Just an opinion: Clean-eating vs IIFYM
Replies
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I have posted this article a couple of times but I think the section bolded is right on the money from my experience and from what I have seen, especially on MFP
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/All-or-Nothing Dieting & Eating Disorder Risk
In 1997, a general physician named Steven Bratman coined the term orthorexia nervosa [21], which he defines as, “an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food.” It reminds me of the counterproductive dietary perfectionism I’ve seen among many athletes, trainers, and coaches. One of the fundamental pitfalls of dichotomizing foods as good or bad, or clean or dirty, is that it can form a destructive relationship with food. This isn’t just an empty claim; it’s been seen in research. Smith and colleagues found that flexible dieting was associated with the absence of overeating, lower bodyweight, and the absence of depression and anxiety [22]. They also found that a strict all-or-nothing approach to dieting was associated with overeating and increased bodyweight. Similarly, Stewart and colleagues found that rigid dieting was associated with symptoms of an eating disorder, mood disturbances, and anxiety [23]. Flexible dieting was not highly correlated with these qualities. Although these are observational study designs with self-reported data, anyone who spends enough time among fitness buffs knows that these findings are not off the mark.0 -
Sorry for being naive here! What is IIFYM ??
As for clean eating, I interpret it as being pretty much any food that is NOT processed. I feel so much better without fueling my body all the chemicals in processed foods
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Sorry for being naive here! What is IIFYM ??
As for clean eating, I interpret it as being pretty much any food that is NOT processed. I feel so much better without fueling my body all the chemicals in processed foods
If it fits your macros.0 -
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I have a couple of relatives who are "clean eaters". All they ****ing talk about is food. And how much better their eating is then others around them. And that's really all they talk about. Go to a movie with them, they comment on everyone eating hot dogs, nachos, popcorn. Go to Disneyland, same thing.
I invite them to parties, but have to tell them that if they want their own food, they can bring it. I've personally had to tell them that they can't come if they are going to criticize how others are eating. Don't see how that's a "happy" life.
So yes, happiness is part of being healthy. "Clean" food doesn't do it alone.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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This is exactly the same expereience that I had with "clean eating".
Very well put.0 -
i am not finding restrticting my diet to be stressful, i'm finding it to be liberating, because i am freeing my mind from all of my pre conceived notions of what regular food is. i am getting opportunities to try all sorts of things i've never tried before, all sorts of different flavors i've never tasted, and it's awesome. my new hobby is nutrition, i read all of my nutrition labels, i also feel better too and i wouldn't trade my health for a cheeseburger any day! of course i have some serious digestive and health issues that i'm dealing with so other people may not be able to see where i'm coming from. eating a cheese burger or potato chips is a recipe for pain the next day for me. of course, i'm not going to tell other people what to eat, or that what i eat is better than what they eat, to each their own. i find that food is medicine that you take regardless and i'm finally starting to cure myself rather than poison myself haha.0
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I like to "eat clean" as best I can:
- I often cook my own foods and try to limit eating overly processed, preservative laden stuff.
- I don't do artificial sweeteners - my preference.
- I limit soy because of the GMO factor + it not being good for thyroid issues.
- I avoid MSG and HFCS.
That said, I know I'll never be a 100% clean eater - there are just too many foods I'll never be able to give up:
- Pizza
- Garlic wings
- Bacon
- Wine
- Fried Shrimp or Clam Strips
- Red Lobster Cheddar Bay Biscuits
- Oreos
...you get the picture. :laugh:
I also don't preach to others based on my consumption preferences, I really don't care what others' put into their mouths!
Agree^^ My eating is very similar.0 -
So in other words it's anecdotal? Because I can say the same with me eating IIFYM along with some crap food.I have all the proof that I need....I feel better, my workouts are better and it works for me. If I eat crap food...I feel like crap, my workouts are like crap and it doesn't work for me. That's all I need.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
If you're suffering from digestive/health issues then I can see the switch. The general population not suffering from it though doesn't have to worry much if they are meeting their daily macros/micros and staying within a reasonable calorie count.i am not finding restrticting my diet to be stressful, i'm finding it to be liberating, because i am freeing my mind from all of my pre conceived notions of what regular food is. i am getting opportunities to try all sorts of things i've never tried before, all sorts of different flavors i've never tasted, and it's awesome. my new hobby is nutrition, i read all of my nutrition labels, i also feel better too and i wouldn't trade my health for a cheeseburger any day! of course i have some serious digestive and health issues that i'm dealing with so other people may not be able to see where i'm coming from. eating a cheese burger or potato chips is a recipe for pain the next day for me. of course, i'm not going to tell other people what to eat, or that what i eat is better than what they eat, to each their own. i find that food is medicine that you take regardless and i'm finally starting to cure myself rather than poison myself haha.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
wait till some paleo people join the thread!Oh good, another chance to piss a friend off about clean eating.... :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
i for one , am not much proud of my mindset if i need processed sugary, , transfat saturated food to keep me mentally happy, an occasional treat is o.k. but would try to change the way i feel about junk food.0 -
So in other words it's anecdotal? Because I can say the same with me eating IIFYM along with some crap food.I have all the proof that I need....I feel better, my workouts are better and it works for me. If I eat crap food...I feel like crap, my workouts are like crap and it doesn't work for me. That's all I need.
Theirs might be anecdotal but I do get my relevant hormones tested regularly and after changing a lot of variables my current one ("clean diet" as you may call it) produces the best levels.
But then again this is only tested for myself but I'm fairly certain most would find improvement.0 -
I guess, essentially what I'm saying is that happier people live longer so do what makes you happy.
My mom was one of the happiest people I ever knew. She died of obesity related complications at 60 years old. So, my experiences vehemently disagree with your opinions on this issue.
I eat clean most of the time. I eat clean because I want to fuel my body with foods that work most effectively. I eat clean because I want to stop putting garbage into my body. I eat clean because I feel better when I do. And yes, I eat clean because I want to continue to maintain my health, fitness and hopefully live a long long life.
But see, I'm not saying eat whatever you want, and not control your weight, I'm saying that if you are monitoring your diet, it will not be effective if you stress yourself about what you are eating.0 -
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I agree with you for the most part. I personally do choose to eat few processed foods, and the majority of my diet is fruits and veggies. But that's because I love them. My motto (for me personally) is garbage in = garbage out. If I eat a lot of processed stuff and/or if I go out to eat a lot - I feel and look awful. But that doesn't work for everyone. I don't drink and I think "spending" calories on alcohol is a waste. However, other people love to drink alcohol! I don't like fried food b/c it upsets my stomach. So for the most part I would say I have a fairly healthy diet.
But those people who act like the world will stop spinning b/c someone ate something that isn't 100% "clean"? They are annoying. Today my coworker made cupcakes for a birthday party. 99% of the time I pass on work place sweets. Today I wanted a stinkin cupcake, so a coworker and I split one. It was delicious. And though it was only a few hours ago - I haven't dropped dead yet!
Now if someone continues to get frustrated that they can't lose weight no matter what they do and are staying within their guildelines? Maybe they can look at the food they eat and possibly make changes. But overall if they are for the most part getting a healthy diet? I say it's ok to enjoy a cookie every now and again.0 -
warning: do not express the belief that clean eaters are cult-like. :grumble:
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I like to "eat clean" as best I can:
- I often cook my own foods and try to limit eating overly processed, preservative laden stuff.
- I don't do artificial sweeteners - my preference.
- I limit soy because of the GMO factor + it not being good for thyroid issues.
- I avoid MSG and HFCS.
That said, I know I'll never be a 100% clean eater - there are just too many foods I'll never be able to give up:
- Pizza
- Garlic wings
- Bacon
- Wine
- Fried Shrimp or Clam Strips
- Red Lobster Cheddar Bay Biscuits
- Oreos
...you get the picture. :laugh:
I also don't preach to others based on my consumption preferences, I really don't care what others' put into their mouths!
Agree^^ My eating is very similar.
Ditto. I aim to make healthy choices and I think I do for the most part, but there are some things I will not give up.0 -
I found that eating healthier foods has made me want/like them a lot more. I rarely have cravings for unhealthier types of food anymore, and when I do indulge on the rare occasion I enjoy it but it's not hard to go back to healthy eating. I really honestly believe that deprivation is completely a viewpoint and can be changed. Eating healthier/cleaner is obviously a better choice as better input = better output IMO. I used to feel deprived because "I can't have this, or I can't have that" but it's not that you can NEVER have those unhealthy foods ever again, I just think that most people's idea of an occasional or moderate treat is skewed. In my opinion, it's all about making a healthy lifestyle what you want and changing your viewpoint on the foods you eat, there's no reason not getting to eat junk several times a month has to cause you psychological stress, it's just not a healthy way to think about food. I believe that the benefits of eating healthier STRONGLY outweigh the downfalls of possibly feeling restricted in the way you eat.:flowerforyou:0
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I'm starting to find the distinction, while an amusing intellectual debate that often isn't very intellectual, to be functionally meaningless, as I've never seen anyone eat clean continuously for life. If you cheat then you are basically saying it's okay sometimes which seems to be the fundamental basis for IIFYM arguments. Perhaps it's in the extent of cheating. Maybe for some 20% cheat is too much and they practice 5%, but the very idea that any amount of junk food is going to kill you is preposterous.0
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junk food is for fat people. if you don't wanna be fat, don't eat junk food. arguing won't change that.0
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................If you are following a macronutrient intake that is friendly for body composition you will be eating a lot of ‘clean’ foods by default because you will not be able to hit a protein, carb, fat, and fiber intake conducive to body composition improvement if all you eat are high sugar/fat foods. The point is it’s ok to have these foods in small amounts if you are still hitting your goal macronutrient intake."
http://www.shreddedknowledge.com/home/a-talk-with-the-doc-dr-layne-norton/
Totally agree there. I'm an IIFYM guy, but I eat pretty "clean" due to the fact that I have to in order to meet my macro goals. Most of my carbs come from fruit and veg and some whole grains...most of my protein is lean and most of my fats are of the unsaturated variety. In order to meet my macro goals, I have to keep things like sugary and salty processed foods and dairy to a minimum. I think the vast majority of IIFYMers do pretty much the same...we just don't get all bent out of shape over some gummy worms or that bowl of ice cream or whatever.0 -
So in other words it's anecdotal? Because I can say the same with me eating IIFYM along with some crap food.I have all the proof that I need....I feel better, my workouts are better and it works for me. If I eat crap food...I feel like crap, my workouts are like crap and it doesn't work for me. That's all I need.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sure and if that works for you...go for it. I'm not on MFP to do studies and be scientist about food and exercise and what not. I'm here to work on my goals and to do what works for me. Simple as that. Eating clean as much and as often as I can works for me. So, it is absolutely anecdotal....as it should be. My mom died at 60 of obesity related, poor diet related conditions that were completely avoidable. I feel better, stronger and healthier when I eat a much cleaner diet...and weigh less, have better blood work and generally am very healthy. So, I'll happily and healthily continue doing what works for me, anecdotal or not.
I just want to point out that my OP was anecdotal, but the point I was making was that if you can practice clean-eating without causing yourself undue stress, then it most likely will prolong your life. The same is true for IIFYM. It boils down to what works for you. But I do want to point out also that people don't always realize that their diet isn't working for them. The most obvious example is people who don't bother to monitor their diets at all.0 -
warning: do not express the belief that clean eaters are cult-like. :grumble:
Ha!! :noway:0 -
junk food is for fat people. if you don't wanna be fat, don't eat junk food. arguing won't change that.
Yep, that candy bar I had yesterday just made me gain all of the weight back that I lost OVERNIGHT.0 -
junk food is for fat people. if you don't wanna be fat, don't eat junk food. arguing won't change that.
Arguing won't but a dose of reality will. Anorexia kills.0 -
Anytime to start to drastically cut out a food group things can get tricky (hello Orthorexia). I eat what I want and just stay within my goals. I don't need the added stress of worrying about being perfect all the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa
(its wikipedia, so yes, I know it isn't 100% accurate. More for the people who don't know what orthorexia is)0 -
I found that eating healthier foods has made me want/like them a lot more. I rarely have cravings for unhealthier types of food anymore, and when I do indulge on the rare occasion I enjoy it but it's not hard to go back to healthy eating. I really honestly believe that deprivation is completely a viewpoint and can be changed. Eating healthier/cleaner is obviously a better choice as better input = better output IMO. I used to feel deprived because "I can't have this, or I can't have that" but it's not that you can NEVER have those unhealthy foods ever again, I just think that most people's idea of an occasional or moderate treat is skewed. In my opinion, it's all about making a healthy lifestyle what you want and changing your viewpoint on the foods you eat, there's no reason not getting to eat junk several times a month has to cause you psychological stress, it's just not a healthy way to think about food. I believe that the benefits of eating healthier STRONGLY outweigh the downfalls of possibly feeling restricted in the way you eat.:flowerforyou:
Excellent points!0 -
I'm starting to find the distinction, while an amusing intellectual debate that often isn't very intellectual, to be functionally meaningless, as I've never seen anyone eat clean continuously for life. If you cheat then you are basically saying it's okay sometimes which seems to be the fundamental basis for IIFYM arguments. Perhaps it's in the extent of cheating. Maybe for some 20% cheat is too much and they practice 5%, but the very idea that any amount of junk food is going to kill you is preposterous.
This is so spot-on!0 -
seems legit.junk food is for fat people. if you don't wanna be fat, don't eat junk food. arguing won't change that.0 -
I'm starting to find the distinction, while an amusing intellectual debate that often isn't very intellectual, to be functionally meaningless, as I've never seen anyone eat clean continuously for life. If you cheat then you are basically saying it's okay sometimes which seems to be the fundamental basis for IIFYM arguments. Perhaps it's in the extent of cheating. Maybe for some 20% cheat is too much and they practice 5%, but the very idea that any amount of junk food is going to kill you is preposterous.
That's like saying no one can ever say they eat healthy if they EVER eat something even remotely unhealthy. I don't think it's an "all in" or "not at all" idea. It's not really a logical statement.0 -
I go with IIFYM and then some. Life can be miserable enough sometimes without adding to it yourself.0
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