Book Club: Women Food and God (Author: Geneen Roth)

DeeVaz

Hello ladies,

So glad to have found this site, I came across it purely by accident (or was it?). Saw Oprah's show with Geneen Roth and haven't gotten around to purchasing it, but will DEFINITELY do tomorrow. Would love to be a part of this book club. I've been reading alot of your posts and you all sound like amazing women. I'll be back soon as I start my reading, I think this book IS what I've been searching for. Amazing how the Universe will lead you to what is real. Peace and blessings to everyone.

pmjsmom

I am behnd in my reading--mainly because I find myself rereading lots of the book! I will try to get caught up as soon as I can! I love reading everyone's thoughts about what Geneen has to say.

EboniA

Chapter 9-10: I think this book came along at the perfect time for me because I know HOW to eat right but haven't practiced doing it in a long time. So much has changed in my life since then, like kids, a husband, a live-in mom (my mom). This book is showing me how out of touch I have become with myself. I don't see myself when I look in the mirror... I only see my face, my hair, my stomach but that is not me. At work, I see myself through my mind. At home, I am mom or wife or daughter. I finished school to become an accountant and I want to continue to become a financial planner. Is that who I am? I don't think I know how to define myself yet. Am I still trying to follow the GPS out of the Twighlight Zone? LOL!

So, to quote Oprah: "What I know for sure" is that I am here and I am not broken? Everything else is not going to come to light overnight.

Still pondering...

FabulousFifty

:flowerforyou: Good morning!

This week we begin Part 3 of our book and journey: Eating. Chapter 11 addresses two types of eaters; restrictors and permitters.

Restrictors believe in control. They like to control themselves their food intake, their enviroment and THE WORLD! We all know one or two. They like lists and believe in deprivation as a way to control their weight. For a restrictor, deprivation is comforting. This unhealthy state of mind can lead to anorexia. They believe less is more. Since they are always controlling they can never really relax. Touching home with anyone?

Then we have permitters. Permitters simply merge with their chaos. They have a need to feel safe within hostile or dangerous situations. They have decided that they cannot really control the chaos around them and just become a part of it.. They do this by "becoming blurry and numb and join the party." Roth refers humorously to her "what the he__ __ " friend, who is a permitter. Permitters like company and often get you to join in with them when they are enjoying their dessert first or the second bottle of wine!

Sadly, permitters and restrictors believe there is not enough to go around and that they won't get what they need. Both are a type of compulsive eating. Restrictors control and permitters numb themselves. If you are trying to decide whether you are one or another, stop. Roth says we gravitate to both. A restrictor turns into a permitter the moment she binges. A permitter becomes a restrictor when she starts another program to finally lose the weight. I think just realizing that we have these predispositions and giving them a name may reveal something about your relationship with food. You may see yourself more predisposed as one or another. You may do well when you are around one type of person or another.

This week let's think about these predispositions and how it has affected our own relationship with food. I know we have both but I think my dominant predisposition is a permitter. I am more of a free spirit. I do tend to numb myself with food rather than deal with tough issues head-on. I do not like conflict. I avoid it all costs. I don't do well around my free-spirited friends. We encourage each other to be out of control! We feed off of each other but love each other dearly. I am intrigued by my organized friends who are strict with themselves and in-control of every aspect of their lives. I don't get them but I try to be like them. It is not going to happen. But I have "copped" some great tips by watching them. I have all of the right equipment and tools to be like them. I am just not "wired" like them. Thanks God!

I believe God made me like I am for a reason. I am creative and helpful. I am a giver and optimistic. I see that cup half full. BUT, I am a fretter and a worrier. You don't need to worry because I will do it for you. Instead of facing big problems, I worry and fret and medicate that with food. I have really hit something important by reading and pondering on Chapter 11 and 12. I believe I am moving into what Chapter 12 discusses....freedome from obsession. This involves trust...in myself and my choices and in others. I know I have trust issues.

What are your thoughts on Chapter 11 and 12. I am wishing you a blessed week and weekend. Chew on this a while and post your thoughts and comment on someone else's thoughts.

All the best,
Fab

EboniA

Chapter 11: I had to fall off the wagon to figure this out. I am an accountant so I like rules and order but this does not make me a restrictor with my food... or much else. I AM A PERMITTER. It really explains how I can create spreadsheets and guidelines for eating and exercise but never follow them! I'm ok for a week or two but end up convincing myself that the restriction is not worth it. I don't want to live like that forever. I like hamburgers so I eat them. I choose to make 1/2 turkey, 1/2 beef burgers but I won't ever stop eating burgers (oh, end-of-month lunch at work today is hamburgers:laugh: ). This past weekend was really, really bad for me. I got stressed about losing 4 more lbs in one week for the June challenge. Instead of buckling down, I went buck wild on the fast food and bad choices. I'm glad I can recognize this pattern now so I won't try to be so rigid.

I don't remember ch 12 so I will need to look at it again. I don't know how anyone gets through this journey without this book! Thanks again for this topic Fab! :flowerforyou:

EboniA

Ok, so I read chapter 12 again. Sometimes I can eat what my body needs and not overdo it but other times I lose control. To describe it, it feels like a familiar comfort to eat and eat. The food tastes really good and I am truly comforted. THEN I start to feel fuller and fuller, and stuffed, and UNcomfortable! Geneen even says it takes awhile to unlearn this habit. I'm proud that I can accept it without beating myself up. I think that is what chapter 12 is about. Always being kind to ourselves and treating ourselves with love. I realize it's going to take practice and patience. It's a little conflicting to join challenges when I'm a permitter because I just end up blowing it. I'm going to need to set my goals lower so they are a no brainer. It's worth a try since I've never tried it before.

Sharon: A good friend of mine is a giver like you and numbs with food too. Just remember that people love you because of who you are and not for what you do for them. As far as trust, didn't Geneer say if you believe you are whole, you can trust yourself. I still think it takes practice and patience. :flowerforyou:

FabulousFifty

Ok....I am still chewing on our previous chapters but it is time to ponder our last couple of chapters. After reading Chapters 13 and 14 let's discuss these points:

New rule: You can have what you want. Geneen R. states that your spirit of rebellion will dissapear when you give yourself this permission to eat, within limits, what you want. By easing into this state the compulsion to overeat, binge, and other bad habits should go away. We should begin to discover that when we eat certain foods we feel better. Also, that we can live without certain foods. In a sense, you get your life back. Food and it's compulsions no longer control you. I find this comforting. I am heading in this direction. Hmmmm....eating to nourish yourself......loving yourself with food.....I think I can live this way. I am worth it and you are too!

The guidelines: Your guidelines are really just being aware of your feelings and sensations. Are you truly hungry? What are you hungry for? Are you full??? Satisfied???? Somewhere in between???? Roth says when you pay attention to this you end the obsessions because awareness and obsessions cannot coexist. Do you buy into this? I believe it. I think it is something we did as small children and have gotten away from it. I believe, if we let it, our bodies would tell us what it needs and how much it needs. I am willing to try to be more aware and let go of obsessing about food.

What, if anything, have you learned from this book? I have learned to stop and experience my feelings. I am learning to face these feelings rather than just reacting to them. Reacting to them in the past has been to practice feeding them or numbing myself by binging. I have also learned to listen to my body. I don't have to eat by the clock or make sure I have 3 square meals a day. I can listen to my body and eat when I am hungry, and stop when I feel comfortable and satisfied. I have learned to love my body and self and do this by feeding it what it needs to thrive and be healthy. I have learned that my value is not determined by how someone reacts to me. Yes, I think it was worth the read! How about you?

pmjsmom

I just want you to know that I haven't forgotten this group. I have been busy with the new grandson and my daughter and family visiting, etc., etc., etc.

I am reading the book still but I have to admit that not much after the meditation chapter seems to apply to me--so far, anyway! Maybe I have been so busy that I'm not really comprehending what I read.

I am copying the discussion topics into a Word document so that I can think about them as I read and I will try to get caught up as soon as I can.

FabulousFifty

Eboni: I know what you mean...it will take practice to not go out of control. I think you are giving yourself permission to enjoy things withhin reason and with this comes a release from obsession and compulsive eating. BUT...I understand about taking some time and practice. I get that. I have some bad habits that haunt me from time to time. I still find myself wandering in the kitchen when I am bored or tired. This is just a habit for me. But....I will get there....I have the tools and understand myself better now......I am glad we took this journey together!:flowerforyou:

PMJs mom: good idea to print these topics out and think on them. Then respond later. Love that idea. Thanks!:flowerforyou:

EboniA

Well, I have some thoughts on the final chapters. I had another aha moment in chapter 14, "what will kill her is wanting another life than the one she has". It clicked in my head that I have been "dieting" to get to a life other than my own. What I really need to do is embrace my situation, my life, as it is. That doesn't mean giving up, that means keeping focus on my goals while accepting where I am now. It's like working toward career goals or money saving goals, it's not a separate thing. It's something that you incorporate into your life so you can learn and grow. It has made choosing what's good for me easier.

I hope everyone else is able to get something out of this book. I'd still like to discuss the book at whatever pace anyone else wants.

EboniA

Oh, one more thing. About the Eating Guidelines, I have been paying attention to how certain foods make me feel. Like restaurant food, if I eat it, I don't have the urge to workout. My mind tells me I "should" work off all of those calories but I don't WANT to. I have a similar reaction to starchy foods or sugar. My coworker just offered me a cupcake and I really don't want one because I know how it will make me feel. I'm eating watermelon instead. Can you believe it?? Sometimes I still can't. :drinker:

FabulousFifty

Well, I have some thoughts on the final chapters. I had another aha moment in chapter 14, "what will kill her is wanting another life than the one she has". It clicked in my head that I have been "dieting" to get to a life other than my own. What I really need to do is embrace my situation, my life, as it is. That doesn't mean giving up, that means keeping focus on my goals while accepting where I am now. It's like working toward career goals or money saving goals, it's not a separate thing. It's something that you incorporate into your life so you can learn and grow. It has made choosing what's good for me easier.

I hope everyone else is able to get something out of this book. I'd still like to discuss the book at whatever pace anyone else wants.

Ahhhhhhh.....well put my little grasshopper! I love it! I think jealousy or wanting what someone else has or is ..... is TOXIC! if you get that early on in life.....you will go far! Thanks for sharing your "aha moment." And, how cool is it that you notice that when you eat out or carbs your will to exercise changes. These two things are tied together,....somehow.....it is more complicated than I am able to explain. (Geneen Roth, where are you? :laugh: ) But knowing that you want to be the best YOU can be so you must feed yourself and treat yourself well is really big........ yeah, I am glad we took this journey. Once again, I have learned so much from this book....(thanks Geneen Roth!) AND....I have learned so much from my book club buds..............:smooched:

By the way...Geneen Roth will be on Oprah next week (I think on Tues. but check your TV Guide to be sure.) It may be a rerun......but even if it is.....I want to watch her so I can see if I can learn a little more from her. Want to join me and then have another discussion in wrapping this up? I saw her on "O" the first time around this summer which is what inspired me to buy her book (Thanks Ms. Oprah!). Maybe she will talk about some of her other books and we can read them and discuss.....any thoughts?:flowerforyou:

FabulousFifty

Chapter 6:

Wow. Page 83 really brought tears to my eyes. Again, I was reading this chapter waiting for that “Ah HA!” moment to hit. Boy did it ever!

“When you believe without knowing you believe that you are damaged at your core, you also believe that you need to hide that damage for anyone to love you. You walk around ashamed of being yourself. You try hard to make up for the way you look, walk, feel. Decisions are agonizing because if you, the person who makes the decision, is damaged, then how can you trust what you decide? You doubt your own impulses so you become masterful at looking outside yourself for comfort. You become an expert at finding experts and programs, at striving and trying hard and then harder to change yourself, but this process only reaffirms what you already believe about yourself – that your needs and choices cannot be trusted, and left to your own devices you are out of control.”
I haven’t been comfortable in my own skin in God knows how long. I grew up with a VERY judgmental mother, and I have since become very judgmental. So I then believe that everyone is also judging me, and everyone does to some extent. I’ve tried to change but have failed miserably. Like my mother, it’s easier to put others down than to focus on what’s going on with me. That’s only a small piece of the puzzle I’m sure. In my eyes, no matter what size I get down to, I don’t see myself being happy. I’ll focus on the skin that hangs over my c-section scar that will never go away unless I get surgery. I’ll focus on my nose or my double chin or something else that I know people will judge me for. How do I change this pattern of behavior??? It seems there are sooo many layers of this subject that it’s almost overwhelming. I’m not sure where to start; I don’t know how to change. I don’t know how to NOT see myself as unbroken, as discussed in chapter 5. :sad:

At this point, I almost feel more lost after reading this book. I would love someone else’s view on my responses. Can anyone help?? I’ll go back to chapter 5 in the meantime and re-read these last 2 chapters. Maybe I’ll get the light bulb moment that will help me understand the second time around.

:flowerforyou: I know at the beginning of our discussion it was requested that we not get preachy...so believe me I am not trying to be "preachy." I am just simply sharing who I am. Let me just tell you a little story that helped me see myself in a different light....I was once with my daughter as she was going off on a Christian teen retreat for a long weekend. I got to join her in a "send off" type of ceremony. Here the parents were all invited to join friends and Christian counselors in prayer for our young ones as we sent them off for the weekend. One of my precious daughter's counselors (who is now a dear friend of mine) prayed for these teens by saying so sweetly and sincerely to God: "Dear God, please bless these young ones this weeked as they grow closer to you. Help them to know you more this weeked. And more than this, help them to see how precious and loved they are. Help them to see themselves through YOUR eyes Lord. Amen" Ok....I was wipig my eyes as I heard this most sincere prayer by someone who knew earnestly that most of our problems in life boil down to the fact that we do not see ourselves as worthy....worthy of love, friendship, good relationships, respect, honor, good health and on and on and on. Well, I had a talk with myself on the way home that day. I had to ask myself....how much does God really love me? Man, He loves me so much that he sent his son to die a gruelsome, bloody death......for me. (I love my kids so much. I can't imagine sending them to death so others could live....I have sent my son off to war and that is as close as it gets....) So my sins would be forgiven and so I could live eternally with Him........................enough said! I am loved, adored, cherished by God AND.....so are you dear one. This changes everything. He believes we are very worthy of love, friendship, good relationships, respect, honor, good health and on and on and on! Yay! I do have to remind myself of this constantly though....because I am human.... I recall over and over that I make mistakes....that I fail....that I think God has posed tests to me and I have failed miserably. BUT, because of my faith, because I am a child of God, because I simply asked Him to come into my heart and live there and be with me... because it is just too hard to do this alone and He is the one I want to carry me through.....HE GIVES ME GRACE......I remind myself that I am forgiven.....I must dust myself off and try not to fail and try to be the child He would be proud of.....and I know in my heart of hearts that he loves me even more for humbling myself and asking for forgivness and asking that He make me a better person. It doesn't get any sweeter than this...........or any more peaceful than this................

I thank God that this youth counselor crossed this mom's path and God spoke to me through him. He does that in a sweet way throughout life. I have to remember to acknowledge that it is Him when it happens. If I get so busy in my daily business of lists and planning and accomplishing and screwing up then I won't notice these little messages He sends me. I have a feeling He has sent all of us to send His message to us through each other. Man, he is so cool like that.

:embarassed: Well, that is much more than you asked for, and maybe you didn't. :flowerforyou: But it is truly from my heart and I pray for you dear one. You are sooooooooooooo worthy of what God has waiting for you. It is my prayer that you will one day see yourself through God's eyes. God bless you in this journey. This is from my heart.....

FabulousFifty

Chapter 6:

Wow. Page 83 really brought tears to my eyes. Again, I was reading this chapter waiting for that “Ah HA!” moment to hit. Boy did it ever!

“When you believe without knowing you believe that you are damaged at your core, you also believe that you need to hide that damage for anyone to love you. You walk around ashamed of being yourself. You try hard to make up for the way you look, walk, feel. Decisions are agonizing because if you, the person who makes the decision, is damaged, then how can you trust what you decide? You doubt your own impulses so you become masterful at looking outside yourself for comfort. You become an expert at finding experts and programs, at striving and trying hard and then harder to change yourself, but this process only reaffirms what you already believe about yourself – that your needs and choices cannot be trusted, and left to your own devices you are out of control.”
I haven’t been comfortable in my own skin in God knows how long. I grew up with a VERY judgmental mother, and I have since become very judgmental. So I then believe that everyone is also judging me, and everyone does to some extent. I’ve tried to change but have failed miserably. Like my mother, it’s easier to put others down than to focus on what’s going on with me. That’s only a small piece of the puzzle I’m sure. In my eyes, no matter what size I get down to, I don’t see myself being happy. I’ll focus on the skin that hangs over my c-section scar that will never go away unless I get surgery. I’ll focus on my nose or my double chin or something else that I know people will judge me for. How do I change this pattern of behavior??? It seems there are sooo many layers of this subject that it’s almost overwhelming. I’m not sure where to start; I don’t know how to change. I don’t know how to NOT see myself as unbroken, as discussed in chapter 5. :sad:

At this point, I almost feel more lost after reading this book. I would love someone else’s view on my responses. Can anyone help?? I’ll go back to chapter 5 in the meantime and re-read these last 2 chapters. Maybe I’ll get the light bulb moment that will help me understand the second time around.

I really don't know if I can shed any light on your responses but I can tell you what I think has worked for me.

When my girls entered their teen years they started having all sorts of the usual doubts about skin, hair, clothing, etc. We talked about how often they REALLY noticed these things on other people, which turned out to be almost never--unless someone was exceptionally different they did not notice if they had a pimple or not, for instance.

I started to listen to my own reassurances and now remind myself that others are noticing my 'faults' just about as much as I am noticing theirs, ie. almost never!

Who, other than your husband or kids--who love you--will be seeing your c-section scar?
When I think of the people I know and love I realize that I don't really remember if they are good-looking or not because to me, since I care about them, they are beautiful!

(I am assuming that your profile picture is you--if so, you are a very beautiful woman and have no need to be worrying about what others may be thinking of you!)

I really don't know if this will help or is even what you are looking for but I hope you know that I care.

Now, for your previous post about needing some quiet time for yourself: You need to listen to Fab50 and TAKE some time! It may seem difficult right now but it can be just a short amount of time at first. (It is so hard to get this time when you have young kids--I know. )
The thing is--now there are times when I have TOO much time for me and sometimes wish for those chaotic years! Peace and joy to you, always.:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

:flowerforyou: You are a wise woman.....life is a good teacher if you allow yourself to stop and learn the lessons....you have done just that. I have learned so much from your responses. I am focusing on taking time to be here now....to feel what I am feeling.....I am noticing that I don't feed all of my feelings now with food. I like these changes. I am so glad to be at this stage in my life and I am glad your path has crossed mine. Thanks for shining your light on others. Life is hard and we can help each other through by what we have discovered on our journey...,..I wish you well.

carilyn39

i just saw oprah yesterday when she discussed the book. very interested in this will read all your thoughts after i get the book..

FabulousFifty

i just saw oprah yesterday when she discussed the book. very interested in this will read all your thoughts after i get the book..

Awesome...we would love to hear your thoughts....I missed her this time....I will check out O's website and see if it was a new interview. Hope you enjoy the book! It caused me to really examine why I had some really bad habits and gave me some new interventions to change those habits. It is not what I thought it would be but it was a nice surprise! :flowerforyou:

EboniA

I watched it last night. It was a new one with audience questions. I liked her first interview the best. You could tell in this one that people read the book but didn't actually do the work. I'm so grateful that we were able to discuss each chapter and take it step by step. I was telling my husband about it as we watched but he just kept rolling his eyes at me. LOL!

I think this goes beyond just a food relationship and more into what we think about ourselves. That thinking is what we project to the world but it's false. We are not even giving the world our true selves. Once we do the work to figure that out, we can be comfortable in our own skin.

AWESOME! I just went on Oprah.com and if you login you can access the 15 week online workbook for the book. I'm excited because my mom won't join MFP but at least she can go on Oprah and create a journal.

Ten10

BUMP

Steph_135

I finally got a copy from the library and I'm really enjoying it! 1/2 way through.

EboniA

I finally got a copy from the library and I'm really enjoying it! 1/2 way through.

Hi Steph. Are you reading through the whole book first or are you doing the work for each chapter? Sharon (FabulousFifty) posted some great questions for 2 chapters at a time. Oh, and keep a journal because thoughts come at you so fast, you'll want to capture every emotion to see where it leads.
I can tell you that working through this book is the best thing to ever happen to me. I wish you all the best. :flowerforyou:

Steph_135

Thanks, EboniA... I find the book to be a lot of information, but no practical application so far besides some meditation. I'll check out the questions being posted.

FabulousFifty

Good for you! I hope you look at our discussion point and ponder and journal your thoughts. Go slow and take your time to get through it. I had to kind of "marinate" in some of her ideas. I couldn't relate to her "God." Mine is different. BUT, she did help me to really understand why I was overeating and that I should really let myself feel what I feel. I am an emotional eater and this book helped me to work on this bad habit that contributed to the scale creeping up each year. Whew.....my body is lighter and so is my heart........this is my prayer for you!

EboniA

Oprah just reran the original interview with Geneen Roth today. Wow, what timing! I have been eating all day and feeling out of control. I needed a refresher on this topic and I plan to reread my posts. I kind of got obsessed about what I was eating and how much and started focusing on all the things I was doing wrong. Oops, I need to get back to the kindness.

I hope anyone who saw this for the first time on Oprah will go through the discussion questions posted here while reading the book. It's certainly a process and takes time to retrain years and years of habits.