BMR and TDEE Explained for Those Needing a Guide
Replies
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BUMP!0
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Why on earth is this a sticky thread? The OP is basically a rehash of the completely-inaccurate "starvation mode" nonsense that gets so many people in trouble.
If anything, this thread should be deleted.
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Epic fail. Lost at 'coma" - BMR is measured on concious subjects at rest.0
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THIS IS ACTUALLY GOOD INFORMATION PEOPLE!!!
FAVORITE THIS THREAD!
Are you sure?
Maybe I should go back and read it again...it made my eyes cross the first time.
It is not that complicated and it seems as if she is combining different methods.
The Fat to Fit site that she referenced is about eating at your TDEE of you GOAL weight not TDEE minus a percentage.
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Only two words can describe the OP... super helpful.0
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THIS IS ACTUALLY GOOD INFORMATION PEOPLE!!!
FAVORITE THIS THREAD!
Are you sure?
Maybe I should go back and read it again...it made my eyes cross the first time.
It is not that complicated and it seems as if she is combining different methods.
The Fat to Fit site that she referenced is about eating at your TDEE of you GOAL weight not TDEE minus a percentage.
This is true.
You can also explain the TDEE minus a percentage method and the fat2fit eat the TDEE of your goal weight (which are different, although both nice methods) without all the false starvation mode stuff or the scare tactic about how eating less than BMR will prevent you from losing and put your life at risk.1 -
What on earth is "bump"????????0
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It brings it back up to the top0
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Bump0
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bmp0
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Her calculations are spot on. I worked my numbers on the site and they match calculations I did from a book, Racing Weight.0
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kmcosgrove115 wrote: »UPDATE for those afraid to eat more:
So less then 3 weeks ago I put this post up after thoroughly understanding TDEE and BMR. I decided to increase my calories to 1680 based on my #'s with a 20% loss from TDEE.
The first week, I lost the slight 3 lb gain I had when I was eating at a deficit - despite eating below 1200 when I was "unschooled" my body kept and retained even the plant based food - it was hungry! But after that bump to 1680, I lost those 3 lbs PLUS another 1 lb at that weigh in.
And today, down another pound making the loss since this increased calorie adjustment 5 lbs in less then 3 weeks!
The logic holds, it just makes sense and I was so afraid to eat - yesterday my cold was kicking my butt and I had to force in food and felt awful at only getting less then 1400 and said today I HAD to eat b/c no way would I stall my body again - this works and so much less hungry! Everyone, adjust, eat and lose!
So at 1200 calories the OP gains 3 pounds 'even the plant based food' but increasing the calories lowered her BW 5 pounds. And people are saying great post?!? I'm not sure I've read a more confusing thread trying to describe TDEE, BMR, fat2fit, military BF, and so on. Lord, it is entertaining though.
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Thank you kmcosgorve, this was such an informative post, but if this is true, then MFP has calculated my daily calorie intake below my BMR and if I understand the original post correctly, the daily calorie intake should not be below the BMR. Do I understand that correct?
I went to the website that kmcosgrove recommended and it said my BMR is 1771. When I calculated my TDEE, it appears that it depends on my activity level. For the past month and a half, I've been exercising 4 or 5 times a week and burning between 200 and 350 calories each time. Based on the results from this website, my TDEE is 2745 calories per day. (See picture below)
So, to follow kmscosgrove's example, in order to lose weight, I then multiplied my TDEE (2745) by 20% and get 549, then subtract that from 2745 and get 2196 calories a day. This number seems way too high.
MFP says my daily calorie goal should be 1650 (chose sedentary - maybe I should have chosen a more active status????) BTW I've been on MFP for 21 days and I rarely meet the 1650 calorie goal. I'm always under - averaging around 1550 or so and have only lost 2 pounds. I'm so confused and beyond frustrated. What am I doing wrong? What am I missing? -Madelyn
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BMR is not a bottom stop for food intake, especially in the obese. MFP will target the large majority of sedentary people wanting to lose 1 lb/week at below their BMR. It's inevitable. Exercising and "eating back" will increase food intake but not increase the deficit / weight loss rate.
The Harris Benedict 1771 prediction is well above a Katch McArdle estimate of 1480 BMR. There weren't many heavy women in the early 1900s research I suspect - Italian conscript soldiers were better represented.
MFP uses Mifflin St Jeor which predicts 1720 BMR * 1.2 for sedentary - 500 for 1 lb/week = 1564 cals0 -
@madkcole I couldn't reproduce your output at fat2fit :-
Custom BMR Calculation
Entered information: 51 year old female, 66 inches tall, weighing 240 pounds.
From the information that you entered, you'd like to weigh 176 lbs.
Harris-Benedict Formula
There are a few different methods to calculating yourbasal metabolic rate (BMR). One of the most popular, developed in the early 1900's is called the Harris-Benedict formula. Based on this formula, your current BMR is 1771 calories.
Katch-McArdle Forumla
The numbers above are fairly accurate, however they don't take into account your lean body mass. A more accurate formula that does take your lean body mass into account is the Katch-McArdle formula. Since many of us have scales that will tell us our current body fat, this formula may yield more accurate results. Based on the information you provided, body fat percentage of 52%, you have a lean body mass of 115 lbs., and your BMR is 1499 calories.
How Many Calories Should I Eat?
Based on your goal weight, the following chart was generated. The chart shows the number of calories that you should eat on a daily basis to reach your goal weight. At Fat 2 Fit Tools we advocate eating like the thin, healthy person that you want to become. The calorie levels you see in the chart are not extreme, but they do create that all important caloric deficit that is required to get you to your goal weight in a safe manner. Once you reach your goal weight, you will continue eating the same number of calories for the rest of your life to maintain that weight. You'll never be on a diet again.
Based on how much activity you do on an average day, the calories in the right column will be the number of calories that you will be able to eat at your goal weight. If you start eating those calories right now (eating like the thinner you), you will eventually become that thinner person. As you get closer to your goal weight, your weight loss will start to slow down. It is OK to eat a few hundred calories less per day (200-300) to speed up your weight loss at this point.
Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1790
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 20520 -
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kmcosgrove115 wrote: »After posting and learning about BMR and TDEE from some great people on this forum, I finally got the full understanding of BMR and TDEE. I just emailed a friend at work all that I learned as we changed our lifestyle and eating at the same time - I thought a copy of my email may help those in the forum seeking a "dummies guide" to BMR and TDEE..............hope it helps!
Ok, now second, BMR and TDEE:
So in wanting to lose weight, people get confused and frustrated early on when doing a diet or making a lifestyle shift like being plant strong. Initially, esp on this way of eating, we all had big drops - much of that is due to inflammation from the bad food we were ingesting or water weight.
The mind set you have to force yourself into and reiterate is that realistically, weight should come off slow as your body re-learns how to get nutrients and burn off fat again. Your body does not care that you want to drop "x" amount of weight in so many months - it's only job is survival.
So, like many, I thought with my online tracking system thru MyFitnessPal.com, that I should listen to it's "recommendations" (and many docs say this too), to restrict not only portion size but amount of calorie intake to 1200 a day. The problem is that many of us require 1500 or more a day to simply live, to keep our heart beating, to make the brain work - at minimum we need 1500 or more given to us if we were lying in a coma in the hospital.
Given that fact, what we are told with 1200 cal / day is simply false and very detrimental to our body. Some call it "starvation mode" but a more accurate description would be "nutrient deficient." The body looks at that 1200 calories and says, ok, I need (in my case to get specific) 1529 a day to keep you living and breathing and you are giving me 1200, a 300 deficit.
So, in order to keep you living and breathing, again, body NOT caring about weight loss, the body will slow or stop some other systems (metabolism being the 1st it stops) and hang on to those 1200 calories b/c all it knows is that you are under-feeding it and so it must "hoard" that 1200, store it as fat and keep you alive. You essentially are stopping the metabolic process to a halt when you under eat.
If you can get your head around that concept, then it becomes easy to see, much like a cell phone needing to be charged to turn on and work, your body, your metabolism, NEEDS at minimum that 1529 (in my case) and MORE to really work efficiently, keep me alive AND burn and lose weight. That 1529 # is called "BMR" - basal metabolic rate.
To figure out what your individual BMR is, there are many online calculators - trust me I think I found them all. And although no two will be identical, as I ran my #'s, the results were fairly close to 1529. I read a very informative post on MFP reg this topic and the site they recommend is this:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/
And specifically, to get your most accurate BMR, they ask first, that you run the Military Body Fat Calculator:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/mbf/
That will require your:
sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
neck measurement (in inches)
waist measurement (in inches)
hip measurement (in inches)
When you submit this info, the system will generate your true body fat %. Jot that % down on a piece of paper, then go to their BMR calculator link at:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/
And plug in:
age
sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
GOAL weight (in pounds)
and that body fat % you just wrote
Now, a caveat - for GOAL weight, they ask that you enter in your current weight again - the reason being that when you enter your true GOAL weight, the system will show you a BMR to eat at so that when you reach that GOAL, you are used to and continue to eat at that calorie / day. It will work and it is accurate however, the weight loss will be slow and many of us are not patient enough to do it that way.
When you enter your current weight as GOAL, it will generate what they call TDEE - total daily energy expenditure. THAT # is important as it tells you, taking into account your personal information, not only the minimum BMR to stay alive, but the amount of calories per day you need to MAINTAIN at the weight you are at RIGHT NOW.
The best way to lose weight a bit faster then the above with true GOAL weight AND still doing it at a healthy pace, is to take that TDEE # from the chart that will generate and less out a % which will give you an accurate amount to eat per day to lose weight.
On the chart will be multiple lines describing activity levels - as much as I work at a desk job, I have used a pedometer for the large corporation I work in along with kids and shuffling all day and can log in 5-7K in steps per day. So appearances say pick "desk job" but much again has been discussed on the activity level and the one common thread and mistake people make at this critical calculation is underestimating their activity level.
If you say you work out 1 hour a day maybe 2-3 times a week at most and consider that "little exercise," what do you do with the other 23 hours in your day? You work, walk, run kids here and there, chores around the house, etc.
So the mantra being said is unless you literally lay in bed all day every day, if you have little exercise but go to work and do other things that keep you moving in some way (even showering burns calories), everyone at the minimum should be selecting "light" activity or higher. So pick a truly accurate level and consider all the things you do all day.
So, let's do real life example:
my BMR is 1529 (I now know I must eat AT LEAST that per day minimum)
I work at desk job but again, I walk easily 5-7K steps a day with work and kids, so I look at the "light" activity line
my TDEE right now at my current weight is 2116 - that is the "light" activity line # for my measurements, stats, body fat %, etc for my weight RIGHT NOW (which will change) - if I ate 2116 every day my body would stay at the same weight - this is what you would eat to not change your weight
but like many, I want to lose - I love the plant strong health benefits for sure, but I do want to lose
what you do then is take your particular TDEE # (2116) from the chart and less out a %
the general rule of thumb is, if you want to lose:
5-10 pounds, less out 10%
10-20 pounds, less out 15%
20 or more pounds, less out 20%
anything higher in % is really for people who have undergone gastric surgeries and going higher could potentially put your body back in that "nutrient deficient" mode so 20% is about what most use as a healthy guide
now, 2116 x 20% would give me 423 - I deduct that 423 from 2116 and get:
1693
that 1693 is now my calories per day to eat that will not only maintain my BMR (which I know is 1529) but will also allow me to eat UNDER the 2116 TDEE for my weight right now - that concept is what they call "eat more to weigh less" and it goes contrary to what we all learned as far as losing weight - I am still learning to accept this as fact and EAT more.
So, now that has me eating 20% under 2116 to lose (1693) but ABOVE my BMR so that my body learns I am not starving it, that it should not "hoard" the calories and keep the fat and eventually the body will release the fat.
Many people looking to lose weight fall into this trap where they have eaten so little for so long that the body has to re-learn and reset the metabolism - in fact, some believe a true "reset" would be to eat at the TDEE # (2116) for 6 weeks or so and only THEN drop off a %.
Either way, knowing this exact # will surely get you to where you want to be - it's just that your body trying to survive may take a few weeks to understand you are not going to deprive it any more and it CAN let go of the fat as it understands it will always be fed and nourished to the point it is not panicked and storing it all.............make sense?
Where I am personally is going into 6 weeks plant strong (YAY!) and almost 2 weeks at my re-adjusted 1680 per day calorie - I did the 1200 and many days below that for those first few weeks so my body must re-learn.
I may have 4 weeks yet for my body to truly learn and let go of the fat and to burn all the time. It is hard b/c you want it NOW but gaining weight took a while and so will losing it. In fact, some have a slight gain while the metabolism is resetting so be warned, do not panic, it means the body is changing the way you need it to change to burn fat.
The body just needs the time to re-learn so, for me, I will wait the 6 weeks if needed, keep eating whole food plant based, ignoring the scale as much as I can and wait - it WILL drop off - it is logic, the body must and will change and let go eventually.
Last note on TDEE, as you lose weight, maybe every 5-10 lbs, return to the site that gives you the calculations and reassess your TDEE as the more you lose, the more that # will change and this way you are always eating right AT where you should and following the eating you need so you are never too far under and thwarting your body back into being nutrient deficient and stalled.
I have also noticed although I lost 13 lbs in about 5 weeks, the weight loss now is slower but I swear my shape is changing - dresses and pants fit that were too snug before, I see definition in my thigh and calf muscles that were not there - this is probably why if you can get away from the scale numbers, many take and rely only on measurements of their body and even if the scale is stalled or moves slowly, you are losing inches which means the body is starting to turn on and change and burn and create a much leaner version of you...........
Thanks so much for this info, very very helpful.0 -
I'm having a really hard time here. I feel like my metabolism must be awful. My calories are low, but every time I up them, I gain. What the heck am I doing wrong?0
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Bumping for later.0
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Knowing these numbers becomes particularly critical when we all hit & succeed at maintenance! It's part of the reason why so many falter in maintenance, too, & gradually gain weight back.0
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sprice20152015 wrote: »kmcosgrove115 wrote: »After posting and learning about BMR and TDEE from some great people on this forum, I finally got the full understanding of BMR and TDEE. I just emailed a friend at work all that I learned as we changed our lifestyle and eating at the same time - I thought a copy of my email may help those in the forum seeking a "dummies guide" to BMR and TDEE..............hope it helps!
Ok, now second, BMR and TDEE:
So in wanting to lose weight, people get confused and frustrated early on when doing a diet or making a lifestyle shift like being plant strong. Initially, esp on this way of eating, we all had big drops - much of that is due to inflammation from the bad food we were ingesting or water weight.
The mind set you have to force yourself into and reiterate is that realistically, weight should come off slow as your body re-learns how to get nutrients and burn off fat again. Your body does not care that you want to drop "x" amount of weight in so many months - it's only job is survival.
So, like many, I thought with my online tracking system thru MyFitnessPal.com, that I should listen to it's "recommendations" (and many docs say this too), to restrict not only portion size but amount of calorie intake to 1200 a day. The problem is that many of us require 1500 or more a day to simply live, to keep our heart beating, to make the brain work - at minimum we need 1500 or more given to us if we were lying in a coma in the hospital.
Given that fact, what we are told with 1200 cal / day is simply false and very detrimental to our body. Some call it "starvation mode" but a more accurate description would be "nutrient deficient." The body looks at that 1200 calories and says, ok, I need (in my case to get specific) 1529 a day to keep you living and breathing and you are giving me 1200, a 300 deficit.
So, in order to keep you living and breathing, again, body NOT caring about weight loss, the body will slow or stop some other systems (metabolism being the 1st it stops) and hang on to those 1200 calories b/c all it knows is that you are under-feeding it and so it must "hoard" that 1200, store it as fat and keep you alive. You essentially are stopping the metabolic process to a halt when you under eat.
If you can get your head around that concept, then it becomes easy to see, much like a cell phone needing to be charged to turn on and work, your body, your metabolism, NEEDS at minimum that 1529 (in my case) and MORE to really work efficiently, keep me alive AND burn and lose weight. That 1529 # is called "BMR" - basal metabolic rate.
To figure out what your individual BMR is, there are many online calculators - trust me I think I found them all. And although no two will be identical, as I ran my #'s, the results were fairly close to 1529. I read a very informative post on MFP reg this topic and the site they recommend is this:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/
And specifically, to get your most accurate BMR, they ask first, that you run the Military Body Fat Calculator:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/mbf/
That will require your:
sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
neck measurement (in inches)
waist measurement (in inches)
hip measurement (in inches)
When you submit this info, the system will generate your true body fat %. Jot that % down on a piece of paper, then go to their BMR calculator link at:
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/
And plug in:
age
sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
GOAL weight (in pounds)
and that body fat % you just wrote
Now, a caveat - for GOAL weight, they ask that you enter in your current weight again - the reason being that when you enter your true GOAL weight, the system will show you a BMR to eat at so that when you reach that GOAL, you are used to and continue to eat at that calorie / day. It will work and it is accurate however, the weight loss will be slow and many of us are not patient enough to do it that way.
When you enter your current weight as GOAL, it will generate what they call TDEE - total daily energy expenditure. THAT # is important as it tells you, taking into account your personal information, not only the minimum BMR to stay alive, but the amount of calories per day you need to MAINTAIN at the weight you are at RIGHT NOW.
The best way to lose weight a bit faster then the above with true GOAL weight AND still doing it at a healthy pace, is to take that TDEE # from the chart that will generate and less out a % which will give you an accurate amount to eat per day to lose weight.
On the chart will be multiple lines describing activity levels - as much as I work at a desk job, I have used a pedometer for the large corporation I work in along with kids and shuffling all day and can log in 5-7K in steps per day. So appearances say pick "desk job" but much again has been discussed on the activity level and the one common thread and mistake people make at this critical calculation is underestimating their activity level.
If you say you work out 1 hour a day maybe 2-3 times a week at most and consider that "little exercise," what do you do with the other 23 hours in your day? You work, walk, run kids here and there, chores around the house, etc.
So the mantra being said is unless you literally lay in bed all day every day, if you have little exercise but go to work and do other things that keep you moving in some way (even showering burns calories), everyone at the minimum should be selecting "light" activity or higher. So pick a truly accurate level and consider all the things you do all day.
So, let's do real life example:
my BMR is 1529 (I now know I must eat AT LEAST that per day minimum)
I work at desk job but again, I walk easily 5-7K steps a day with work and kids, so I look at the "light" activity line
my TDEE right now at my current weight is 2116 - that is the "light" activity line # for my measurements, stats, body fat %, etc for my weight RIGHT NOW (which will change) - if I ate 2116 every day my body would stay at the same weight - this is what you would eat to not change your weight
but like many, I want to lose - I love the plant strong health benefits for sure, but I do want to lose
what you do then is take your particular TDEE # (2116) from the chart and less out a %
the general rule of thumb is, if you want to lose:
5-10 pounds, less out 10%
10-20 pounds, less out 15%
20 or more pounds, less out 20%
anything higher in % is really for people who have undergone gastric surgeries and going higher could potentially put your body back in that "nutrient deficient" mode so 20% is about what most use as a healthy guide
now, 2116 x 20% would give me 423 - I deduct that 423 from 2116 and get:
1693
that 1693 is now my calories per day to eat that will not only maintain my BMR (which I know is 1529) but will also allow me to eat UNDER the 2116 TDEE for my weight right now - that concept is what they call "eat more to weigh less" and it goes contrary to what we all learned as far as losing weight - I am still learning to accept this as fact and EAT more.
So, now that has me eating 20% under 2116 to lose (1693) but ABOVE my BMR so that my body learns I am not starving it, that it should not "hoard" the calories and keep the fat and eventually the body will release the fat.
Many people looking to lose weight fall into this trap where they have eaten so little for so long that the body has to re-learn and reset the metabolism - in fact, some believe a true "reset" would be to eat at the TDEE # (2116) for 6 weeks or so and only THEN drop off a %.
Either way, knowing this exact # will surely get you to where you want to be - it's just that your body trying to survive may take a few weeks to understand you are not going to deprive it any more and it CAN let go of the fat as it understands it will always be fed and nourished to the point it is not panicked and storing it all.............make sense?
Where I am personally is going into 6 weeks plant strong (YAY!) and almost 2 weeks at my re-adjusted 1680 per day calorie - I did the 1200 and many days below that for those first few weeks so my body must re-learn.
I may have 4 weeks yet for my body to truly learn and let go of the fat and to burn all the time. It is hard b/c you want it NOW but gaining weight took a while and so will losing it. In fact, some have a slight gain while the metabolism is resetting so be warned, do not panic, it means the body is changing the way you need it to change to burn fat.
The body just needs the time to re-learn so, for me, I will wait the 6 weeks if needed, keep eating whole food plant based, ignoring the scale as much as I can and wait - it WILL drop off - it is logic, the body must and will change and let go eventually.
Last note on TDEE, as you lose weight, maybe every 5-10 lbs, return to the site that gives you the calculations and reassess your TDEE as the more you lose, the more that # will change and this way you are always eating right AT where you should and following the eating you need so you are never too far under and thwarting your body back into being nutrient deficient and stalled.
I have also noticed although I lost 13 lbs in about 5 weeks, the weight loss now is slower but I swear my shape is changing - dresses and pants fit that were too snug before, I see definition in my thigh and calf muscles that were not there - this is probably why if you can get away from the scale numbers, many take and rely only on measurements of their body and even if the scale is stalled or moves slowly, you are losing inches which means the body is starting to turn on and change and burn and create a much leaner version of you...........
Thanks lots for this info. However, I'm a bit confused. I understand the "eat more to weigh less" concept. Just uncomfortable with eating so many calories0 -
Oh, no. My whole msg now got cut0
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But I need help, anyone. I understand the " eat more to weigh less " concept. Just uncomfortable with eating so many calories0
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Bump0
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bump0
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