Man to Man: A Support System for Men (part 2)

dinos

No doubt they are fine Casper, but I cannot mail order hardware from the US except for books and some other stuff. I tried Amazon but there are trade restrictions. I'll find a site located in Europe that can deliver and place my order there.

summersmi

Dinos, try looking in the hardware type stores. Also look where the construction guys work and shop. I work in maintenance and use the calipers from work. I'm pretty sure the fellows in Greece use the exact same tools we use here in the states. Ask the machine shop union members where to get calipers.

dinos

Thanks for the advise summersmi. I'm sure it won't be that hard to find calipers here, its not that I'm looking for the holy grail lol

CasperO

Bodyfat calipers are specific. They squeeze with a specific amount of pressure over a specific amount of area. Too much pressure = inaccurate reading. Too small an area = inaccurate reading. I'm an ex-machinist, have several sets of measuring calipers and even a couple of micrometers.

I tried regular measuring calipers and had problems. #1 - ouch, they're sharp. #2 - tip size was too small, just dug into the skin. #3 - inconsistent, could never get the same reading twice. You can try it, and good luck, but I wouldn't trust those readings - that's why I went out and bought the real thing.

whyflysouth

I've got calipers but I'm so bad at measuring I always get drastically different values and always forget the exact place I measured before so I bought one of those omron impedence hand held fat % measures. The reviews for it say it's roughly just as precise as the calipers, maybe off by 1-2%, so that's good enough for me.

Here's a link of the one I got:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FYZMYK/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?ie=UTF8&cloe_id=b88035d9-2e69-432a-ba91-5748ecc87f6e&attrMsgId=LPWidget-A1&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00006WNPU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1QEJHERJADVS0JV29PEV

whyflysouth

Teroknor, congrats on the over 100 loss! That's seriously impressive, you look like two different people in that pic. Regarding your weight loss, I'd just advise that you ensure you're at least eating your BMR day in/out. I'm 5'7" - 31 yrs old - now 148 lbs and my BMR is 1584 cals, so I'm thinking yours should be more than that.

You don't want to eat so little that you cut into muscle, and if you get your body fat measured, if you're between 13 - 19% you're probably in the clear and you don't really need to focus on weight loss. At some point you'll want to get into maintenance and maybe even look into building muscle as we end up losing muscle naturally as we get older and our bodies get more catabolic, so you'll need to offset that so you don't break your hips in the future - but yeah you probably shouldn't stay on a lose 2 lbs / week diet, and maybe slow it down to 1 or under / week.

oh yeah, BMI probably makes sense for me, but not so much for you. For naturally bigger guys (over 6'0) with a decent amount of muscle, it can be pretty off. Even health professionals these days recognize the problems with it and are more concerned with a person's waist to hip ratio when it comes to determining whether the person is at risk due to his body composition.

dinos

Good grief Casper. You're using micrometers to measure your body fat? :laugh: Btw, Great post
I finally found the shop in Athens that sells the original accu-measure equipment. I'm getting the real thing. I also learned the greek word for it, it is dermatoptychometra. :happy: This is getting better and better

Umpire57

Needless to say, I do not starve myself

This week I have actually been way over all 3 days - 1520+1000 exercise and I have been ending up in the 2800-3000 calorie range all 3 days (Although I do not measure anything and TRY to over-guesstimate portion sizes in most cases).

Tomorrow I am taking a trip to Atlanta to take my daughter to her birthday Braves game (The girl is OBSESSED with the Braves) so this weekend should be a challenge to say the least.

I am staying with my brother in law a couple of hours away from Atlanta so I don't know if I will skip my Saturday workout or see if they have a YMCA there that allows out of town members to have a guest day pass (I hope they do)

I know my body fat percentage is still high just by looking (Although I need to invest in one of Casper's calipers to really check.)

Once I drop my BMI below obese I will more than likely change my goals.

Thanks

wjassell

I just wanted to jump in as I am roughly the same height although a bit lighter at about 6'1 220lbs. My wife has been telling me I don't need to loose any more but I don't listen I have a goal and that is what I am focused on. You should pretty much throw out BMI it is useless. I am still listed as Overweight with a BF% of around 15% and even at my goal weight of 210 I would still be in the Overweight category with a bodyfat % around 9-10%.

I average 2000 calories per day while doing P90X which for me burns about 4000-4500 calories (per HRM) per week just for reference.

Apparently according to BMI in this picture I am at the top of the overweight section.

Umpire57

I agree about BMI to a point. The thing is, I have not been strength training so I know just by looking (shirt off) that I still have more I can lose (especially in the gut)

I have just about convinced myself now that I need to get a body fat caliper and go from there.

I do not expect or even want to get in the healthy range for BMI (136-184) but I would like for it to not be obese

I truly believe somewhere between 215-220 is going to be my maintenance spot but then again I thought 100 pounds ago that I would be ecstatic at 230.

I average about 2300 calories a day eating and I usually start M-Sat with 1 hour on the elliptical (Lowest reading I have ever gotten on any machine is 1060 and the highest was 1500+ on about 4 different models tried, and the lowest was one that asked age and weight before starting so I always use 1000 for that count)

I also officiate softball throughout the week but I never count that as exercise as without a HRM, I have no way to accurately determine it.

I think that should be enough to let my body decide where my sweet spot should be...Correct?

whyflysouth

I just wanted to jump in as I am roughly the same height although a bit lighter at about 6'1 220lbs. My wife has been telling me I don't need to loose any more but I don't listen I have a goal and that is what I am focused on. You should pretty much throw out BMI it is useless. I am still listed as Overweight with a BF% of around 15% and even at my goal weight of 210 I would still be in the Overweight category with a bodyfat % around 9-10%.

I average 2000 calories per day while doing P90X which for me burns about 4000-4500 calories (per HRM) per week just for reference.

Apparently according to BMI in this picture I am at the top of the overweight section.

Yeah man, ur not overweight. I'm thinking that BMI was initially determined at a time when the majority of people were skinny, poorly nourished, or just short... not sure. But it definitely needs to be revised. On a different note, I've got some friends from Indian descent who are at or close to 6'0" and weigh under 130 lbs, so yeah, for them they are borderline under-weight/healthy, but they can't seem to gain weight and they're overall healthy but they get charged more on health insurance b/c of their weight they're considered "high risk".

ccgisme

Yeah man, ur not overweight. I'm thinking that BMI was initially determined at a time when the majority of people were skinny, poorly nourished, or just short... not sure. But it definitely needs to be revised. On a different note, I've got some friends from Indian descent who are at or close to 6'0" and weigh under 130 lbs, so yeah, for them they are borderline under-weight/healthy, but they can't seem to gain weight and they're overall healthy but they get charged more on health insurance b/c of their weight they're considered "high risk".

Agreed - you are not overweight!

According to the most reliable source of information on the interwebs, Wikipedia :huh:, the BMI formula "was invented between 1830 and 1850 by the Belgian polymath Adolphe Quetelet during the course of developing 'social physics.'" Further looking under Quetelet's entry on Wikipedia suggests that social physics was related to statistics and probability and primarily used by astronomers. Quetelet appropriated the term to the social sciences - specifically sociology - to try to better understand humanity through statistical measurement.

Let me step aside here to say that in my "real life" I'm the administrator of an academic unit that is housed in the social science division of a major state research university in the mid-west, USA So, this little fun, personal health related research project is now turning into work... :noway:

Suffice it to say - whyflysouth is absolutely right. If Wikipedia has its facts straight:huh:, the term was coined in the mid 1800s as part of an effort to define the "average man [sic]." This was at a time when the average man, woman, and child worked with his or her hands to scratch out a modest, subsistence level of living. While life on continental Europe and the East Coast of the US might have been more civilized for some, most Americans at the time were living in undeveloped wilderness - a far cry from driving to McDonald's in an SUV or the other types of caloric imbalances we have today. It predates high fructose corn syrup, modern medicine - it's easy to weigh 140 if the saw bones has to take off your leg! :laugh:

There are researchers out there calling for the BMI formula to be revised. See http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/177534.php for one example.

Alright - enough of that. I think it's safe to say that BMI is one way of measuring overall health risk and that it has its limitations! Got to love the interwebs...

summersmi

I have a link here to a site that does a little better at calculating where your weight should be. It takes your frame type into account at least. http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm

I found this to be at least realistic and reasonable. Make sure to figure your frame type the way they tell you or you are just going to be making something up.

Umpire57

On the bright side, I have to brag a little tonight. My wife bought me some shorts and they were 38s which is the size I was in high school and the smallest size I have ever been since like age 12. Anyway, They were TOO BIG! She returned them and got 36s and they fit perfectly! This is the first time in my life I can remember wearing 36s. I am sure I did in 5th or 6th grade but I can't remember then

in any case, thanks for letting me gloat for a second.

dinos

I have a link here to a site that does a little better at calculating where your weight should be. It takes your frame type into account at least. http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm

I found this to be at least realistic and reasonable. Make sure to figure your frame type the way they tell you or you are just going to be making something up.

For me it says that I should be 217 lbs ( < 11% Body Fat). Weeelll, it seems hard to get there, I'd be delighted to go down to 230.
I don't want to bite more than I can chew.

FORKDOWN

Crap 253.8 lbs. Going in the wrong direction. :grumble:

BullDozier

Friday morning weight in:

Starting weight (5/21): 174.5
5/28: 174
6/4: 175.5
6/11: 175
6/18: 174
Original 7/4 Goal: 165 (not going to happen)

Well, I'm finally back down to where I was on 5/28. :grumble: I ate better this week, and actually squeezed in a few sessions of exercise, so I'm glad I have something to show for it. Hopefully it will keep me going. I checked that website on ideal weight for my height, and 164 was the top of the scale. If I continue at a pound a week, I'll hit that at the end of August.

FORKDOWN

Crap 253.8 lbs. Going in the wrong direction. :grumble:

Double crap sw was 253.4 lbs
:mad:

summersmi

Friday morning weight in:

Starting weight (5/21): 174.5
5/28: 174
6/4: 175.5
6/11: 175
6/18: 174
Original 7/4 Goal: 165 (not going to happen)

Well, I'm finally back down to where I was on 5/28. :grumble: I ate better this week, and actually squeezed in a few sessions of exercise, so I'm glad I have something to show for it. Hopefully it will keep me going. I checked that website on ideal weight for my height, and 164 was the top of the scale. If I continue at a pound a week, I'll hit that at the end of August.

DITTO, You and I seem to be on the same path at least in height and weight. My weight should be about 164 lbs for my height and we are close in age. I have been stuck at 170 pounds for about a month now. I plan on kicking up the exercise nest week and seeing if that has any effect.

dinos

I still have a good chance to reach my goal weight for the 4th of July challenge:
SW May 21, 255.0 Goal Weight : 245
May 28 - 253.5
June 4 - 251.5
June 11 - 252
June 18 - 249.8

My walk/bike/hike target was 120 miles and I've covered 122 so far. I'll try for 200 mi and see if I can make it

ccgisme

It's Friday check in for the July 4th Challenge. I haven't been making as much progress as I'd like.

Height 5'10"
SW May 21, 255.4
May 28 - 253.8.
June 4 - 251.0
June 11 - ???
June 18 251.2

Goal: 245

I'm kind of stalled on C25K. My backpacking trip took a lot out of me and roughed up my feet a bit - heels are fine but the toe box on these boots might be a bit too narrow (I had hot spots on the outsides of my big toes and my little toes... :grumble:

I repeated Wk 6 D 2 yesterday. I'm going to go back to Week 7 D 2 (which is where I should be) tomorrow and see how that works.

I'm probably not going to hit my goal, but I will be incredibly happy if I can join Dinos in the under 250 club :glasses:

Hope you all are doing well!

whyflysouth

Friday checkin. I guess I reached my goal a little early! :laugh: :drinker: :happy:

SW May 21, 153. Goal Weight 147~148 (firmly under 150)

5/21: 153
5/28: ??? - was sick
6/04: 152
6/11: 151
6/18: 147.7

...Well I can attribute it to... hmm... not working out, and eating only 1/2 c of brown rice a day for carbs. Doesn't sound like a good thing, but I've been busy at work lately that I haven't gone running or hit the gym or done very much of anything but work for these last two weeks. Oh, I mowed the lawn, but when I work out I go intense and I haven't done anything intense in a while.

But likewise, my diet has been slim, I've been eating what my wife puts in front of me while I'm at the computer, and she's been really good at giving me the healthy stuff, so allot of salad, some spinach, fruit and nuts, and chicken breast.

whyflysouth

According to the most reliable source of information on the interwebs, Wikipedia :huh:, the BMI formula "was invented between 1830 and 1850 by the Belgian polymath Adolphe Quetelet during the course of developing 'social physics.'"

Whoa. I had no idea it was that old, I thought something from the 40s or 50s, but from almost 200 years ago, I'm pretty disappointed in our healthy community that its being referenced today. For one thing, how exactly would this Belgium dude have access to all the statistical data of the weight of the people of the world at that time. Most likely he only got number from the minority of European society that were considered valuable enough to be worth the effort of measuring, and an even smaller minority of Americans, but you know no African-Americans, or people of non-anglo ethnicity would've been included in such a study.

Secondly, many people were working in entirely physical labor jobs, probably mal-nourished - it's just so far off from the reality of today, the life-expectancy was probably allot shorter back then, there are so many factors that have changed to make BMI almost just some arbitrary value when we compare our times now with how things were back then.

I mean here's a valid question, what is the appropriate body mass and body composition that is optimal for a long life? Well, we can make guesses at it, but if we want to use statistics we've got to go through records of people's lifespan, or maybe go to places where life expectancy is measured and determine median weight amongst people of those areas and then extrapolate those numbers...

It's just rediculos that the same BMI values from the 1830s is used as a standard these days.

dinos

Gale_c that's some great info you collected there. Medians, lifespans, belgians of the 19th century, social physics, demographics, racial distribution, marginal propensity to obesity?? Holy Moly, we've turned the BMI into IBM. Soon I will have enough material to prepare a thesis on weight loss, but I wont be able to determine my ideal weight. :noway:
Reminds me of a story about Wilt Chamberlain who had problems at the foul line. His career free-throw shooting average was only 51%, so he hired a psychologist to get some help. "After six months he said, I was still all screwed up, but the psychologist could make ten of ten" :laugh: :laugh:

daved71

Morning everyone. My challenge is going very good so far. This morning I weighed in at 175, 5 pounds away from goal. I have started C25K and start W4D1 on Monday, along with biking to work 3 or 4 days a week. That is it for my exercise, still hoping to hit 170 by the 4th.

Other good news, I finally hit overweight on the really outdated BMI chart. I know that we can't really go by this but it was really ice to hear the WII fit guy say "That's overweight" and not obese. I will have to check my body fat% somewhere but judging from my belly, I still have some weight to lose. I am hoping to get somewhere between 150 and 160.

Keep up the good work guys.

ccgisme

Morning everyone. My challenge is going very good so far. This morning I weighed in at 175, 5 pounds away from goal. I have started C25K and start W4D1 on Monday, along with biking to work 3 or 4 days a week. That is it for my exercise, still hoping to hit 170 by the 4th.

Other good news, I finally hit overweight on the really outdated BMI chart. I know that we can't really go by this but it was really ice to hear the WII fit guy say "That's overweight" and not obese.

Good luck with C25K, I'll do W7D3 on Monday. Don't let the long intervals psych you out. I was surprised by the jump from 10 minute intervals to 20 minute intervals, but I did it just fine.

Good for you getting to "overweight." :bigsmile: I'm not a violent man, but sometimes I want to punch the Wii Fit scale...he annoys me... :mad:

Umpire57

Monday Morning weigh in.

Guys, I have NO idea how I did it this week. I thought after the week I had that there was no way I was going to have anything less than a 2 pound gain. I was thinking beforehand if it was 230 which was 1.6 pound gain for the week, I will count my blessings, kick myself in the tail and do better this week.

I get on to 226.8 - a 1.6 pound loss! - I still need to kick myself in the tail and do better this week as I was over almost every day last week and we don't even want to talk about Father's Day (Although I GUESS 2 pieces of sugar free sweet potato pie is better than 2 pieces of regular pie)

I did kick myself in high gear this morning and put up the best numbers I have ever done (Calorie wise and Distance) this morning in my workout.

Hope everyone had as great a Father's Day as I did! - Here is to another week!

whyflysouth

Nice work teroknor! Yeah I was destroying myself this weekend. On saturday I ate this giant gyro at a nearby restaurant, then had a mcdonalds ice cream. Yesterday, I had a venti frappaccino and 3 donuts after eating my regular somewhat healthy lunch... I was in an act of rebellion.

But I corrected it last night by going on a 3 hour, 7 mile walk with my son from the park we were at all the way back home.

This morning's weigh-in: 147 lbs... so I still lost 0.7 lbs from thursday.

paullie_t

I didn't catch onto this thread prior to the July 4th challenge, but I'll post up my numbers:

02/02/10 : 255.4 (SW)
03/03/10 : 244.4
04/10/10 : 236.8
05/02/10 : 235.2
06/07/10 : 233.0
06/21/10 : 227.8

This morning was the lowest weigh-in I've had in several years.

Yesterday, I performed the Dumbbell Workout from Men's Fitness and boy did it kick my *kitten*!

My legs are screaming in pain today when I sit down and get up out of my chair at the office.

CreativeRedhead

Well hello you all! Looks like you've all stuck to the plan and are all doing so wonderfully! Best of luck this week....surpass those goals and drop those pounds!