Why is obesity considered deviant behavior?
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Yes, for most people it's a choice. They don't choose to be obese, they chose not to do something about it. And please note I said "most people" before you tell me about all the medical reasons someone might be obese.So basically obese people are choosing to engage in activities which quite literally could and will lead to their deaths?
Given that the overriding biological imperative is survival that theory seems distinctly like utter rubbish to me...
I think the notion that people consciously choose to eat themselves to the point of severe illness or even death is ludicrous.
in my view something else more compelling is going on under the surface...
I agree, it is ludicrous, but it is also the truth, which is disgusting and sad.0 -
*lights up*
Orly? Tell me all of your disgusting habits. Let me shame you for them, then you can tell me how that makes you feel.
Shaming someone into losing weight will do nothing but destroy whatever little self esteem they have left.
Also, you're a peach if you truly believe that ridiculing and shaming someone into doing what *you* want them to do is the right way to go about life.
The high school mean girls club called. They want their tactics back.
Srs. The change in attitude toward smoking in the US *did* impact the number of smokers. If obese people weren't allowed to eat fast food inside, that would begin to gradually change the number of obese people.
Whether it's good or bad is debatable but the fact is that the demonization of smoking and smokers has had a HUGE impact on the number of smokers - it's taxed out the *kitten*, it's barred indoors, and all because it's grown to be considered "societally unacceptable".
I think it's completely reasonable that the obese be treated the same way. Overtaxed, marginalized, excluded, and treated as something less than a person - rude comments made freely toward them because our society just doesn't stand for it anymore.
It works.
Precisely.
And once we're done with that we can decide what other behaviors we don't like as a society and start to weed those out as well. Gum chewing can be annoying. So any time you walk past someone chewing gum feel free to make rude comments towards them. You're being helpful after all.
They came for the smokers and I said nothing, because I don't smoke
Then they came for the fatties and I said nothing, because I'm not fat
Then I realized with all the smokers and fat people gone life was a hell of a lot less fun.
I second the motion to ridicule gum chewers. All that smacking and popping....
:smokin:0 -
Funny, while I am far from poor I actually spend less on food now that I am eating healthy. Amazing how much cheaper it is to pack my healthy lunch that run to grab fast food every day.
And also, I don't buy into "emotional eating" as being a cause. CHOOSING to emotionally eat it a cause. Yeah, I get the people get sad, lonely, depressed, whatever and turn to food for comfort. I am a single dad, and when my kids go visit their mom I tend to get sad, lonely, and a little depressed. But that doesn't mean you have to channel that into food. Yes, it is an easy quick fix so to speak. But so is going to the gym. Channel those feelings into moving weight around. Hell, channel them into just simply moving YOURSELF around.
This. I spend less on food now that I focus on making my own food.
I feel better and emtionally capable of handling life because I work out and release endorphines and have confidence in what my body can do.
Obesity has been made "ok" by society. And it isn't ok, it is a sign (usually) of laziness and not taking care of your health. I know. I'm considered obese. I am surrounded by office workers who do what I do every day: sit at their computers and eat then go home and sit some more on their computers or in front of their TVs and eat.
But I'm making the "extra effort" (used to be called life, BTW, up until the late 70s) to cook and move my chubby *kitten*.
And to those who look to the government to fix it: serious? Be accountable for your actions. That fork isn't making you fat anymore than a lone gun will kill you on it's own. BE ACCOUNTABLE.0 -
You just compared obesity to ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer. :laugh:
Where do I begin? :indifferent:0 -
Look. It's not easy to eat well all the time. Be thankful you live in a time (and assumably a country) where you can get enough food.
If it was easy to stay at a healthy body weight, everyone would do it.
It's a huge problem and as someone who WAS very overweight, I can say, no one can do it for you. You alone control your mouth and what goes in it. The sooner you own that, the better for you. It IS about food. Your food in your life.0 -
Funny, in all my years, I've never witness a fast food server or grocery store employee force feed anyone anything. The minute that happens, I'm right there with you OP. Promise.
I do agree with you on one thing OP. People need to take responsbility for their own health-food, exercise, physical checkups, etc.
I, for one, am so sick of the "vicitm" mentality that seems so pervasive in our society, always wanting someone else to do something and fix our problems.0 -
I take issue with the original post for a few reasons - one, where are these 'gobs of money' that are being used to fund research for ADHD and bipolar disorder? The only money I see in that equation is the money coming out of consumers pockets for drugs that have already been created, and into pharmaceutical companies hands, but that's a different thread all together. People who are bipolar or have ADD/ADHD more than likely didn't do something to contribute to their condition. As many people here have stated, for the majority of overweight individuals, their condition is of their own making, and even if somehow it weren't, they still perpetuate it daily by not engaging in behavior that could change their condition. For example, my mom was molested as a child, so when she had me, she became very depressed, and did something I came to find out later in life was very common for victims of molestation who have children - she grossly overfed me. Apparently (subconsciously) female victims, and perhaps males as well, over feed their children because somewhere in their minds it makes them feel like this will make their child less attractive to a predator. It's an odd thing, I know, but there is actually some psychology behind it. So, basically, I didn't have a lot of choice in getting fat. That being said, a point came when I was an adult when I realized I can't use my mom as an excuse for my weight. So I stopped, and got my **** together, because I did have a choice in staying fat. See how that works? Even in a scenario where I was actually made overweight by someone else, at a point, that was no longer an excuse. As adults their is no excuse to be overweight, period, and if we are, it is because we choose to be. Someone who is bipolar or has ADD/ADHD cannot all of a sudden 'choose' to not have those conditions any more. They can decide to treat them, but they cannot rid themselves of them. I CHOSE to lose weight. There is a difference there, so if we're going to compare things, let's compare like things - apples to apples, not apples to tofu. ...now, to be fair, no one said it was an easy choice, but it is a choice.0
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Why do people keep trying to blame fast food? McDonald's and Burger King have been around since the 1950s, and Wendy's has been around since the 1960s. People weren't obese back then. It's not the food choices that are the problem, it's the fact that people are much less active, and don't take any responsibility for themselves.0
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Obesity is crucial for the economy. Fast food nation's profits, pharmaceutical company profits all come in a significant part from obese people and more joining their ranks.
Fast food nation and pharmaceutical companies are the people who finance campaigns for presidents and governments.
As simple education program, teaching how to cook with fresh ingredients and making physical activity fun is all it takes. When you have a society that thrives on convenience, it's no surprise that food too becomes convenient.
"The Man" might slag off obesity in public, but "The Man" really wants more people to become obese.
or maybe.. just maybe.. instead of walking in the fields behind a plow and only being able to eat the foods you produce yourself on your own land with your own hands, we are now at a point where food is abundant and cheap and many people spend their days sitting at a desk behind a computer???
...nawww! couldn't be. worldwide food and pharmaceutical company conspiracies make much more sense as an explanation.
sure there is an abundance of food. there is so much surplus FOOD that stores of it are destroyed whilst people go hungry in other parts of the world. I work for a pharmaceuticals company, and let me tell you something..they NEED sick people, they NEED smokers and they NEED just about every single kind of health pandemic to make them rich(er).
Fast food nation and big pharma isn't an easy target to blame..it's pretty much the ONLY reason why obesity is tolerated by the government.
both industries depend on people living longer so they can sell more of their crap. thats all there is.0 -
Society is saying that being obese is unhealthy. So maybe some people are trying to shame others into not being obese. Some people think the obesity problem is causing their medical insurance to go up in cost. Getting rid of fast food or any other one type of food or drink is not going to solve the problem. Education is the best tool to use to fight obesity. Eating and drinking less calories than your body needs is the only answer unless you have a special medical problem. Exercise is good for you but it is always possible to eat too many calories no matter how much exercise you get. Also it is possible to eat too many healthy food calories.0
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Why do people keep trying to blame fast food? McDonald's and Burger King have been around since the 1950s, and Wendy's has been around since the 1960s. People weren't obese back then. It's not the food choices that are the problem, it's the fact that people are much less active, and don't take any responsibility for themselves.
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!!!
-Blame Canada. South Park0 -
This entire thread has made me legitimately butthurt today.
I'm gonna go rub it out *sigh*0 -
This entire thread has made me legitimately butthurt today.
I'm gonna go rub it out *sigh*
That came out wrong.0 -
it is not that simple. Stop shoving food in your mouth will only serve to cause severe eating disorders, malnutrition and bad eating habits I will ask that you refrain from exposing your harsh opinion of obese people. Did it ever occur to you that he was talking about the knowledge if nutrition? Because honestly I personally have an entire family that has never portioned anything in their lives. They knew nothing about how to be healthy. All foods that are easily available and affordable to the general public are unhealthy. Sure there are healthy choices as well, but with the family we currently have teaching is the wrong habits, subliminal messages in tv teaching us eating more is better. He is right, by boycotting the establishments that are assisting this, by not providing a healthy choice, and labeling all of their food as to the caloric nutrition, along with what vitamins and minerals it includes/ does not include; it will force a change. In fact it is the only thing as consumers we have power over. However in the mean time it is up to the individual to learn about nutrition. And make healthier choices, ongoing. I myself am only now approaching that I started 3 months ago and am 26 pounds down and 124 more pounds to go.Why is obesity considered deviant behavior when we throw gobs of money at research for cures of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer, etc. but almost none towards obesity? Obesity is an epidemic that will only get worse if we treat it with ridicule and disgust. It isn't a character flaw of someone that causes them to be obese. Obesity isn't deviance but a disease (like alcoholism) of sorts and if treated properly can be cured. By properly I mean addressing physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional needs of the obese person. McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King among others contribute mightily to the obesity problem.
As a society we also have to demand healthier products from the Food Industry and call the Food Industry on their so-called research to prove additives such as MSG and HFCS are safe. By making demands, I don't mean passing laws but refusing to eat at establishments that use trans fats, too much sugar, HFCS, and MSG. Hit the Food Industry where it counts - in the wallet. Americans need to take a more active role in their health and know that a pill will not cure everything.
The cure is already known, stop shoving food in your mouth and eat less, maybe move a little more as well.
And please stop with the tinfoil hat stuff with HFCS and MSG, metabolically speaking, how is HFCS different from sucrose and how is MSG different than glutamate?0 -
Yes, for most people it's a choice. They don't choose to be obese, they chose not to do something about it. And please note I said "most people" before you tell me about all the medical reasons someone might be obese.So basically obese people are choosing to engage in activities which quite literally could and will lead to their deaths?
Given that the overriding biological imperative is survival that theory seems distinctly like utter rubbish to me...
I think the notion that people consciously choose to eat themselves to the point of severe illness or even death is ludicrous.
in my view something else more compelling is going on under the surface...
In your view, and in the view of researchers who are dedicating time to this. Yes, choice is involved, but there are factors (genetic, environmental, cultural) that GREATLY influence those choices. If we take a stab at working on those factors instead of just saying calling people mentally weak, we'll have a much better shot at helping them. Shaking your head and writing someone of as simply making bad choices, consciously moving themselves closer to death, never helped for smokers or heavy drinkers. Yes, choice is a part of it, but it's extremely important to continue the search for tools that make that choice more viable in people's minds.0 -
Your lack of knowledge about the societal problems behind obesity is astounding. Look up Food Access and Low-Income Neighborhoods in a reputable public health journal. It's great that you've found your way out of eating crap, but your pathway was easier than it is for some: You have easy access to a grocery store that has many healthy items to choose from, you are the head of your household and therefore the "gatekeeper" for what food is brought in the house, you have the time and money to get to a gym frequently etc. I'm not saying people with financial difficulty CAN'T get healthy, but it's more difficult for more than one reason.
Your lack of knowledge about personal responsibility is astounding. I actually live in a n extremely poor area, and shop at the local grocery store. Surprise surprise, there are healthy options there. People are, by and large, not force feed. All adults are the gate keepers to their own body. Every bite of food they eat is a choice to eat that bite of food. Maybe it is more difficult for some. Tough crap. Whoever said that life is easy lied. It is also less difficult for some who still choose to be obese. Relative difficulty level does not equate impossibility. If they don't want to be obese, make the more difficult choice. Funny how you assume that just because I am in pretty good shape, it is somehow less difficult. My pathway was also more difficult than it would be for some as well. I made the difficult choice. Period. if someone doesn't want to be obese, they can make the difficult choice as well.
"tough crap" huh? Doesn't seem to work for most people for most addictions (and you can't tell me this isn't an addiction, it may be different from others, but all addictions start with choices and turn into something that's much bigger and more difficult than your average choice). You may be part of the exceptional few, but I'm just saying that anything we can do to give people a hand and make the pathway easier will get a few more people on board. While you are certainly entitled to being very proud of yourself despite the difficulties you've encountered, does that mean we shouldn't be looking for a way to remove those difficulties for others? Hopefully your disdain for those who haven't been able to be quite so amazingly strong-willed as yourself isn't shared by the medical and fitness communities; otherwise this problem (classifiable as "pandemic" at this point) will continue. When large portions of the population struggle with the same negative health outcome, it increases over time, and marked differences show up when comparing various socio-economic groups, it needs to be addressed systemically. Yes, personal choice IS important, but from a public health perspective, the professional community needs to continue to look for ways to make that choice easier. I'm sure as a parent, you do things to move your kids towards making good choices, even when you can't "control" what they do, hoping to give them an edge in some way and help them avoid difficulties that you faced, and you obviously use MFP to make your fitness goals easier to reach, so this concept shouldn't be so foreign. The easier we can make it, the more likely people are to make the decision to get healthy and stick to it.0 -
If we take a stab at working on those factors instead of just saying calling people mentally weak, we'll have a much better shot at helping them. Shaking your head and writing someone of as simply making bad choices, consciously moving themselves closer to death, never helped for smokers or heavy drinkers. Yes, choice is a part of it, but it's extremely important to continue the search for tools that make that choice more viable in people's minds.
Yet you're calling them mentally weak yourself by implying that people are incapable of deciding to take care of themselves unless someone invents a "tool" that influences them to "want" to take care of their health.0 -
If we take a stab at working on those factors instead of just saying calling people mentally weak, we'll have a much better shot at helping them. Shaking your head and writing someone of as simply making bad choices, consciously moving themselves closer to death, never helped for smokers or heavy drinkers. Yes, choice is a part of it, but it's extremely important to continue the search for tools that make that choice more viable in people's minds.
Yet you're calling them mentally weak yourself by implying that people are incapable of deciding to take care of themselves unless someone invents a "tool" that influences them to "want" to take care of their health.
Thank you.
I'm not saying people are weak. I've spent the majority of my life as a fat guy, eating crap and never working out.
But I'm sure as hell not saying that most people aren't smart enough to know that eating too much and not exercising causes obesity. That's pure condescension.
Saying people aren't educated is just another in the list of excuses for why we all got fat. You can keep making them or you can do something to change it.0 -
it is not that simple. Stop shoving food in your mouth will only serve to cause severe eating disorders, malnutrition and bad eating habits I will ask that you refrain from exposing your harsh opinion of obese people. Did it ever occur to you that he was talking about the knowledge if nutrition? Because honestly I personally have an entire family that has never portioned anything in their lives. They knew nothing about how to be healthy. All foods that are easily available and affordable to the general public are unhealthy. Sure there are healthy choices as well, but with the family we currently have teaching is the wrong habits, subliminal messages in tv teaching us eating more is better. He is right, by boycotting the establishments that are assisting this, by not providing a healthy choice, and labeling all of their food as to the caloric nutrition, along with what vitamins and minerals it includes/ does not include; it will force a change. In fact it is the only thing as consumers we have power over. However in the mean time it is up to the individual to learn about nutrition. And make healthier choices, ongoing. I myself am only now approaching that I started 3 months ago and am 26 pounds down and 124 more pounds to go.Why is obesity considered deviant behavior when we throw gobs of money at research for cures of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer, etc. but almost none towards obesity? Obesity is an epidemic that will only get worse if we treat it with ridicule and disgust. It isn't a character flaw of someone that causes them to be obese. Obesity isn't deviance but a disease (like alcoholism) of sorts and if treated properly can be cured. By properly I mean addressing physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional needs of the obese person. McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King among others contribute mightily to the obesity problem.
As a society we also have to demand healthier products from the Food Industry and call the Food Industry on their so-called research to prove additives such as MSG and HFCS are safe. By making demands, I don't mean passing laws but refusing to eat at establishments that use trans fats, too much sugar, HFCS, and MSG. Hit the Food Industry where it counts - in the wallet. Americans need to take a more active role in their health and know that a pill will not cure everything.
The cure is already known, stop shoving food in your mouth and eat less, maybe move a little more as well.
And please stop with the tinfoil hat stuff with HFCS and MSG, metabolically speaking, how is HFCS different from sucrose and how is MSG different than glutamate?
Congrats on your weightloss
How exactly would telling someone to stop shoving food in their mouths lead to severe eating disorders, malnutrition and a host of other problems?All foods that are easily available and affordable to the general public are unhealthy
O rly? I like how you talk in absolutes like thatHe is right, by boycotting the establishments that are assisting this, by not providing a healthy choice, and labeling all of their food as to the caloric nutrition, along with what vitamins and minerals it includes/ does not include; it will force a change
The healthiness of a choice depends on the amount and context of how it fits into your total diet, and labeling is a complete waste of time and money and has been shown to be largely ineffective at changing consumer behavior0 -
sad to say neither one of you are helping this thread. All you are doing is arguing. I ask that you all, please retread the initial post. This thread is to discuss, why people have such poor opinions of obese people, when there are soo many factors of reasons obesity is claiming the lives of millions. He is proposing that we as enlightened individuals, take a stand in, educating, and helping to reduce at least the most prominent establishments that are not helping to make people healthier. Because let's face it we all have our reasons for being obese. But most of us, simply are addicted to food. And it has a lot to do with tv commercials, poor nutrition knowledge, and the theme bigger is better. Also in case you haven't noticed we are all in the same boat. All people here are here for one reason. To get healthier. So please stop this arguing and become proactive in this discussion not negative. We get enough of that in our society. You never know who is going to read this thread, and how your comments will effect their weight loss and road to being healthy. Please lead by example. Be the change you want to see.If we take a stab at working on those factors instead of just saying calling people mentally weak, we'll have a much better shot at helping them. Shaking your head and writing someone of as simply making bad choices, consciously moving themselves closer to death, never helped for smokers or heavy drinkers. Yes, choice is a part of it, but it's extremely important to continue the search for tools that make that choice more viable in people's minds.
Yet you're calling them mentally weak yourself by implying that people are incapable of deciding to take care of themselves unless someone invents a "tool" that influences them to "want" to take care of their health.0
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