Do BMI's seem unrealistic to anyone else?
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QFTI agree with the following things:
1) For most of the population, BMI can be applied. This really isn't about looks, but about health indicators as mentioned before.
2) There are true exceptions; however, some people falsely think they are the exception. Just saying you're an athlete doesn't cut it... There are overweight athletes. (Think sumo wrestlers!)
3) Our perceptions of 'normal' and 'healthy' have changed as, as a society, we've gotten bigger, which influences how we interpret the BMI scale.
Personally, I find it frustrating when I'm talking to someone who thinks they are a normal weight, that BMI is a bunch of hooey, when their stomachs are sticking out further than their breasts. Really? C'mon. Also, clothing sizes are NOT a good indicator because there is a lot of variance with time and designers. It's no secret that more expensive brands will be more generous in attempt to flatter you and get to buy their product. Also, in general, sizes have become bigger over the last 50 years to accommodate our growing waistlines!
I'm by no means fat (5'5" 118ish). I feel skinny in America, but when I went to Europe-- oh boy-- I felt bigger, that's for sure. Americans have a funny view of healthy weights!0 -
Would it make you all happier if us "overweight cop-outs" just give in and say ok you're right, we're all a bunch of fatties and have no excuse but to be as tiny ad the BMI scale says?
In case you didn't notice we're on MFP for a REASON. TO GET HEALTHIER!
We're making an effort and making changes for the better! Have a little respect...0 -
I think BMI is outdated as a risk analysis tool, because we have better ways to measure lean body mass and body fat percentage and those are much more accurate.0
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I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
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For some, BMI is completely unrealistic. I am one of those individuals. When I get to around my goal weight, I actually look like I'm in the low to mid 100's but actually weigh in in the mid 200's. This is because of the VERY large bone frame, and dense bone structure. I also tend to have very dense muscles when I'm anywhere close to "in shape", but if I take the measurements for the hip-to-waist ratio along with my actual weight, I always come out well into the mid range, if not top end of over weight. I dread to think what I would look like if I were to actually get down to the "recommended" BMI weight of 160! I, personally, do not think that the anorexic look is a good look for me.
Every one of these posts is identical. Its pretty indicative of our culture... the self-delusion is incredible.
Agree, at 5'9" no one looks like they weigh in the mid 100's at 100 lbs heavier than that. It must be some kind of funhouse mirror being sold at Walmart that can give these illusions.0 -
Actually, it's been shown that BMI is no worse than skinfold tests and bioelectrical impedance. That's why we keep using it.
Well those are not destiny tests, I agree. I have no read any studies saying they are as inaccurate as BMI, I'll have to look that up.
Water displacement is one example of a destiny test.
I will throw this disclaimer though, I do feel that most people can fall into the healthy range of the BMI. It stops there though, there is nothing past that. When the BMI was made, there was no concept or understanding of what body fat actually does. Well, there was a basic understanding but not like we do today.
Technology improves and with technology our understanding and methods are improved upon. There is no reason to limit ourselves to what we THINK is the right answer.0 -
When I was twelve I began to get worried about my weight, and I calculated my BMI. It said I was overweight. I wasn't at all but it led me into me not wanting to leave the house to play with my friends, it was a nasty phase. The BMI calculator ONLY takes into account your weight and your hight. Really the best way to know if you are at a healthy weight is going to the doctor.
This reminds me of why I love my endocrinologist. He called me skinny! LOL0 -
I just want to make it clear that, while I don't think using BMI is a good thing, and I hope never to be in the "healthy range" because of my muscle building efforts, I am, without a doubt, small-framed.
I do have plenty of fat to lose but, amazingly, I am aware of that even though I ignore BMI & don't care about the number on the scale. Actually, none of the numbers I can think of are very reliable or important for fat-loss. In the end it is not really about meeting numeric ideals. It is about being as healthy as we can be & happy with how we look & feel. And if it is not about this it should be.0 -
BMI measurement came out in the 1800s. I think science has come a way regarding human phisiology since then, it's amazing to me that BMI has somehow remained a standard.
We, however, have not evolved since then. It's remained standard because its a good metric to apply to overall populations.
What?! No.... has nothing to do with evolution.
It's remained a standard because not everybody can afford to have density tests performed on their bodies every week. So doctors give them something that is easily calculated. Simplicity means more people will do it. Rough BF% can be done pretty damn close just no one bothers to do it or does it wrong.
I doubt BF% much more indicative of health at population level than BMI is. You'd still have those for which it doesn't mesh such as anorexics, people with little body fat because they are sickly and dying, people with too much fat who register a good BF% because they have a lot of both fat and muscle, etc. No population based tool will be without ouliers. It's the nature of the beast.
Statistically I think waist to height measurement has the most correlation to health risk. Where you store fat is as important as how much you store.0 -
BMI measurement came out in the 1800s. I think science has come a way regarding human phisiology since then, it's amazing to me that BMI has somehow remained a standard.
We, however, have not evolved since then. It's remained standard because its a good metric to apply to overall populations.
What?! No.... has nothing to do with evolution.
It's remained a standard because not everybody can afford to have density tests performed on their bodies every week. So doctors give them something that is easily calculated. Simplicity means more people will do it. Rough BF% can be done pretty damn close just no one bothers to do it or does it wrong.
I doubt BF% much more indicative of health at population level than BMI is. You'd still have those for which it doesn't mesh such as anorexics, people with little body fat because they are sickly and dying, people with too much fat who register a good BF% because they have a lot of both fat and muscle, etc. No population based tool will be without ouliers. It's the nature of the beast.
Statistically I think waist to height measurement has the most correlation to health risk. Where you store fat is as important as how much you store.
Now you are just getting into body composition which is something else that BMI does not take in effect. Anorexia is diagnosed in a much different manner, not BMI. The sick and dying are not compared to BMI unless it's a glancing factor, they have other things to worry about.
And you can't say statically and I think. You either have them or not and I love to see those statistics.0 -
According to my body type. 20 pounds would do me good. 40 would kill me. That would have me in about a size 0. Too dag on skinny for a woman my age.
Not sure what you're basing that on or where you get your sizing info. Like I said before I'm pretty much your height and age, 5'2" and 55 yrs old. I weigh 115 lbs, wear a size 4 or 6 and don't look anorexic or sick at all. I'd have to lose another 10 lbs or more to get into a 0 and at that would look unhealthy. My BF% is 19 and I'm well muscled, a runner and a cyclist. Once again it's a perception issue of what you think you look like or would look like.
I think your and your co workers problem is that the word obese conjures up thoughts of hugely fat people which it has come to mean in our society. Obese is a medical term for someone of a BMI or height to weight ratio in a certain category. What you probably think of as looking obese is most likely someone who is well into the morbidly obese category. It's all a label and how you want to perceive it.
I'm really seeing a pattern here of those who view being on the heavier side of normal as being the healthier look. I think it's mostly that we are now surrounded by a majority of overweight people so if you are smaller you look out of place. We went to a dinner last night and I was by far the smallest woman in the room. That doesn't mean I'm underweight because everyone else was overweight.0 -
I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.0 -
I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.
I think a lot of doctors have gotten tired of being ignored, or people getting upset when they say something about their weight, so they have just given up saying anything.0 -
LOL!! We graduated from the same university. Whats that say about you? You have no clue what you are talking about, once you reach your goal weight according to BMI and look like a jelly fish come back and let me know what you think of BMI. I bet anything you stop your weight loss well short of what BMI says you should weigh.I was considered overweight according to BMI in this pic.. BMI is not only a joke but dangerous!! I have seen countless teenage girls on here posting about trying to get under 110-115 lbs because thats where BMI says they should be and they dont have another once of fat to lose looking at their pics.
110-115 pounds seems like a perfectly acceptable weight for some teenage girls especially if they are under 5'5". I'm not saying that it's perfect for everyone or that there won't be some outliers but to completely dismiss it as a joke or even dangerous is, frankly, pretty stupid.0 -
LOL!! We graduated from the same university. Whats that say about you? You have no clue what you are talking about, once you reach your goal weight according to BMI and look like a jelly fish come back and let me know what you think of BMI. I bet anything you stop your weight loss well short of what BMI says you should weigh.I was considered overweight according to BMI in this pic.. BMI is not only a joke but dangerous!! I have seen countless teenage girls on here posting about trying to get under 110-115 lbs because thats where BMI says they should be and they dont have another once of fat to lose looking at their pics.
110-115 pounds seems like a perfectly acceptable weight for some teenage girls especially if they are under 5'5". I'm not saying that it's perfect for everyone or that there won't be some outliers but to completely dismiss it as a joke or even dangerous is, frankly, pretty stupid.
Well that was uncalled for.0 -
Would it make you all happier if us "overweight cop-outs" just give in and say ok you're right, we're all a bunch of fatties and have no excuse but to be as tiny ad the BMI scale says?
In case you didn't notice we're on MFP for a REASON. TO GET HEALTHIER!
We're making an effort and making changes for the better! Have a little respect...
Thank you for saying this. There is so much negativity going on in this board, it sucks.
But thank you to the BMI advocate that just brought up Waist to Height Ratio. This is quickly replacing BMI as the standard for health with lots of research to back it up.
Mine is 0.46 which is right in the healthy zone, which supports that my BMI of 28 isn't telling the whole story0 -
Personally, I do think our perception has changed and where we live is how we define a "healthy weight".
Here in this town, I've actually had people ask if I am ill because they think I'm too small now... In the majority of the US I am probably average, and in some countries I would be considered overweight in comparison.
Bottom line is, the BMI is a good guideline. One you could use coupled with BF%. If you feel that you would be unattractive at a healthy weight range according to that scale, then choose something else or just outside of it. But just because you feel that, the weight wouldn't be right for you, doesn't mean it's not a healthy weight or that it's wildly inaccurate. The BMI isn't about looks.
Most people get a pretty big range to work with to account for frame size as well. I have 115 lbs of lean mass but the lowest on the BMI is 110 for me (so I obviously don't shoot for the lowest number) and the high is 140. That's a pretty big weight range that would suit a variety of people of the same height. It really is perception and few exceptions.0 -
According to my body type. 20 pounds would do me good. 40 would kill me. That would have me in about a size 0. Too dag on skinny for a woman my age.
Not sure what you're basing that on or where you get your sizing info. Like I said before I'm pretty much your height and age, 5'2" and 55 yrs old. I weigh 115 lbs, wear a size 4 or 6 and don't look anorexic or sick at all. I'd have to lose another 10 lbs or more to get into a 0 and at that would look unhealthy. My BF% is 19 and I'm well muscled, a runner and a cyclist. Once again it's a perception issue of what you think you look like or would look like.
I think your and your co workers problem is that the word obese conjures up thoughts of hugely fat people which it has come to mean in our society. Obese is a medical term for someone of a BMI or height to weight ratio in a certain category. What you probably think of as looking obese is most likely someone who is well into the morbidly obese category. It's all a label and how you want to perceive it.
I'm really seeing a pattern here of those who view being on the heavier side of normal as being the healthier look. I think it's mostly that we are now surrounded by a majority of overweight people so if you are smaller you look out of place. We went to a dinner last night and I was by far the smallest woman in the room. That doesn't mean I'm underweight because everyone else was overweight.
40 pounds is a lot of weight to lose. For anyone. I am overweight yes. 20 pounds would have me looking really good. I know that. 40 would be too much. I want curves. but that doesn't mean I want to be fat either. Nor do I want to be skinny. I want to look fit. 20 pounds coupled with Insanity will do that for me. Once I am there (hopefully at the end of insanity in 5 weeks) and I can figure out how to post pics I will revisit this.0 -
I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.
I bet they have told him to lose weight. He is telling you they haven't0 -
I dunno, I would hope my doctor told me to lose weight if it was affecting my health.0
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I dunno, I would hope my doctor told me to lose weight if it was affecting my health.
When 67% of your patients are overweight, you probably stop remembering to mention it since it pretty much goes without saying these days... that, and im sure plenty of people give them **** about it based on the reactions in this thread.0 -
According to my BMI, I have ALWAYS been overweight... Even when I was unpleasantly thin from a stomach parasite. My body may have been a slender size 4, but I could not keep anything down for 3, almost 4 months. About a year after my stomach parasite, I had gained 10 pounds, and was a comfortable size 6, whose BMI was overweight. Currently, I am trying to get back to my size 6 weight because I KNOW that my body is at a comfortable and healthy size, even when my BMI says otherwise. Also, my CURRENT waist to hip ratio is .43... which is definitely considered "healthy." 20 pounds ago, my BMI was closer to the obese range, but my waist to hip ratio was .48.
For me personally, I do not find the BMI correct. I am not going to be a weight that is unpleasant for me to maintain in order for a formula to consider me "healthy."0 -
BMI measurement came out in the 1800s. I think science has come a way regarding human phisiology since then, it's amazing to me that BMI has somehow remained a standard.
We, however, have not evolved since then. It's remained standard because its a good metric to apply to overall populations.
What?! No.... has nothing to do with evolution.
It's remained a standard because not everybody can afford to have density tests performed on their bodies every week. So doctors give them something that is easily calculated. Simplicity means more people will do it. Rough BF% can be done pretty damn close just no one bothers to do it or does it wrong.
I doubt BF% much more indicative of health at population level than BMI is. You'd still have those for which it doesn't mesh such as anorexics, people with little body fat because they are sickly and dying, people with too much fat who register a good BF% because they have a lot of both fat and muscle, etc. No population based tool will be without ouliers. It's the nature of the beast.
Statistically I think waist to height measurement has the most correlation to health risk. Where you store fat is as important as how much you store.
Now you are just getting into body composition which is something else that BMI does not take in effect. Anorexia is diagnosed in a much different manner, not BMI. The sick and dying are not compared to BMI unless it's a glancing factor, they have other things to worry about.
And you can't say statically and I think. You either have them or not and I love to see those statistics.
The latest statistics I've seen, which was over a year ago (hense, the "I think"), say that waist to height is the best measurement for disease risk.
BMI is a population based tool and applies to all adults - male, female, athlete, dying, anorexic, etc. So would BF% if it were to replace BMI for use in general guidelines based on population data. In a population, no tool is going to work for everyone.0 -
I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.
I bet they have told him to lose weight. He is telling you they haven't
Nope, sat with him through appointments, even ask two different doctors while we were there if they thought he should lose some weight. They bumbled around the subject and never said yes, that would be a great idea.0 -
I'd say it's a good guideline for people that aren't athletes or body builders. There will always be exceptions.0
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I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.
I bet they have told him to lose weight. He is telling you they haven't
Nope, sat with him through appointments, even ask two different doctors while we were there if they thought he should lose some weight. They bumbled around the subject and never said yes, that would be a great idea.
They are probably afraid. So many people are in the lawsuit business now adays. doesn't pay to give suggestions.0 -
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How accurate is the WHR, though?
I have a typical hourglass figure, and my WHR is 0.76.
That's not the full picture, though. My BF% is 27-28. If you looked at just my arms and legs, you'd estimate my BF% at 20 at the most. That's how much of my weight I carry in my midsection, literally almost all of it. So am I at risk because I carry all my weight in my midsection, or am I safe because of the way it's distributed there?0 -
Exactly. Which goes to show the issue this country has in terms of perception of what is and isn't a healthy weight.I am definitely not obese. No doctor has ever told me i had too lose weight either, but bmi says im obese. The skinniest i have been as well was when I was 20 lbs less and i didnt eat and did waaayyyy toooooo much partying. I was sickly! I dunno though... Maybe i am morbidly obese...
Just because no doctor told you to lose weight doesn't mean anything. My husband is obese, has high blood pressure, sleep apnea and acid reflux issues. No doctor has ever told him to lose weight. They give him meds, a CPAP machine and told him to sleep on a wedge. 75 lbs would probably cure most of it but no one ever says that to him so he thinks he must be just fine.
I bet they have told him to lose weight. He is telling you they haven't
Nope, sat with him through appointments, even ask two different doctors while we were there if they thought he should lose some weight. They bumbled around the subject and never said yes, that would be a great idea.
They are probably afraid. So many people are in the lawsuit business now adays. doesn't pay to give suggestions.0 -
How accurate is the WHR, though?
I have a typical hourglass figure, and my WHR is 0.76.
That's not the full picture, though. My BF% is 27-28. If you looked at just my arms and legs, you'd estimate my BF% at 20 at the most. That's how much of my weight I carry in my midsection, literally almost all of it. So am I at risk because I carry all my weight in my midsection, or am I safe because of the way it's distributed there?
Hun if your BMR, WHR and body fat are all in "bad" ranges... at some point its probably not that all the metrics are off...0
This discussion has been closed.
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