A side thread off of the 5000 calorie day thread...
Jxnsmma
Posts: 919 Member
I am just wondering because my mind is boggled. I'm not trying to be condescending or rude. This is an honest question/statement. Alot of the fittest people on this site (who I'm not naming cuz i dont want to finger point but are super knowledgeable and well known for giving great advice and they know who they are and can respond if they wish to) are the people that are condoning and even promoting eating dirty and super high calorie foods that have not much to offer from a nutritional or calorie defecit standpoint. Most of the people Im referring to have made posts on the recent 5000 calorie day thread, but I've seen it all over the forums when people talk about eating clean, avoiding traditional "junk foods" etc. Some even poke fun at people and make them feel like theyre doing something silly by trying to eat healthier to lose weight. These people I speak of all have super 6 packs and obviously have had great results with their lifestyles. Hence why my mind is boggled knowing that most of the people found a need to get on this site from eating meals such as these. Most average people aren't putting in the workouts that these ripped people obviously do that make eating like that and looking like THAT possible. They cant really be blessed with genetics that would allow eating that way and NOT working out to result in bodies like those works of art! So why make the average person feel like its wrong or stupid to try to eat "healthier" and avoid trigger foods (like sweets for me) and heavily processed foods, and that eating 5000 calories a day will not affect weight loss results and is actually good for the average overweight person? I understand it can be part of a whole lifestyle, or bodybuilding program. Things like carb cycling, backloading, high calorie days, intense workouts. But I think its misleading to the average joe trying to lose a few pounds to say "if you want to eat it, then just eat it, its not going to harm you" without a disclaimer of some sort saying "You best not do this all the time and you best get your *kitten* to the gym and lift some heavy weights and go for a run after binging like this cuz mopping doesnt count as exercise if you eat like me" .
Thoughts? :flowerforyou:
Thoughts? :flowerforyou:
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Replies
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I don't have a 6 pack. I don't have a problem eating whatever I want as long it is in moderation!! I was on a cruise a couple weeks ago, I ate whatever I wanted to!!! :bigsmile:
Edit to add: I mostly eat healthy, but I do occasionally indulge!!0 -
Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.0 -
There's a difference between generally eating healthier and adopting an orthorexic mindset. No one is advocating eating junk food all the time and not working out. There is room, though, to enjoy yourself a bit AND still get in shape.0
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Agreed. There are people who seem to take pleasure out of having the extreme opinion. They just enjoy causing a fuss.
I get sick of people asking for, say, healthy recipes and then having to wade through pages where the "what does healthy even mean" "I can fit mcdonalds into my macros every day" "just eat what you like" brigade have their say. Heaven forbid someone should want to eat less calories and more vegetables.0 -
Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.
following IIFYM means i have space for the odd biscuit or serving of icecream!0 -
I don't think anyone is advocating eating 5000 calories of crap daily. I think they're saying to stop thinking you must restrict and be super diligent about 'eating clean" to lose. You don't have to. As long as you create a deficit, you can eat crap and lose weight. Is it the healthiest? No, but it can be done. People are more likely to fall off the wagon/binge/fail after a few months if they are super restrictive and cut food groups and treats and calories all at the same time. Limiting junk is bad, but nothing "needs" to be eliminated from a diet in order lose, barring actual health issues. I think that's the point "I eat dirty" folks are trying to make.0
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You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.0 -
I don't think anyone is advocating eating 5000 calories of crap daily. I think they're saying to stop thinking you must restrict and be super diligent about 'eating clean" to lose. You don't have to. As long as you create a deficit, you can eat crap and lose weight. Is it the healthiest? No, but it can be done. People are more likely to fall off the wagon/binge/fail after a few months if they are super restrictive and cut food groups and treats and calories all at the same time. Limiting junk is bad, but nothing "needs" to be eliminated from a diet in order lose, barring actual health issues. I think that's the point "I eat dirty" folks are trying to make.
I agree with this 100%!
When I lost 50 lbs the first time around, I didn't use MFP but I followed these four rules from Paul McKenna that helped me out:
1) Eat what you want - When you starve yourself of something on diets, you wind up binging on them when you do eat them
2) Eat when you're hungry - We eat when we are bored, emotional, habit, etc. Only eat when your body tells you it needs to eat
3) Eat consciously - Take a bite, put down your fork, chew your food. We tend to shovel which causes us to eat more than we need as it takes 20 minutes for your stomach to tell your brain it is full.
4) Stop when you are full - Self explanitory
I was able to keep the weight off for the most part for the last 4 years following these rules (it really changes the way you approach food) but have been slipping too much lately so need to go back to basics and it has been working. I never got so heavy where I was overweight again but just toward the top of the BMI scale which I didn't want to be at. But I always ate anything I wanted, including junk food, as long as it was in moderation and that is the key.0 -
Most average people aren't putting in the workouts that these ripped people obviously do that make eating like that and looking like THAT possible.
Honestly? It's not about hours and hours in the gym every day. Nor do they overeat. I advocate "a little of what you fancy" - - certainly not 5,000 cals a day - - because over-restriction seems to be the foremost root cause of failure.
People whittle themselves down into a narrow and unpleasant diet. They use sheer willpower to do something that isn't gratifying or sustainable and over time, their willpower fades.
I believe the solution is to enjoy lots of things. If you don't have medical issues about sodium or sugar or gluten, eat foods you like. Make you sure you get protein AND fat AND carbs.
I didn't get to where I am by eating some crazy restrictive diet OR working out in the gym 22 hours a day. More like eating what I want within reason, including treats, and exercise three to six days a week including cardio and strength.
edited to add: According to Neilsen statistics, the average American spends 34 hours a week watching TV. I spend one fifth to one tenth that amount of time exercising.0 -
Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.
^^Agree.
Even though I most recently started back up on this weight loss journey, I realize I am now doing it in a completely different manner... This time around, I was thinking that I would eat as healthy as possible, but still have enough calories left in my day for, a cookie, apple crisp, ice cream, etc. so that I wouldn't feel like I am depriving myself! And while I am not losing buckets of weight, I feel like I am being close to the healthiest "me" possible, and that I am doing everything in moderation and the weight will come off with exercise and my newly developed healthy habits...
Also, it's just easier to eat healthy when you know that you're not 100% restricting yourself from the foods you love... If you can still treat yourself while eating healthy, exercising and the whole shebang, I don't see a problem with the occasional "dirty" food... If you're too hard on yourself, you just might turn around one day and go after all the foods that you deprive yourself from.
Edit: Partly why I failed last time is because I refused to let myself eat anything that could be considered "unhealthy" and was practically living off of salads, fruits, etc. I hated what I was doing and completely went back to the "old me" and gained damn near 20 extra pounds... Now I'm working back down that scale.0 -
You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.
This.
Most of the people I see don't advocate eating 5,000 calories a day. Usually with their training regime they're more like 3,000- 3,500 calorie a day (at maintenance). That being said you could still eat the occasional ice cream and pizza. If your worried about body composition though your probably going to need to spend about 3 hours a week strength training. Not exactly endless hours in the gym now is it?
If you look at my diary I'm usually around 4,000 calories a day but I have an active job coupled with a dog to run.0 -
I workout 3-4 days per week 35-40 minutes per session, and eat pretty much whatever I want and I drink beer as well, though I don't come close to 5,000 cals/day, let along 3,000. As long as you hit your caloric, macro and micro goals, then what you eat is not all that important.0
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Agreed. There are people who seem to take pleasure out of having the extreme opinion. They just enjoy causing a fuss.
I get sick of people asking for, say, healthy recipes and then having to wade through pages where the "what does healthy even mean" "I can fit mcdonalds into my macros every day" "just eat what you like" brigade have their say. Heaven forbid someone should want to eat less calories and more vegetables.
That's life.
I get sick of people demonizing white rice, potatoes, and any other food that gets put on the 'bad list of the week'..
I'm free to give my advice as you're free to give yours.0 -
People give food too much power. So many times you see posts of people being "afraid" of certain foods, or thinking that certain foods are evil and must be avoided. Food is food. It isn't inherently bad. Most of the people that are saying "eat what you want" aren't sitting around stuffing their faces with pizza and ice cream all day every day. They are saying that you don't have to deprive yourself of the things that you like IF you can make it fit your macros and IF you are losing inches or pounds. If you stall or gain, then reassess your intake.
And besides, why WOULDN'T you want to listen to those who have obviously made it work for them. I have several "ripped" people on my list and I have seen the Before pictures of some, therefore I know it isn't all good genes. It's diet and exercise and commitment. And the occasional cheeseburger.0 -
I'm going go out on a limb here and assume the OP's ticker isn't similar to mine.
Please, OP, keep telling me what I'm doing wrong. I obviously have no clue what I'm doing.0 -
Thats because it doesnt matter what you eat....it matters how much you eat...I lost 10 lbs having a pint of ben and jerrys for breakfast every morning for a month just to prove that exact point. Its all about discipline.....If I eat a mcdonalds burger...I know i have to trim down what i eat the rest of the days to meet my macros and caloric budget....its that simple.
And If I want to cheat and have a 5000 calorie day I do...because its about sustainability not instant results.0 -
Can you give me the TL;DR version of this? My brain hurts and I don't want to read a mass of text that is just full of blah blah wha wha crap.0
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I'm going go out on a limb here and assume the OP's ticker isn't similar to mine.
Please, OP, keep telling me what I'm doing wrong. I obviously have no clue what I'm doing.
Lea would be just one of the many that I mentioned in my earlier post.
I've seen her diary, AND her ticker AND her B&A pictures. 0 -
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Most average people aren't putting in the workouts that these ripped people obviously do that make eating like that and looking like THAT possible.
Honestly? It's not about hours and hours in the gym every day. Nor do they overeat. I advocate "a little of what you fancy" - - certainly not 5,000 cals a day - - because over-restriction seems to be the foremost root cause of failure.
People whittle themselves down into a narrow and unpleasant diet. They use sheer willpower to do something that isn't gratifying or sustainable and over time, their willpower fades.
I believe the solution is to enjoy lots of things. If you don't have medical issues about sodium or sugar or gluten, eat foods you like. Make you sure you get protein AND fat AND carbs.
I didn't get to where I am by eating some crazy restrictive diet OR working out in the gym 22 hours a day. More like eating what I want within reason, including treats, and exercise three to six days a week including cardio and strength.
QFT.
With my exercise routine of 3 days hard cardio and 3 days lifting, an hour or so of each a day, I'm able to maintain @ about 4100 calories daily. (5'10" @ 193lbs) Another maintenance routine for me is 3500 M-F & 5000 on Sat/Sun. I typically allow myself 20-30% of my daily intake to come from what most people consider "junk". For me that's my daily Pop tarts and ice cream.
Currently I'm cutting at 3250 daily, while still eating pop tarts and ice cream every day. The balance of my diet ensures I meet my macro and micro needs.
I've had great success this way0 -
You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.
All this right here. I spend 60 mins working out 3x per week and 15-30 mins working out on 3 other days. It's not exactly superhuman to get in 45 mins of exercise 6 days per week. I don't even run. So yes, please stop acting like people that get in shape are from a different planet or something. A lot of the "super shape" people have 'before' photos that would blow your mind with how out of shape they were when they began.
I ask you a counter question: Since it's known that most people fall off the diet wagon because it's too restrictive and they end up missing their favorite foods, what is so wrong with telling them that they can lose weight while continuing to eat things they enjoy? So many threads here are "OMGZ I BINGED THIS WEEKEND AND ATES A DONUT SO NOW I WANT TO GIVE UP." And we're like, "Meh, whats wrong with donuts, don't panic, eat your normal calorie deficit today and you'll be fine."
In one corner I see a bunch of people achieving incredible results without stressing out, having a good time, telling jokes, and making post after post trying to help people. In the other corner, I see a bunch of people stressing out about invisible nutritional boogeymen, panicking if they don't have access to "clean" foods, having anxiety attacks about eating a company functions and family holidays, and continually dropping from the site because they had two days of fast food so they quit everything.
I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?0 -
The initial thread you are talking about was not 5,000 a day EVERY DAY. It was about one day, that's it.
That being said, how do you think most of these "ripped" people got the way they are today? In general, they started out on MFP just like you, wanting to lose weight, trying different approaches and "diets". Then guess what, they found what worked to get them "ripped" as they are today. They educated themselves, and a good portion of that was from what they learned on MFP from other "ripped" members that did the same thing before them.
I'm sorry, would you prefer a site full of people that have never achieved their goals? Exactly how would that work, learning from people that are NOT successful?
Edited to add: I use the term "ripped" only because that is what you are using, OP. But in any case, why not learn from the ones that are fit AND happy, not only with their results, but how they got there!0 -
These people have a healthy relationship with food. They are not mindlessly eating. Also your going to say for the rest of your life you will never have ice cream, pizza, birthday cake? That one slice is going to derail your entire progress? If it fits in my macros, its fitting in my belly.
I'm not a supper ripped 6 pack, but I burned over 2,500 calories this past Sunday. That is a whole lot of ice burg lettuce.0 -
in the original thread a girl asked for ideas for 5000 kcal day and got bashed immediatly
nobody is saying you should eat 5000 kcal of mcdonalds food every day
but don't go to thread like that saying, if you do eat 5000 you are a pig and end up bloted and sick0 -
Yea, I'm with this guy.I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?0 -
Yea, I'm with this guy.I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
I'm standing over here with Dave and Lea.
OOPS!0 -
I'm going go out on a limb here and assume the OP's ticker isn't similar to mine.
Please, OP, keep telling me what I'm doing wrong. I obviously have no clue what I'm doing.
My thoughts exactly. I've managed to lose almost 100 pounds and keep it off (prior to MFP) and I had cake, cookies, icecream, and all the other junk food.
At 121 lbs and 17% body fat I don't have to spend endless hours a day in the gym.Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.
Also, this! So much of this. Once I learned this I was able to lose weight, eat what I wanted, and actually break away from the binge/starve cycle of Yo-Yo diets.0 -
Yea, I'm with this guy.I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
I'm standing over her with Dave and Lea.
I loved his whole statement!!0 -
Yea, I'm with this guy.I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
I'm standing over her with Dave and Lea.
are we just gonna start a party cause im standing with you guys0 -
Yea, I'm with this guy.I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
I'm standing over her with Dave and Lea.
Totally, totally, totally want to stand in this corner!0
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