Monsanto Protection Act

mrphil86

Says the guy who didn't believe you could sue a supplement company because they weren't regulated by the FDA because they had a one sentence line on the bottle.

ah damn, before i go - i did some research on that:

It's against the law for companies to claim that any supplement can prevent, treat, or cure any disease except some nutrient-deficiency conditions. But in the past two years, the Federal Trade Commission has filed or settled 30 cases against supplement marketers, charging that they made exactly those kinds of claims.

so as long as the supplement makes no claims, you've got no legal standing (in the case of most herbal supplements)

for other supplements like gainers/weight loss/pre-workout drinks etc, they're playing with fire and they know it, but it's a game they'll play every single time because they make way more money than they have to pay out in settlements. ****ed up, but reality.

so we were both right. you CAN sue supplement manufacturers if they make claims and the product doesn't live up to those claims OR if the product fails to warn of potential risks, but not if there is adequate warning and no claim being made (again, this is common on most herbal supplements)

Not exactly, that is a suit brought by the FTC but any party can bring a civil lawsuit for any reason. The makers of ephedra settled a lawsuit because the jury was likely to award major damages against them.

Exactly. You are wrong again Reddy. You can put all the freaking warnings you want. You can make no claims. You can still be sued.

And you'll probably lose unless it's a high profile class action suit in the public eye. They'd rather settle in suh cases than deal with drawn out legal battles.

So it wouldn't be thrown out of court because you can't sue products that aren't regulated?

Not for that reason, no.

Well. Played. :drinker:

Confuzzled4ever

Sure and with them allowing GMO to occur.. they put the little farmers completely upside down. They can't win and we the people lose.. eat or starve.. better check the seeds you initially buy to plant.. around 80% of soybeans and 70% of corn are GMO seeds.. good luck getting the real stuff. Esp if they deregulate it and let them take over. It will allow Monsanto a real monopoly as no one can beat them.

I do participate in a co-op and shop at natural grocers and farm markets.. i don't eat 100% organic, but I am getting there.

It's very expensive, at least where I live, to buy all organic all the time. I do vote with my dollar, but my dollars alone aren't going to make enough difference, and in the meantime, I'm going broke. I'm so frustrated!! If everyone would buy SOME organic we could start to see some changes, and hopefully organics would come down in price a bit.

They will only go up if Monsanto and those like him aren't stopped. The influx of GMO seeds means the true organic farmer is being pushed out of the market. Their crops take longer to grow, are effected by weather and pests and will rot quicker. They are also healthier for our bodies and healthier for the economy. My guy and are are going to have a garden once we get a house. I have a teeny patio and he doesn't even have that. i grew up eating foods I grew myself at home.. I was never sick like my friends and still barring that one episode in November I am still healthier then all of them. (and honestly the more I research everything surrounding that, the more I point the blame to food)

CoachReddy

Says the guy who didn't believe you could sue a supplement company because they weren't regulated by the FDA because they had a one sentence line on the bottle.

ah damn, before i go - i did some research on that:

It's against the law for companies to claim that any supplement can prevent, treat, or cure any disease except some nutrient-deficiency conditions. But in the past two years, the Federal Trade Commission has filed or settled 30 cases against supplement marketers, charging that they made exactly those kinds of claims.

so as long as the supplement makes no claims, you've got no legal standing (in the case of most herbal supplements)

for other supplements like gainers/weight loss/pre-workout drinks etc, they're playing with fire and they know it, but it's a game they'll play every single time because they make way more money than they have to pay out in settlements. ****ed up, but reality.

so we were both right. you CAN sue supplement manufacturers if they make claims and the product doesn't live up to those claims OR if the product fails to warn of potential risks, but not if there is adequate warning and no claim being made (again, this is common on most herbal supplements)

Not exactly, that is a suit brought by the FTC but any party can bring a civil lawsuit for any reason. The makers of ephedra settled a lawsuit because the jury was likely to award major damages against them.

Exactly. You are wrong again Reddy. You can put all the freaking warnings you want. You can make no claims. You can still be sued.

And you'll probably lose unless it's a high profile class action suit in the public eye. They'd rather settle in suh cases than deal with drawn out legal battles.

So it wouldn't be thrown out of court because you can't sue products that aren't regulated?

Not for that reason, no.

Well. Played. :drinker:

Dude please. Some of us are willing to see the flaw in our own arguments and willing to admit when we're wrong. I was wrong about not being able to sue non regulated companies.

Still waiting to hear your interpretation of the law.

mrphil86

Sure and with them allowing GMO to occur.. they put the little farmers completely upside down. They can't win and we the people lose.. eat or starve.. better check the seeds you initially buy to plant.. around 80% of soybeans and 70% of corn are GMO seeds.. good luck getting the real stuff. Esp if they deregulate it and let them take over. It will allow Monsanto a real monopoly as no one can beat them.

I do participate in a co-op and shop at natural grocers and farm markets.. i don't eat 100% organic, but I am getting there.

It's very expensive, at least where I live, to buy all organic all the time. I do vote with my dollar, but my dollars alone aren't going to make enough difference, and in the meantime, I'm going broke. I'm so frustrated!! If everyone would buy SOME organic we could start to see some changes, and hopefully organics would come down in price a bit.

They will only go up if Monsanto and those like him aren't stopped. The influx of GMO seeds means the true organic farmer is being pushed out of the market. Their crops take longer to grow, are effected by weather and pests and will rot quicker. They are also healthier for our bodies and healthier for the economy. My guy and are are going to have a garden once we get a house. I have a teeny patio and he doesn't even have that. i grew up eating foods I grew myself at home.. I was never sick like my friends and still barring that one episode in November I am still healthier then all of them. (and honestly the more I research everything surrounding that, the more I point the blame to food)

I grew up in small towns in Idaho. We have tons of what you like to call "organic" foods because we have A LOT of farms there.

But guess what, a lot of them use Monsanto seeds. A lot of farmers enjoy the benefits they bring. I'm not sure how your reasoning is that it also helps the economy since farmers have a higher yield with them.

mrphil86

Says the guy who didn't believe you could sue a supplement company because they weren't regulated by the FDA because they had a one sentence line on the bottle.

ah damn, before i go - i did some research on that:

It's against the law for companies to claim that any supplement can prevent, treat, or cure any disease except some nutrient-deficiency conditions. But in the past two years, the Federal Trade Commission has filed or settled 30 cases against supplement marketers, charging that they made exactly those kinds of claims.

so as long as the supplement makes no claims, you've got no legal standing (in the case of most herbal supplements)

for other supplements like gainers/weight loss/pre-workout drinks etc, they're playing with fire and they know it, but it's a game they'll play every single time because they make way more money than they have to pay out in settlements. ****ed up, but reality.

so we were both right. you CAN sue supplement manufacturers if they make claims and the product doesn't live up to those claims OR if the product fails to warn of potential risks, but not if there is adequate warning and no claim being made (again, this is common on most herbal supplements)

Not exactly, that is a suit brought by the FTC but any party can bring a civil lawsuit for any reason. The makers of ephedra settled a lawsuit because the jury was likely to award major damages against them.

Exactly. You are wrong again Reddy. You can put all the freaking warnings you want. You can make no claims. You can still be sued.

And you'll probably lose unless it's a high profile class action suit in the public eye. They'd rather settle in suh cases than deal with drawn out legal battles.

So it wouldn't be thrown out of court because you can't sue products that aren't regulated?

Not for that reason, no.

Well. Played. :drinker:

Dude please. Some of us are willing to see the flaw in our own arguments and willing to admit when we're wrong. I was wrong about not being able to sue non regulated companies.

Still waiting to hear your interpretation of the law.

Holy crap. I am not going to take the time to copy and paste the definitions of each word to you.

EDIT: Don't try to detract from the fact you completely waffled.

EshaS30

*Bump*

qsusanevans

It's been shown that GMO wheat is the cause of gluten allergies and celliac (sp?) disease.. so yes.. let not even hold them liable for the harm they knowingly cause

Not to mention it takes away the power of the supreme court and the right for people to sue.

O rly? Care to substantiate that?

qsusanevans

It's been shown that GMO wheat is the cause of gluten allergies and celliac (sp?) disease.. so yes.. let not even hold them liable for the harm they knowingly cause

??? Gluten allergies and celliac disease Way pre date GMO grains. There is no cause and effect here. I''m not for GMO foods, but get your facts straight. Wheat (or any grain that has gluten) causes gluten allergies. Regardless if organic or GMO or pesticide filled.

Confuzzled4ever

Sure and with them allowing GMO to occur.. they put the little farmers completely upside down. They can't win and we the people lose.. eat or starve.. better check the seeds you initially buy to plant.. around 80% of soybeans and 70% of corn are GMO seeds.. good luck getting the real stuff. Esp if they deregulate it and let them take over. It will allow Monsanto a real monopoly as no one can beat them.

I do participate in a co-op and shop at natural grocers and farm markets.. i don't eat 100% organic, but I am getting there.

It's very expensive, at least where I live, to buy all organic all the time. I do vote with my dollar, but my dollars alone aren't going to make enough difference, and in the meantime, I'm going broke. I'm so frustrated!! If everyone would buy SOME organic we could start to see some changes, and hopefully organics would come down in price a bit.

They will only go up if Monsanto and those like him aren't stopped. The influx of GMO seeds means the true organic farmer is being pushed out of the market. Their crops take longer to grow, are effected by weather and pests and will rot quicker. They are also healthier for our bodies and healthier for the economy. My guy and are are going to have a garden once we get a house. I have a teeny patio and he doesn't even have that. i grew up eating foods I grew myself at home.. I was never sick like my friends and still barring that one episode in November I am still healthier then all of them. (and honestly the more I research everything surrounding that, the more I point the blame to food)

I grew up in small towns in Idaho. We have tons of what you like to call "organic" foods because we have A LOT of farms there.

But guess what, a lot of them use Monsanto seeds. A lot of farmers enjoy the benefits they bring. I'm not sure how your reasoning is that it also helps the economy since farmers have a higher yield with them.

If they used GMO seeds, they are not allowed to call themselves organic.. I'll repost the link..

Just good info on what organic is:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5096493

It will benefit the economy because the small rural farmer will be able to sell his product at a reasonable price, but not if GMO has monopoly.

mrphil86

Sure and with them allowing GMO to occur.. they put the little farmers completely upside down. They can't win and we the people lose.. eat or starve.. better check the seeds you initially buy to plant.. around 80% of soybeans and 70% of corn are GMO seeds.. good luck getting the real stuff. Esp if they deregulate it and let them take over. It will allow Monsanto a real monopoly as no one can beat them.

I do participate in a co-op and shop at natural grocers and farm markets.. i don't eat 100% organic, but I am getting there.

It's very expensive, at least where I live, to buy all organic all the time. I do vote with my dollar, but my dollars alone aren't going to make enough difference, and in the meantime, I'm going broke. I'm so frustrated!! If everyone would buy SOME organic we could start to see some changes, and hopefully organics would come down in price a bit.

They will only go up if Monsanto and those like him aren't stopped. The influx of GMO seeds means the true organic farmer is being pushed out of the market. Their crops take longer to grow, are effected by weather and pests and will rot quicker. They are also healthier for our bodies and healthier for the economy. My guy and are are going to have a garden once we get a house. I have a teeny patio and he doesn't even have that. i grew up eating foods I grew myself at home.. I was never sick like my friends and still barring that one episode in November I am still healthier then all of them. (and honestly the more I research everything surrounding that, the more I point the blame to food)

I grew up in small towns in Idaho. We have tons of what you like to call "organic" foods because we have A LOT of farms there.

But guess what, a lot of them use Monsanto seeds. A lot of farmers enjoy the benefits they bring. I'm not sure how your reasoning is that it also helps the economy since farmers have a higher yield with them.

If they used GMO seeds, they are not allowed to call themselves organic.. I'll repost the link..

Just good info on what organic is:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5096493

It will benefit the economy because the small rural farmer will be able to sell his product at a reasonable price, but not if GMO has monopoly.

Ugh. I quoted organic for a reason.

And you seriously think that small farms have it bad? Pretty sure all the ones around here using Monsanto's products are doing pretty good. They even have their own stores everywhere.

Confuzzled4ever

It's been shown that GMO wheat is the cause of gluten allergies and celliac (sp?) disease.. so yes.. let not even hold them liable for the harm they knowingly cause

??? Gluten allergies and celliac disease Way pre date GMO grains. There is no cause and effect here. I''m not for GMO foods, but get your facts straight. Wheat (or any grain that has gluten) causes gluten allergies. Regardless if organic or GMO or pesticide filled.

Yes it was established pages ago that there is only a correlation and no proof to that. but since the wheat, barely, soy etc.. that we ate 50 years ago has been genetically engineered and genetically modified to such an extent that it's basically a different plant all together, I completley believe its the reason so many people are now sensitive or allergic. (I also think a lot of diseases are caused or cured by by the foods we choose to eat).

Confuzzled4ever

Don't be so obtuse. You know exactly what I am saying. It's use the GMO whether you want to or not or face the real consequence of your farm going out of business. It's exactly the thing that is terrible for the economy. I don't know what definition you use as organic. but it seems to differ from mine and the one that is generally accepted by everyone. I even posted the link, so you and everyone can know what I mean by organic.

mrphil86

Don't be so obtuse. You know exactly what I am saying. It's use the GMO whether you want to or not or face the real consequence of your farm going out of business. It's exactly the thing that is terrible for the economy. I don't know what definition you use as organic. but it seems to differ from mine and the one that is generally accepted by everyone. I even posted the link, so you and everyone can know what I mean by organic.

They've been in business for generations and are still pretty strong.

How exactly do they go out of business?

mrphil86

I'm pretty tired of this so I'll leave it at this.

Yes - GMO are linked to bad things
Yes - water has been linked to serial killers as all have admitted to drink it.
No - proper study has been performed on GMO's

Yes - there is protection in the "Monsanto Protection Act"
No - it does not protect them from liability

Yes - you will be able to still choose "Organic" or not
Yes - it was overblown same as the last time it came up

No - the world did not end because of it

Confuzzled4ever

Don't be so obtuse. You know exactly what I am saying. It's use the GMO whether you want to or not or face the real consequence of your farm going out of business. It's exactly the thing that is terrible for the economy. I don't know what definition you use as organic. but it seems to differ from mine and the one that is generally accepted by everyone. I even posted the link, so you and everyone can know what I mean by organic.

They've been in business for generations and are still pretty strong.

How exactly do they go out of business?

Because they are *not* organic.. they are using the GMO seeds which means they are *not* organic. They can keep their prices competitive to the other non-organic markets. Basic economics.

What do you think constitutes organic? I find people have different ideas of what organic means.

The point of my post was to make people aware as to what is going on with their food, which is arguably the most important aspect of life, and to hopefully open some eyes to what is going on in the political world that does affect them. GMO is bad for our bodies.

ETA; Well i'll stop responding to you after that post. serial killers. *sigh* If you're going to mock it and not add anything constructive then I don't have time for you.

jjrichard83

This is what I don't understand. Americans are so patriotic, yet get shafted year in and year out from their country officials. They stole your gold, stole your freedoms, lied to you about many war crimes they've done, used excessive propaganda against it's people, allowed unhealthy food practices, pollution practices, etc. They can't even separate church and state which is horrible. Land of the free my butt.

They get away with these BS laws because the country is lazy. Power in numbers- fight the BS laws - support Non-GMO foods. Problem is too many are already brainwashed, and majority doesn't care. It's sad, but true.

The country owes you nothing. If anything, you owe it to the country to not let those in power ruin it for future generations like the last generation did for us.

Acg67

*sigh*

I wash and vinegar wash my fruits and veggies.. I'm not ignorant to how crops are cultivated.. i grew up doing it.

You may play devils advocate all you want, but if your basis of argument is *you are ignorant because your view is different then mine* then really exit the thread now as you bring nothing to this conversation..

My views may be too "radical" for you, but they are just as valid.

Anyway.. regarding the GMO.. I want the choice of what I put into my body to be mine and I want the constitutionally protected right to initiate due process if something someone else does to me, esp if it's not disclosed and/or without my knowledge, harms me. I'm not naive enough to think that enough people will speak out in order to change things.. Unfortunately people have been taught by the government that their voice doesn't matter. If the entire country would exercise their right to vote we'd have a different country. If people would exercise their right to petition and peacefully assemble and do it correctly we might see a change. Of course. he already signed into law HR 347 restricting this right.. although he didn't have the authority to do so.

Also.. we don't know what they inject into the seeds? What if it's something with fish oil? (i'm allergic, to impure fish oil) I can't go after them? (Of course i doubt that would be in there.. but my point is the same)

Wake up.

The basis of the argument against you, is that you simply have been making things up that have no basis in reality

"Also Monsanto is a very large contributor to the presidential campaign..and he's the head of the FDA.. Conflict of interest much?? Food for thought.. (pun intended) "

"It's been shown that GMO wheat is the cause of gluten allergies and celliac (sp?) disease.. so yes.. let not even hold them liable for the harm they knowingly cause "

Brad805

[/quote]
They can keep their prices competitive to the other non-organic markets. Basic economics.
[/quote]

Not quite. Farming has went from small business to big business. I grew up on a family farm, and it used to be in the neighborhood of 3000acres. Between my two brothers now they farm almost 20,000acres. That was not just because they wanted to. That was out of necessity to compete and keep the farm. The little family farms have dropped off because the input costs are way too high. My oldest brother drops $2mil every spring putting in his crop and needs $3mil in equipment to put it in the ground. Those acres they have are not free either. That land runs in the range of $1,000 to $2,000+ per acre. I can assure you, the bank wants to get paid each year. I am sure you can find many little organic farmers, but they are struggling to make ends meet and they provide a fraction of the product to the market each year. Organic foods cost more to grow because they yield less and cost almost the same to put in the ground. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. I am not going to get into a debate about the pro's and cons of GMO. Personally, I do not think I have (nor anyone else ITT for that matter from what I have read) the knowledge of both sides of the argument to discuss the technical aspects of GMO for a proper debate. The key reason Monsanto fights for this type of legislation is the media overshadows any of the good things that have came out of GMO. I am not saying it is all good, but there are many good things. With any engineering project (I am an engineer) we learn things as by experimenting. I am sure some of the earlier seeds might have had some negative aspects, but I bet if you compare today's seeds to those you will find they are constantly working to improve them. If you want GMO stickers on your food, you are in for a shock. It will all get the stickers. Corn, canola, wheat, barley, and oats all come in GMO forms.

I also have another friend that buys and sells grains. He has bought organic grains off farmers. It is some of the dirtiest grain he ever buys. The rules around what classifies as being organic are interesting.

NewLIFEstyle4ME

This is what I don't understand. Americans are so patriotic, yet get shafted year in and year out from their country officials. They stole your gold, stole your freedoms, lied to you about many war crimes they've done, used excessive propaganda against it's people, allowed unhealthy food practices, pollution practices, etc. They can't even separate church and state which is horrible. Land of the free my butt.

They get away with these BS laws because the country is lazy. Power in numbers- fight the BS laws - support Non-GMO foods. Problem is too many are already brainwashed, and majority doesn't care. It's sad, but true.

The country owes you nothing. If anything, you owe it to the country to not let those in power ruin it for future generations like the last generation did for us.

:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

CoachReddy

This is what I don't understand. Americans are so patriotic, yet get shafted year in and year out from their country officials. They stole your gold, stole your freedoms, lied to you about many war crimes they've done, used excessive propaganda against it's people, allowed unhealthy food practices, pollution practices, etc. They can't even separate church and state which is horrible. Land of the free my butt.

They get away with these BS laws because the country is lazy. Power in numbers- fight the BS laws - support Non-GMO foods. Problem is too many are already brainwashed, and majority doesn't care. It's sad, but true.

The country owes you nothing. If anything, you owe it to the country to not let those in power ruin it for future generations like the last generation did for us.

'murica

yeah man, couldn't agree more.