extrenal weights. This increases muscle strength without adding muscle mass to a point; a smaller muscle looks relatively longer as has been agreed.

By "smaller", do you mean a muscle that hasn't been worked as hard? Or perhaps muscles that have been built without a huge calorie surplus?

EvgeniZyntx

Because this thread needs pilobulus.

dragonfly_em

different poses! bet the ballerinas doing a kettleball swing and zuzanna doing an arabesque might give the opposite impression

DavPul

Because this thread needs pilobulus.

I'm not sure what those dancers are trying to accomplish but for my money they're doing it wrong

ladyraven68

I know a girl who is a professional dancer and she is built like a modern gymnast. Of course, I love that look.

Me too

Hope this works

EvgeniZyntx

Because this thread needs pilobulus.

I'm not sure what those dancers are trying to accomplish but for my money they're doing it wrong

Shush Dave.

DavPul

Better. At least the ratio of penii seems to be improved

jonnythan

Muscles don't get longer or shorter.

A lean person with relatively small muscles has muscles that look "long" and "skinny" the way a tall, thin person looks elongated and skinny.

A lean person with large muscles looks "bulky" and "short" the way an offensive lineman does, despite their height.

Anyone can sculpt their body for either look, though genetics will determine just how successful they are.

EvgeniZyntx

Actually, to all those stating that muscles don't get longer - this might be incorrect.

Muscle extensibility varies both dynamically while tensing and over time with stretching, maybe. Here is an article that covers current theory while cautiously suggesting that greater flexibility is just sensation.

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/3/438.full#content-block

Food for thought, careful about absolute positions.

jonnythan

Actually, to all those stating that muscles don't get longer - this might be incorrect.

Muscle extensibility varies both dynamically while tensing and over time with stretching, maybe. Here is an article that covers current theory while cautiously suggesting that greater flexibility is just sensation.

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/3/438.full#content-block

Food for thought, careful about absolute positions.

First of all, stretching does not increase how long a muscle looks. That doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, the article you linked to says that, contrary to the traditional view that increased muscle flexibility is a result of small changes in physical length combined with sensitivity, new evidence suggests that there's no increase in length at all!

If you look at the biomechanics, the "length" of the muscle would only be increasing a very small amount, on the order of about half a centimeter or so for something like a biceps going from "normal" to "very flexible." It has nothing to do with the appearance of the muscle.

Small, thin muscles look elongated. Large muscles look bulky. That's just how it works.

A combination of modest musculature with low but not super low body fat gives you the soft, long, lean look. A combination of significant muscle and very low body fat gives you the bulky, muscular look.

For an individual it's all a function of muscle size and body fat. When comparing different people, genetics play a huge role as well. Comparing professionals in one area versus professionals in another gives you an extremely skilled look because in general people who are actual pros are genetically predisposed to a certain look or function, especially in something as image-centric as ballet.

ninerbuff

dancers are using their own body weight and do a ton of stretching which will lengthen

Defies human physiology if one can lengthen muscle from stretching. Stretching is for flexibility purposes. If your muscles are anchored already from one end of a bone (via a tendon) to another, how do you "de anchor" it from stretching?


A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

To clarify, I am not talking about lengthening the muscle by moving the anchor points. I agree that would be impossible unless by unfortunate accident.

I am talking about maximising the potential range of the muscle between those anchor points. Many people and especially lifters who do not stretch regularly have a lesser range of movement compared to a dancer, yogi, acrobat etc and the visual appearance can be that the stretched muscle is longer more sleek simply because as you extend a muscle it becomes narrower at the midpoint - for example opening up your arm will extend and narrow the bicep, contracting will thicken the bicep.

Intern that will also contract the tricep muscle, so anyone with good muscle mass would accentuate the visual look of the long head of the tricep when retract the biceps.

The photos that are being uploaded to illustrate long muscles in dancers are pretty much all pictures showing extreme flexibility so of course the muscles will look longer comared to the lifter photos where the muscles are being deliberately contracted to maximise the appearance of increased muscle mass.

A body can appear to be both, depending on whether the body is contracted or stretched.

Also, dancers, yogis, gymnasts tend to work with bodyweight rather than extrenal weights. This increases muscle strength without adding muscle mass to a point; a smaller muscle looks relatively longer as has been agreed.

And agreed about body weight. Since the weight isn't progressive resistance (unless there's some difference in leverage) repetition of lifting the same resistance over time will build muscle endurance and strength for that particular resistance.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Body fat plays a role too. Here are 2 pics of the same girl depicting a more "muscular" look and her "softer" look.




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BinaryPulsar

Body fat does play a part. When I first joined I thought that when people said that, they were saying that dancers were fat. LOL. I understand now.

EvgeniZyntx

Actually, to all those stating that muscles don't get longer - this might be incorrect.

Muscle extensibility varies both dynamically while tensing and over time with stretching, maybe. Here is an article that covers current theory while cautiously suggesting that greater flexibility is just sensation.

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/3/438.full#content-block

Food for thought, careful about absolute positions.

First of all, stretching does not increase how long a muscle looks. That doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, the article you linked to says that, contrary to the traditional view that increased muscle flexibility is a result of small changes in physical length combined with sensitivity, new evidence suggests that there's no increase in length at all!

If you look at the biomechanics, the "length" of the muscle would only be increasing a very small amount, on the order of about half a centimeter or so for something like a biceps going from "normal" to "very flexible." It has nothing to do with the appearance of the muscle.

Small, thin muscles look elongated. Large muscles look bulky. That's just how it works.

A combination of modest musculature with low but not super low body fat gives you the soft, long, lean look. A combination of significant muscle and very low body fat gives you the bulky, muscular look.

For an individual it's all a function of muscle size and body fat. When comparing different people, genetics play a huge role as well. Comparing professionals in one area versus professionals in another gives you an extremely skilled look because in general people who are actual pros are genetically predisposed to a certain look or function, especially in something as image-centric as ballet.

The article I linked supports one theory but also presents the background of the competing theories. It's not so clear cut. But other than that, I somewhat agree with what you are saying. The muscle lengthening will have, if any, a minor role in presentation.

"Genetics" is such a catch- all phrase where in reality childhood nutritional and regimental environment have so much impact on hormonal function, height, limb length as to be highly significant. It's not genetic predisposition but professional selection in ballet.

Meet Ragen, professional dancer not selected for the thread



And just because I like modern dance...

upgetupgetup

A little story for a little context:

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/16/arts/eating-disorders-haunt-ballerinas.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm


An example of the attitudes supporting systemic disordered eating/body image in dance:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/04/arts/dance/04ballet.html

upgetupgetup

Meet Ragen, professional dancer not selected for the thread

Ragen's aesthetic completely to one side- what the crap is happening with her right knee and hips? That is really bad, like damaging, like arthritis is gonna happen in ten years turnout..

mind you I guess every dancer is going to get arthritis probably, but her right foot is on the verge of pronating, her knee is twisted, looks like unbalanced hypermobility

Yogi_Carl

Actually, to all those stating that muscles don't get longer - this might be incorrect.

Muscle extensibility varies both dynamically while tensing and over time with stretching, maybe. Here is an article that covers current theory while cautiously suggesting that greater flexibility is just sensation.

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/90/3/438.full#content-block

Food for thought, careful about absolute positions.

First of all, stretching does not increase how long a muscle looks. That doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, the article you linked to says that, contrary to the traditional view that increased muscle flexibility is a result of small changes in physical length combined with sensitivity, new evidence suggests that there's no increase in length at all!

If you look at the biomechanics, the "length" of the muscle would only be increasing a very small amount, on the order of about half a centimeter or so for something like a biceps going from "normal" to "very flexible." It has nothing to do with the appearance of the muscle.

Small, thin muscles look elongated. Large muscles look bulky. That's just how it works.

A combination of modest musculature with low but not super low body fat gives you the soft, long, lean look. A combination of significant muscle and very low body fat gives you the bulky, muscular look.

For an individual it's all a function of muscle size and body fat. When comparing different people, genetics play a huge role as well. Comparing professionals in one area versus professionals in another gives you an extremely skilled look because in general people who are actual pros are genetically predisposed to a certain look or function, especially in something as image-centric as ballet.

With respect, how do you account for people coming along to a yoga or stretching class who can barely get their fingers past their knees and slowly over time stretch the hamstrings to the point where they can stand on their hands with the legs straight - must be a lengthening of something up to three or so inches.

This lengthening isn't to do with de-anchoring the muscle from it's tendon fixings, it is to do with unlocking the potential within the entire length of the muscle through relaxation and traction over time against tension to keep the muscle stable while it is being stretched.

At first the muscle is relatively short and joint between the bones is unable to open up to it's widest possible angle. After developing flexibility, the joint is able to reach a wider angle because the muscle limiting the maximum joint angle is longer.

If it is longer - it's going to look longer.

Anyhow - I'm outta here as this is doin' my 'ead in!

Respect to you all, whatever your viewpoints. :flowerforyou:

EvgeniZyntx

Meet Ragen, professional dancer not selected for the thread

Ragen's aesthetic completely to one side- what the crap is happening with her right knee and hips? That is really bad, like damaging, like arthritis is gonna happen in ten years turnout..

mind you I guess every dancer is going to get arthritis probably, but her right foot is on the verge of pronating, her knee is twisted, looks like unbalanced hypermobility

Oh, look nothing like a little jibe of criticism. /smh

CoderGal

Meet Ragen, professional dancer not selected for the thread

Ragen's aesthetic completely to one side- what the crap is happening with her right knee and hips? That is really bad, like damaging, like arthritis is gonna happen in ten years turnout..

mind you I guess every dancer is going to get arthritis probably, but her right foot is on the verge of pronating, her knee is twisted, looks like unbalanced hypermobility

Oh, look nothing like a little jibe of criticism. /smh

Yep, tiquando and dancer people will all suffer terrible deaths....</sarcasm>

I was actually diagnosed with arthritis when I was 8. I was promptly enrolled in dance and it got "leaps" and bounds better after dancing. I use to cry in pain every night. I still have arthritis...but whenever I get a spout of it I usually do dance/yoga. It also helps me hide:


And walk on roofs and floors at the same time:

upgetupgetup

Ragen's aesthetic completely to one side- what the crap is happening with her right knee and hips? That is really bad, like damaging, like arthritis is gonna happen in ten years turnout..

mind you I guess every dancer is going to get arthritis probably, but her right foot is on the verge of pronating, her knee is twisted, looks like unbalanced hypermobility

Oh, look nothing like a little jibe of criticism. /smh

Sorry I sidestepped your point. My comment had nothing to do with her appearance, that just looks straight up dangerous. I love dance, and hate injury. I do not enjoy looking at dancers who look like they're hurting themselves. Which is one reason I rarely watch ballet, and prefer contemporary stuff - I love seeing a variety of human figures in powerful, graceful (or expressive or evocative, but ultimately non-injurious) motion