A side thread off of the 5000 calorie day thread...
Replies
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What you're eating while trying to lose weight isn't ad important as people make it out to be. What is?
Quantity quantity quantity
Bottom line. Calorie intake needed depends on size and activity level.
A 400lb bodybuilder and a 400lb fat person both need 5,000 cals/day to keep going, and big man elite swimmer Michael Phelps needs the same amount of cals/day as a woman 50lbs lighter than him that trains and swims the same amount as him.
As for dieting "normal" people, eating the same amount of cals/day is bad for the metabolism. If you eat 1300 everrry day, have ONE day where you double that will give your metabolism a boost. A stalled metabolism=stalled weight loss.
Some people though can eat whatever they want and gain nothing, while some people gain 5lbs from one Dorito's.
No two people are the same. Therefore, when you ask for advice on these forums, buyer beware. The guy who told you you'll stop losing weight if you eat one candy bar does not have the same body as you. While his weight loss stalled because of a single Milky Way, a Milky Way may be exactly what your metabolism needs to take off and soar.
Take everything here with a grain of salt. Test, try, and play around with what someone recommends, but know it may or may not work for you. Short of someone giving you proven, scientific fact, don't witch and moan because you read something that worked for, and is true for, SOMEBODY ELSE.0 -
Truth. Also, this cannot be seen as a diet if you want lasting effects. Only give up things that you are willing to give up forever. I am unwilling to give up beer, cheese and pizza. I will, however, eat less of it and move more.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all times and circumstances, but I understand the basis on which you're making it.
(Sorry, I don't mean to derail the more general discussion...this is just one of those points that is made frequently on MFP with which I have just a slight disagreement.)
It's all good. I understand that this is not a universal truth. I just dislike that idea that if I stop eating this for a while, I will get fit. While true, you will lose weight from changing that behavior, what happens when you come off your diet and resume that behavior? It is better to learn how to live within your wants and needs rather than just cutting things out until you reach some predetermined goal.
(And with this clarification, I will now gladly co-sign.)
^this
:drinker:0 -
Totally agree. Not everyone has two hours a day to spend at the gym. Not everyone can just abandon their children and go for a 10 mile run.
ABANDON their children? That's extreme language.Many of these folks just refuse to understand that it does take work to achieve the kind of calorie expenditure required to be able to eat massive quantities of junk and still look like Johnny Bravo or who ever. This is accumulated over TIME and no one is going to look like they were chiseled from marble in a month unless they didn't have that far to go to start with.
Where did you get the idea that you will achieve your goal in a month? Those results you're looking at were also accumulated over time. Time that would not have been put in if the plan were unsustainable.
Here's the deal: You have a multitude of choices to make. Every choice has consequences. When it comes to your body, the two factors affecting the appearance and health level the most are your diet and your activity level. If you want a sleek and trim body, you need to have a pretty balanced match between the activity level you choose and the intake levels you consume.
Do you want to be sedentary? Well then to stay slim you will also need to be choosing a lower calorie intake level.
Are you willing to be more active? That level buys you more intake.
Are you willing to be very active? Incorporate weights and cardio in a balanced way? Because what we are trying to tell you is this, if you are willing to be that active, you will enjoy the ability to eat very decadently. You will have a lot of room for higher calorie levels.
That's why MFP starts by training you to log everything, and gives you "credit" for your exercise calories. Because once folks learn that higher activity levels=higher eating levels.......they catch the bug and start wanting to be more and more active than they previously believed they could be.0 -
Amen to this.Excuses are invalid.0 -
We can all say whatever we would like...
But you can't argue with results.
So think carefully about who's advice you choose to follow around here. Want to lose weight, shed fat, and build muscle? Try listening to the people who've already done it. They know. Period.0 -
I didn't see this posted anywhere, so I'm going to post it. It's a post Sara made about fitting it in.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/925464-fitting-it-in-giggity0 -
Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.
[/quote
This, absolutely. It wasn't until I just counted CALORIES and didn't obsess over not eating certain things that I truly began to lose weight and be happy. You can't just cut everything. 80/20 is a great idea.0 -
My diary is open if you want to see someone eating whatever, not working out in any gym at all and still losing weight - I'm lucky to even hit a macro, normally I don't do that either. I'm not 'ripped' but this is not my focus / goal. I am happy with my progress. I am ecstatic with the shape of my body. It is not for everyone but it is great for me.
I have seen so many new people come in here and try to cut EVERYTHING.. they don't research, they don't read, they ignore good advice.. and then they give up because they 'binge'. I binged on 900 calories worth of cookies last week (no I didn't have room for them) and still lost 1.5 lbs. It's not about the short term, this is the rest of my life and that is what I tell people. Do not start anything here that you are not going to be willing/able to do for the rest of your life. I don't know about you but I plan on attending parties, going out to bars, eating birthday cake, having pizza and beer if I feel like it and all that stuff.
Obviously you can't eat 5000 calories every day but sure as anything can eat whatever you want IN MODERATION every day and not have to spend any time at all in the gym to lose weight. Note that I said losing WEIGHT and NOT gaining muscle definition before anyone starts jumping down my throat for not wanting to lift weights.0 -
Totally agree. Not everyone has two hours a day to spend at the gym. Not everyone can just abandon their children and go for a 10 mile run.
ABANDON their children? That's extreme language.Many of these folks just refuse to understand that it does take work to achieve the kind of calorie expenditure required to be able to eat massive quantities of junk and still look like Johnny Bravo or who ever. This is accumulated over TIME and no one is going to look like they were chiseled from marble in a month unless they didn't have that far to go to start with.
Where did you get the idea that you will achieve your goal in a month? Those results you're looking at were also accumulated over time. Time that would not have been put in if the plan were unsustainable.
Here's the deal: You have a multitude of choices to make. Every choice has consequences. When it comes to your body, the two factors affecting the appearance and health level the most are your diet and your activity level. If you want a sleek and trim body, you need to have a pretty balanced match between the activity level you choose and the intake levels you consume.
Do you want to be sedentary? Well then to stay slim you will also need to be choosing a lower calorie intake level.
Are you willing to be more active? That level buys you more intake.
Are you willing to be very active? Incorporate weights and cardio in a balanced way? Because what we are trying to tell you is this, if you are willing to be that active, you will enjoy the ability to eat very decadently. You will have a lot of room for higher calorie levels.
That's why MFP starts by training you to log everything, and gives you "credit" for your exercise calories. Because once folks learn that higher activity levels=higher eating levels.......they catch the bug and start wanting to be more and more active than they previously believed they could be.
i only abandon my kids for an hour and fourty five... I WOULD NEVER ABANDON THEM FOR A FULL 2 HOURS!0 -
*applause*
I have a fairly low TDEE compared to most (I maintain on 1700 plus exercise calories). I'm also chronically ill. I don't have an active job. I work out lifting weights 3 times per week for around 45 minutes, and I try to get in some cardio on my days off from lifting. Usually it's just walking. I still find room for food I love. It's kind of a game-- to make sure I hit my macros, get in some veggies, and still have room for ice cream or peppermint patties. It can be done even on a moderate caloric intake, and I've approached it this way pretty much since day 1. I've always known that trying to eat "clean" would result in burn-out. Personally I'm very glad that people like DavPul were around when I was a newbie to tell me that there was another way to be successful.
I fall in this camp too. Fairly low TDEE, similar workout schedule, chronic illness and I manage just fine with a variety of foods including ice cream and the dreaded pop tarts. For someone who has a chronic illness I am in fantastic shape. My illness is in remission at the moment and I feel great. I am also 47 years old and have the lowest body fat percentage I have had in my adult life (despite the fact that I have never been overweight and have been on corticosteroids long term, twice). Almost everyone in my family is overweight or obese. It really is about moderation. I don't have special genetics, I don't work out excessively and I have a sedentary full-time job. Yeah, I am a special snowflake...just like everybody else.0 -
i eat whatever i want, i eat processed foods, sugar loaded foods, fatty greasy foods... i just fit it into my daily calories. i also have 2 saturdays a month, that i go a little crazy with my friends / family, and possibly eat up to 5000 calories in a day (or drink them) and i have lost 70 pounds in 8 months... for those who wish to eat clean and restrictive, great, but its not a MUST... weight loss is simple, calories in / calories out... as for body comp... im not at that point right now, im focussing on weight loss... and enjoying klondike ice cream DAILY while doing it!
I will just throw this out there...start thinking body composition NOW, you will NOT be sorry. I see posts time after time from people wishing they had started sooner.
A good weight training program will make your body smaller and tighter on a calories deficit, and you will be able to fit in that next size down more quickly than you thought!
oh dont get me wrong, i weight train just as much as i do cardio, what im saying is my MAIN focus is not building muscle right now, because im eating a a large defecit to lose weight. right now, i focus on calories in / calories out, and protien... im sure in the future i will pay better attention to other macros and such, but for now, if i can fit it into my calories, its free game. if you look at one of my split pics (purple shorts / black tank), ive lost 70 pounds in 8 months, and my skin is not too lose, its definately toning as i lose... im just not focussed purely on building muscle at this point in the game.
excellent!:flowerforyou:0 -
I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.0
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I am just wondering because my mind is boggled. I'm not trying to be condescending or rude. This is an honest question/statement. Alot of the fittest people on this site (who I'm not naming cuz i dont want to finger point but are super knowledgeable and well known for giving great advice and they know who they are and can respond if they wish to) are the people that are condoning and even promoting eating dirty and super high calorie foods that have not much to offer from a nutritional or calorie defecit standpoint. Most of the people Im referring to have made posts on the recent 5000 calorie day thread, but I've seen it all over the forums when people talk about eating clean, avoiding traditional "junk foods" etc. Some even poke fun at people and make them feel like theyre doing something silly by trying to eat healthier to lose weight. These people I speak of all have super 6 packs and obviously have had great results with their lifestyles. Hence why my mind is boggled knowing that most of the people found a need to get on this site from eating meals such as these. Most average people aren't putting in the workouts that these ripped people obviously do that make eating like that and looking like THAT possible. They cant really be blessed with genetics that would allow eating that way and NOT working out to result in bodies like those works of art! So why make the average person feel like its wrong or stupid to try to eat "healthier" and avoid trigger foods (like sweets for me) and heavily processed foods, and that eating 5000 calories a day will not affect weight loss results and is actually good for the average overweight person? I understand it can be part of a whole lifestyle, or bodybuilding program. Things like carb cycling, backloading, high calorie days, intense workouts. But I think its misleading to the average joe trying to lose a few pounds to say "if you want to eat it, then just eat it, its not going to harm you" without a disclaimer of some sort saying "You best not do this all the time and you best get your *kitten* to the gym and lift some heavy weights and go for a run after binging like this cuz mopping doesnt count as exercise if you eat like me" .
Thoughts? :flowerforyou:
My thought is that people largely get fat not because they eat unhealthy food, but because they eat too much of it.
My thought is that these people love the food that they eat. That's why they eat a lot of it.
My thought is that these people think they need to give up the foods they love in order to lose weight.
My thought is that people who give up the foods they love can only do that for so long and eventually relapse and go back to eating lots of the food they love, instead of this "healthy" food they hate.
My thought is that if we try to dispel the myth that you need to give up the foods you love in order to lose weight, these people will feel empowered to eat a diet that includes the foods they love but includes them in much more healthy and sustainable ways.
That's largely why we talk about these foods. It's stupid to give up all the food you love in order to be "healthy." Eat the food you love. Food is awesome. Just do it in a better way.0 -
We can all say whatever we would like...
But you can't argue with results.
So think carefully about who's advice you choose to follow around here. Want to lose weight, shed fat, and build muscle? Try listening to the people who've already done it. They know. Period.
Stop making sense.0 -
I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.
but abandoning them is much more fun!!!0 -
I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.
Orrrrrrrrr also,
maybe do it when they are awake.
OH NO!
they might want to jump in and exercise too! We would never want that!0 -
The best advice I could give anyone who wants to lose weight is to plan to eat the things you want and make them fit. That, and have a day every now and then where you eat at or above maintenance. The freedom this gives you is immeasurable. It's a lot easier to be "good" most of the time when you know you can be "bad" once in a while, and the results speak for themselves.0
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You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.
All this right here. I spend 60 mins working out 3x per week and 15-30 mins working out on 3 other days. It's not exactly superhuman to get in 45 mins of exercise 6 days per week. I don't even run. So yes, please stop acting like people that get in shape are from a different planet or something. A lot of the "super shape" people have 'before' photos that would blow your mind with how out of shape they were when they began.
I ask you a counter question: Since it's known that most people fall off the diet wagon because it's too restrictive and they end up missing their favorite foods, what is so wrong with telling them that they can lose weight while continuing to eat things they enjoy? So many threads here are "OMGZ I BINGED THIS WEEKEND AND ATES A DONUT SO NOW I WANT TO GIVE UP." And we're like, "Meh, whats wrong with donuts, don't panic, eat your normal calorie deficit today and you'll be fine."
In one corner I see a bunch of people achieving incredible results without stressing out, having a good time, telling jokes, and making post after post trying to help people. In the other corner, I see a bunch of people stressing out about invisible nutritional boogeymen, panicking if they don't have access to "clean" foods, having anxiety attacks about eating a company functions and family holidays, and continually dropping from the site because they had two days of fast food so they quit everything.
I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
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Right now I am on a maintenance break & eating around 2600 calories (and maintaining). In another week I will go back to a deficit of around 1900-2000 calories. I'm fairly active (running 2x a week, lifting for 45 minutes 3x a week, and karate class twice a week). What I have learned over the past week of eating at maintenance is that I can live with it. I have been eating ice cream every day. But, now I know that 1 serving is 1/2 a cup, not the 2 cups I used to have. That's a change that I'm okay with. I can eat out with friends and family, and as long as most of the time I'm keeping myself active and being aware of my intake, it's really going to be alright in the long term.
Isn't that what this is about? Long term health? Those who say that it's okay to indulge here and there really do want to see people succeed in their goals, but they've seen so many people start out gung ho only to bail, because they were overly restrictive or overtraining. It happens so often that it gets disheartening.
As to not being able to exercise because you have kids - that's just an excuse & the sooner you recognize that the better off you will be. We all have obstacles that we have to find ways to work around, suck it up and figure out your workaround.0 -
I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.
Orrrrrrrrr also,
maybe do it when they are awake.
OH NO!
they might want to jump in and exercise too! We would never want that!
You haven't really done crunches until you have a one years old's help. Having a small child laying across you really helps your form. well ok not really but it does cause alot of laughter when he says boo.
I personally shall be abandoning my children tomorrow morning at 05:45 to go to the gym, I can then be there and back before they are up, or just as they are getting up at about 7 to get them ready for school. Do I want to get up at 5:15 to go exercise? Not always. Would laying in bed be lovely? Yes, totally. Will it help me achieve my goal? No, so I get up and move my butt when I am able to fit it in. Which at the moment is early AM.0 -
From Yoovie, who should be allowed to post in the main forums again
#freeyoovieI think that many people assume that the 5000 (although it think it's more like 3000) calorie guys and girls are always advocating eating junk and eating dirty food.
1. They dont get all their calories from junk - most of their diets are 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs or similar, macros people are always trying to match or meet. They dont say EAT CRAP! They say - you don't have to NOT eat it. I eat pizza 4 or 5 times a month. I eat ice cream whenever I want, I get fudge rounds and bagels with bacon eggs and cheese. I need to in order to get enough protein and fat and carbs. But MOST of the food I eat is nutritionally insane. Those on high calorie diets neeeeed that fuel for insane daily workouts. They dont cram their faces with junk. They just dont. And they have a different opinion of what junk food is. Most newbie dieters think of junk food as ALL high calorie foods, and bacon, ice cream, whole milk, pasta, burgers, etc - for a lot of us (and I use US lightly cause I SHOULD be eating a lot but yall know I suck at eating) these things are almost necessary. I see junk food as stuff like ramen noodles or chef boyardee that have nothing to offer me but calories and sodium. I eat tons of home cooked meals. I just have to.
2. By the time you get to the point where you need that many calories - you just are not a beginning dieter with triggers and behaviors you are learning to modify. That is the difference. Most of those people are used to being in the gym consistently for many months or years by now, and dont really have newbie food issues anymore because we dealt with them already or never had them. Make sense?
Just because they say we eat bacon and cheese burgers and burritos the size of our faces, does not mean they eat badly.
Newbs just hear those words and think -excessive gluttony- when it simply isnt the case.
Wait Yoovie isn't allowed to post anymore???
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You see people advising others to eat more, because for some reason people on this site tend to believe that 1200 is a magical number, no matter how much you weigh, how tall or active you are.
I was 215 when I started on MFP. Even though, I set my weight loss for .5 pound a week, I was losing over 3 from portion control and running three days a week. I called my doctor for advice and all they could give me was a sheet showing a sample 1200 calorie diet.
I was like, "No thanks, I'm losing 3 pounds a week at 2300 a day. I don't think that eating less will help me figure out a sustainable loss."
They told me to wait a few weeks and see if it leveled off: it did.
But I can kind of see where the 1200 calorie crowd is coming from.0 -
You haven't really done crunches until you have a one years old's help. Having a small child laying across you really helps your form.
Yours lays across you? My sits astride and BOUNCES!!!0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.
Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.
Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.
I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.0 -
I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.
Orrrrrrrrr also,
maybe do it when they are awake.
OH NO!
they might want to jump in and exercise too! We would never want that!
You haven't really done crunches until you have a one years old's help. Having a small child laying across you really helps your form. well ok not really but it does cause alot of laughter when he says boo.
I personally shall be abandoning my children tomorrow morning at 05:45 to go to the gym, I can then be there and back before they are up, or just as they are getting up at about 7 to get them ready for school. Do I want to get up at 5:15 to go exercise? Not always. Would laying in bed be lovely? Yes, totally. Will it help me achieve my goal? No, so I get up and move my butt when I am able to fit it in. Which at the moment is early AM.
I workout while my kids are sleeping, in my basement. But, I'm a whole floor away, so they're totally abandoned. And, you have also not lived until you're mid-deadlift on your heavy set when your 4 year old shrieks from the couch behind you.
I also *gasp* leave my children in the CARE OF THEIR FATHER every Saturday so I can run outside for 30-40 minutes. Oh, the horrors.
But, to be less sarcastic, and I've said it before, no one is advocating eating like crap every day and "offsetting" it by working out 5 hours a day. And, no one assumes that you're not getting a workout in just because you don't leave your kids. I work out 6 days a week, 5 of those are at home while my kids are at home. I think what people are commenting on is the statement that anyone who works out a lot, or is fit and eats crap foods, must be ABANDONING their children. When a bold statement like that is made, ridiculous answers come with it, I have found. It's not an all or nothing. There is some wiggle room in between no workouts at all and abandoning one's children for 3 hours a day to work out. Rarely is anything in life all or nothing, there's usually a nice, comfy middle ground.0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.
Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.
I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.
I'm sorry if somebody has said that to you, but I didn't see that reasoning on this thread - I could have missed the comment. I know that I've never been put down anywhere on MFP because I sometimes have to run with a double stroller.
I saw the recommendation to work out for 45 minutes 6 days a week. I saw the suggestion to put the work in if you wanted to get ripped/eat millions of calories. But I didn't see anything about workouts not counting if they were done at home/with kids.0 -
no one is advocating eating like crap every day and "offsetting" it by working out 5 hours a day.
As the saying goes, "you can't out exercises a bad diet."
I think one of the distinctions that gets lost is the difference between a bad diet and bad foods.
I'd like to suggest: A bad diet doesn't fit your macros/micros over a period of weeks. Bad foods don't exist. However, high quality foods DO exist and are an important part of a quality diet. How you balance this all out is really up to the individual.0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.
Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.
I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.
What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.
Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.
I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.
*You* don't understand *their* logic?
As the kids these days are wont to say: LOLWUT?0
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