Body pump as weight training ?

queenbea77

I do Body Pump 2x a week (M & W) & on the other day (F) I do the machines. Maybe not the same as the "free weights" but I can feel it in my arms & legs. You get out of it what you put into it. For those who've never tried it - try putting 30+ lbs. on your shoulders & do 6 minutes of squats or lunges - not 5 or 10.....how about 100 - 150? May not be the "standard" strength training work out but it will benefit you.

selina884

No, just no.

Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.

Agreed.
It's basically cardio, but very effective cardio.

selina884

I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.

You want cardio, go for a run.

ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.

I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.

You don't get the comparision? Lifting a bar with weights on it for biceps, is the same as sitting at the machine moving it for biceps.. it's a different tactic but works the same muscle. I did the weight circuit for close to a year, then have been at body pump for 3 months.. the results I have seen in the last 3 months of body pump are FAR GREATER than anything I ever saw on the weight machines.
[/quote

Your training routine was obviously not right if you saw minimal results compared to a body pump class.
Unless you were pushing light weights during training, in which case you don't really have an argument.

RoseDarrett

Bump.

skinnyinnotime

No, just no.

Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.

This is not true. I have managed good muscle definition doing Chalean Extreme. There was also a thread on here not long ago by a lady that looked very ripped and she had used very low weights, 3lbs.....I didn't see one person tell her she had done it wrong!!

Lifting heavy is great but it's not the be all and end all that so many people on this site will tell you.

selina884

Who ever said there would be no gains? You get strength gains in your legs running miles on end as well...but that doesn't qualify it as 'strength training'.

You will build muscle with high reps. And it isn't "doing squat for you" (your words) in terms of strength training, if you are working to fatigue. Your post on what builds muscle implied that you won't build muscle with high reps. Low, medium, high all will build muscle using different mechanisms and with differing levels of increase. Medium may be "the best" but it doesn't mean that bodypump "isn't going to do squat" because it is high reps.

High reps are not hypertrophy, they do not build muscle.
High reps are only for endurance purposes.

selina884

No, just no.

Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.

This is not true. I have managed good muscle definition doing Chalean Extreme. There was also a thread on here not long ago by a lady that looked very ripped and she had used very low weights, 3lbs.....I didn't see one person tell her she had done it wrong!!

Lifting heavy is great but it's not the be all and end all that so many people on this site will tell you.

The definition of "ripped" is often thrown around.
I do not doubt that this person held/holds very low body fat, which can be achieved from any exercise so long as the diet is in check.
Muscle mass? Now that may be debatable.

So whilst you're under the assumption that the lady is "ripped" due to low weights, I will educate you by informing you that shes possibly "ripped" due to her diet.

astronomicals

lol, I am surprised crisanderson2 maintained his composure throughout this whole thread.

However I would've given up several posts ago because; when a bunch of ignorant , uninformative and knowledge lacking people get together, its usually a sign for the educated to move along. You have been outnumbered.

lmfao

60%+ of your 1RM and do proper programming and overloading.. that is all

many do 80%+ 1RM but its not necessary for beginners and not sound advice for people of all ages and/or physical conditions

crisanderson27

I have mixed feelings about Pump, on one hand it gets people motivated to workout on the other most people don't see much increase in their strength and go into class believing it is something it isn't.

I went to Pump 2-3x a week for about, I don't know, maybe 6 - 9 months. There I was at the end mark only about 5 kg heavier (at the most) than when I started on each exercise. I then started working with a trainer who wasn't having me do a lot traditional weight training; a lot of functional stuff with intervals and some traditional weight lifting. I saw a tremendous increase in strength in a shorter amount of time. Fast forward to today, after a month and a half of compound lifts with the barbell I was a little stronger each week, not even comparable to Pump.

That is my story and it mirrors what I saw in class. In that time most people were still using the same weights they always used, not many people increased their weight.

I agree with the others that Pump is not a strength training class it is an endurance class. For those that asked for links, here ya go: http://www.shape.com/fitness/workouts/pump-fiction

"After eight weeks, subjects didn't show significant strength gain or body fat loss. The only measurable benefit was a gain in muscle endurance."

Even BodyPump's creators concur that it is an endurance class: "BodyPUMP promoters defend the use of light weights. "The reason for the light weight is that the program is designed to improve muscular endurance," Browning says. (Muscular endurance, experts agree, is important for activities lasting several hours, such as biking, hiking and skiing.) Browning says the Web site's increased-strength claim applies only to beginning exercisers, but this disclaimer doesn't appear on the site. "

BUT you don't need to do a gazillion reps to increase your endurance - "However, research shows that doing the traditional eight to 12 repetitions develops plenty of muscular endurance, while also building strength, bone and enough muscle mass to boost metabolism. "When you gain [muscular] strength you automatically gain [muscular] endurance, but apparently the opposite isn't true," says Wayne Westcott, Ph.D., fitness research director at Boston's South Shore YMCA.

Doing dozens of repetitions is not only unnecessary, Westcott says, but may increase risk of overuse injury"

And you are kidding yourself if you believe you are burning 400+ calories in class. http://muscleevo.net/body-pump/
"A study published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research looked at the calorie-burning effects of a 50-minute Body Pump workout.

Subjects burned, on average, 265 calories during the workout. The men burned a little more calories (315) compared to the women (214)."

Last, according to this study you aren't even getting an aerobic workout during the class duration: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2000/05000/Physiologic_and_Metabolic_Responses_to_a_Body_Pump.5.aspx
"Responses were below that necessary to elicit an aerobic-training effect and were lower than responses previously reported with circuit weight training."

Really, what is the point of bicep curling 10 kilos for 5 minutes? Being able to squat a light weight for a long time? I just don't see a lot of functional benefit. On the other hand training in the weight room will give you the strength needed to move heavy stuff when you need to do so without needing to ask for help.

♥

Really...I was posting from my phone all afternoon yesterday...there's no way I could have got that point across so clearly .

elainecroft

I did body pump regularly for a year and loved it. One day a few months in I thought I had a bruise on my shoulder....nope it was just my shoulders getting "cut" as my instructor said!! I got more tone/definition from body pump than by lifting on my own (because it is easier for me to stick with classes).

The key is to go often, and keep upping your weights. You'll see these women who stick with 5 pound weights for squats/legs, and that's not going to cut it if you want to get toned. I was using 20-30 pounds a side for squats (and when you squat for 5 minutes, that's ends up being a LOT) and 10-15 per side for arms/chest. Every couple of weeks/months you will want to up your weight - a good instructor can help you do this safely.

DavPul

No, just no.

Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.

This is not true. I have managed good muscle definition doing Chalean Extreme. There was also a thread on here not long ago by a lady that looked very ripped and she had used very low weights, 3lbs.....I didn't see one person tell her she had done it wrong!!

Lifting heavy is great but it's not the be all and end all that so many people on this site will tell you.

The lady you're talking about has posted in this thread. She's ripped because she's extremely lean. IIRC she only had 20 pounds or so to lose as well. She didn't gain muscle so much as she gained musculature from becoming/being so lean.

Most people here don't recognize the difference and that's why there are so many "Eww bulky" comments about women who aren't actually bulky, just extremely lean

lyie

@DavPul (sorry I don't know how to quote aha)
I would like to lift, but it's really embarrassing to go in this section full of men without knowing anything about lifting. Maybe you can't understand because you're a man, I don't know, but I am sure a lot of women lifting here had the same problem I have in the beginning. You cannot get how annoying it is when men look at you like this.
Plus I don't wanna be bulky, just toned.

geebusuk

Can I suggest that there's two issues and I suspect both are to do with outlook*.
Not trying to sound too patronising, but when I was your age I was similar - I certainly wouldn't have, say, gone out in with a running group that was ENTIRELY made up of women (me the one bloke out of 25-35), after realising this I certainly wouldn't have then got back and gone for a run with a few of said women (none of which I was attracted to) a week later - especially as it was a fairly tight nit group that did a fair bit of girly-gossiping.)
But over the last 15 years I've grown to realise it really doesn't matter. So yes, I can well understand where you're coming from, but have also come to realise it's not something worth worrying about!

*I was going to say age, but a friend that's almost 30 still won't travel to a gig where she knows other people alone because she considered it embaressing - and I've known blokes to be the same.

Some blokes will no doubt be looking at you because you've got a nice body.
If you're going to have one and not going to cover up; get used to it, it's a good thing!

As for 'getting bulky', this is someone else on here's results from 'heavy lifting':

gemmaleigh1989

This thread is hilarious, I am particularly enjoying reading the haughty comments of heavy lifters who clearly have never been to a class. I've been doing pump for several years now and I can tell you that my favourite moments are when those like these cocky 'heavy lifters' come to class and think they know it all. Yet halfway through the second track, the squat track, they realise they don't. They struggle so much with endurance, their form is appalling and they have to put their weights down well before the breaks. Yet they are probably lifting a fraction of what they would lift usually. They never come back.

Giving advice on classes you don't attend makes as much sense as me giving advice on heavy lifting which I don't do.

Ultimately I would like to combine the endurance benefits of pump with the strength gains of low reps, but I have so much more fun in pump than I would ever have lifting on my own in the gym. I have substantially increased my upper body strength through pump and it is very good for teaching technique.

I used to do pump actually and it's from that and my own research that I've learnt it is THE biggest waste of time. It's good for learning technique and that's it. That's great that you have more fun doing pump but I don't go to the gym to have a ball, I go there to get results so I avoid pump like the plague. Yes it's good for muscle endurance but I have, and will never have, a need to do 50 Bicepccurls in a row. I want to burn fat, preserve and build muscle and the best way is to lift heavy, NOT pump, so tthat's what I will continue to do and recommend to others who have the same goals.

gemmaleigh1989

You'll see many people say they get great results from body pump, I would bet those people were losing weight to see 'results'. I didn't get any great progress until I started with weights. Real ones, that progress over 20lb dumbbells. I finally started seeing that line going down the middle of my stomach.

Exactly, they're losing weight from the calorie burn and through diet and suddenly they're "building so much muscle from pump" when really they're just seeing muscle definition from burning the fat that was covering muscle that was already there.

selina884

@DavPul (sorry I don't know how to quote aha)
I would like to lift, but it's really embarrassing to go in this section full of men without knowing anything about lifting. Maybe you can't understand because you're a man, I don't know, but I am sure a lot of women lifting here had the same problem I have in the beginning. You cannot get how annoying it is when men look at you like this.
Plus I don't wanna be bulky, just toned.

as a total beginner, I would recommend body pump; just so you understand the basic concept of lifting, form (debatable) and get a general grasp of the feeling of weights.

ps - there is no such thing as "toned," its just a generic term for having low body fat and lean muscle mass. And Davpul, as well as many others have explained that it is extremely difficult for women to get bulky. Surely, you were reading his post?

..and lol have you ever visited the weights section? You must be "hot ****" if all the men keep looking at you. I don't get this problem at all.

I will tell you which ones get the most attention; the ones looking for attention.

gemmaleigh1989

ps - there is no such thing as "toned," its just a generic term for having low body fat and lean muscle mass.

Touche!

I will tell you which ones get the most attention; the ones looking for attention.

And another massive TOUCHE!

geebusuk

I wonder if anyone has done a study on how different training types affect the others:
ie for a couple of months have, Low weight-High reps, Medium Weight-Medium Reps and High weight-Low reps groups - then look at them at the end and for everyone see their improvement in strength, muscle size and muscular endurance.
So that we could see which one has the most affect on others.
Also, then; ideally some mixed groups doing different types of exercise to see if this does help or hinder.

jogglesngoggles

I apologize if this answer has already been given, I gave up reading through all of the posts due to the arguing lol. I did body pump WHILE losing the majority of my weight, when I got to where I wanted, I had some pretty killer muscles, especially in my quads, BUT I am a bit of an over acheiver and when the instructor would say 5-7.5lbs I would do 15...naturally I would tire out faster therefore doing less reps. It is cardio, my heart definitely gets going, BUT it has taught me proper form so that I have a little more confidence to actually go out on the floor. So would I recommend it as a beginner to weight training? Absolutely! Will you get the cut clean muscles you want? Not without heavier weights and lower reps, but it is a start, and it's definitely better than not doing anything. Best of luck in whatever you do

dad106

@DavPul (sorry I don't know how to quote aha)
I would like to lift, but it's really embarrassing to go in this section full of men without knowing anything about lifting. Maybe you can't understand because you're a man, I don't know, but I am sure a lot of women lifting here had the same problem I have in the beginning. You cannot get how annoying it is when men look at you like this.
Plus I don't wanna be bulky, just toned.

I've been lifting for 2 years.. Men still look at me like I'm a piece of meat. Put in headphones, put on good music and get going.

Also, a lot of people don't know what they are doing when they first start, but they still try instead of making excuses to why they cannot. Today I was trying to do super mans where you raise opposite arm/leg, and trust me, I looked like a fish out of water while doing it.. but I still did it.

Besides, if said man really does bother you, then hit him over the head with a dumbbell and run.... problem solved