A side thread off of the 5000 calorie day thread...
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49 here. No superpowers, no genetic freak. Active (runner) but not a gym rat. 200 pounds back at Christmas, 2010. 159 today, 7 pounds to goal weight.Without reading through all the responses (I did read the OP), here are my thoughts:
First, I wish I had a time machine to go forward 20 or 30 years into the future and see how those people eating dirty yet sporting six packs are doing. Seriously. Then, I'd like to take a peek at myself and some of the other clean eaters here and see how we compare.
Because I have heard so many stories of people who had great physiques in their younger years who are suffering from all kinds of degenerative (and preventable!) diseases, who have a beer belly and are totally out of shape.
I believe that you can get away with eating dirty for a while. I did for a summer--ate at Taco Bell almost every lunch, but I was walking a good portion of the day and lost weight. However, that's not something I could do now in my 30's after having 3 children. And most people can't walk as much as I did to keep the calories down.
In hindsight, I'm in the second best shape of my life right now, minus the weight I need to lose. The first best shape would be when I was doing P90X when I got pregnant with my 3rd. And my goal is that by the next pregnancy (I kind of feel like we'll have another one), I want to be in even better shape than that! MFP is helping me do that. :happy:
Most of the people responding to this, in support of eating what you want, are in their mid 30's and 40's. Just sayin'.
41 here.
Open diary.
Edited for date typo.
:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0 -
You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.
All this right here. I spend 60 mins working out 3x per week and 15-30 mins working out on 3 other days. It's not exactly superhuman to get in 45 mins of exercise 6 days per week. I don't even run. So yes, please stop acting like people that get in shape are from a different planet or something. A lot of the "super shape" people have 'before' photos that would blow your mind with how out of shape they were when they began.
I ask you a counter question: Since it's known that most people fall off the diet wagon because it's too restrictive and they end up missing their favorite foods, what is so wrong with telling them that they can lose weight while continuing to eat things they enjoy? So many threads here are "OMGZ I BINGED THIS WEEKEND AND ATES A DONUT SO NOW I WANT TO GIVE UP." And we're like, "Meh, whats wrong with donuts, don't panic, eat your normal calorie deficit today and you'll be fine."
In one corner I see a bunch of people achieving incredible results without stressing out, having a good time, telling jokes, and making post after post trying to help people. In the other corner, I see a bunch of people stressing out about invisible nutritional boogeymen, panicking if they don't have access to "clean" foods, having anxiety attacks about eating a company functions and family holidays, and continually dropping from the site because they had two days of fast food so they quit everything.
I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
Is there any room left in this corner for my beer-swilling carcass?
You can stand next to me. I'll be the one eating the bowl of Lucky Charms.
I workout for 30-45 minutes 5 days a week. One day a week, I'll have a 90 minutes session (I take a spin class with all my friends and the we sometimes go for a run together). I also sit on the couch and watch tv a lot. I'm 29 years old, a mother, and I can maintain on 2500 cals a day. Right now, I'm cutting on about 2000.
I used to think like you OP. I used to believe that "those people" had achieved some sort of success that I could never dream of. I thought "I'll lose some weight and look better, but I'll never look good." I'm happy to report that I was wrong. Once I gave myself the freedom to pursue my goals without worrying about whether or not I could do it, things really fell into place. Can I eat all junk all the time? No. I don't want to either. But I can say that I'll eat three slices of pizza tonight for dinner and that's fine. It's fine because I balanced my choices today. Greek yogurt for breakfast, salad for lunch, string cheese and pineapple for snacks. IIFYM doesn't mean shove fast food down your gullet all day every day. It means being able to have some of that stuff sometimes because it's not a big deal in the big picture. As long as I'm meeting my macros and getting my nutrition, a little bit of "junk" now and then doesn't hurt. Even if you don't spend two hours in the gym.0 -
You're making it sound like those people are so extraordinary and spend hours and hours in the gym. They're still normal people, they just have discipline and are consistently working hard while still enjoying life.
Some of those 'normal folks' you're talking about have trouble sticking with a diet precisely because it's so strict.
But please, continue talking about them like they're freaks of nature, it's helping your point.
All this right here. I spend 60 mins working out 3x per week and 15-30 mins working out on 3 other days. It's not exactly superhuman to get in 45 mins of exercise 6 days per week. I don't even run. So yes, please stop acting like people that get in shape are from a different planet or something. A lot of the "super shape" people have 'before' photos that would blow your mind with how out of shape they were when they began.
I ask you a counter question: Since it's known that most people fall off the diet wagon because it's too restrictive and they end up missing their favorite foods, what is so wrong with telling them that they can lose weight while continuing to eat things they enjoy? So many threads here are "OMGZ I BINGED THIS WEEKEND AND ATES A DONUT SO NOW I WANT TO GIVE UP." And we're like, "Meh, whats wrong with donuts, don't panic, eat your normal calorie deficit today and you'll be fine."
In one corner I see a bunch of people achieving incredible results without stressing out, having a good time, telling jokes, and making post after post trying to help people. In the other corner, I see a bunch of people stressing out about invisible nutritional boogeymen, panicking if they don't have access to "clean" foods, having anxiety attacks about eating a company functions and family holidays, and continually dropping from the site because they had two days of fast food so they quit everything.
I know which corner I want to stand in. How bout you?
*applause*
I have a fairly low TDEE compared to most (I maintain on 1700 plus exercise calories). I'm also chronically ill. I don't have an active job. I work out lifting weights 3 times per week for around 45 minutes, and I try to get in some cardio on my days off from lifting. Usually it's just walking. I still find room for food I love. It's kind of a game-- to make sure I hit my macros, get in some veggies, and still have room for ice cream or peppermint patties. It can be done even on a moderate caloric intake, and I've approached it this way pretty much since day 1. I've always known that trying to eat "clean" would result in burn-out. Personally I'm very glad that people like DavPul were around when I was a newbie to tell me that there was another way to be successful.0 -
....people that are condoning and even promoting eating dirty and super high calorie foods that have not much to offer from a nutritional or calorie defecit standpoint.
LOL.
Yet another among a long line of people who learned "nutrition" reading the side of a cereal box that don't know the difference between MACROnutrients and MICROnutrients.
Saying that something is high calorie yet offers nothing from a nutritional standpoint is pretty much an oxymoron. A hilariously wrong bastardization of a first world problem.
The obsession with micronutrients among some is way off base, especially since the same types link nutrition with obesity.
The following:
Slim and fit people are healthy
Eating healthy foods will make me healthy
Therefre eating healthy foods will make me slim and fit
.
...is unfortunately a logical fallacy and will not work (unless you accidentally luck into doing things that do work unbeknownst to you).
Health food is a myth. Everything can be health food or junk food, it depends on context.0 -
From Yoovie, who should be allowed to post in the main forums again
#freeyoovieI think that many people assume that the 5000 (although it think it's more like 3000) calorie guys and girls are always advocating eating junk and eating dirty food.
1. They dont get all their calories from junk - most of their diets are 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs or similar, macros people are always trying to match or meet. They dont say EAT CRAP! They say - you don't have to NOT eat it. I eat pizza 4 or 5 times a month. I eat ice cream whenever I want, I get fudge rounds and bagels with bacon eggs and cheese. I need to in order to get enough protein and fat and carbs. But MOST of the food I eat is nutritionally insane. Those on high calorie diets neeeeed that fuel for insane daily workouts. They dont cram their faces with junk. They just dont. And they have a different opinion of what junk food is. Most newbie dieters think of junk food as ALL high calorie foods, and bacon, ice cream, whole milk, pasta, burgers, etc - for a lot of us (and I use US lightly cause I SHOULD be eating a lot but yall know I suck at eating) these things are almost necessary. I see junk food as stuff like ramen noodles or chef boyardee that have nothing to offer me but calories and sodium. I eat tons of home cooked meals. I just have to.
2. By the time you get to the point where you need that many calories - you just are not a beginning dieter with triggers and behaviors you are learning to modify. That is the difference. Most of those people are used to being in the gym consistently for many months or years by now, and dont really have newbie food issues anymore because we dealt with them already or never had them. Make sense?
Just because they say we eat bacon and cheese burgers and burritos the size of our faces, does not mean they eat badly.
Newbs just hear those words and think -excessive gluttony- when it simply isnt the case.0 -
Very well said. Thank you!Honestly, I had to stop calling foods "trigger" foods. That gives food power that it doesn't have. I am in charge of what I put in my mouth. I used to say that I couldn't keep ice cream in the house because I had to eat the whole thing. No I didn't. That's BS. I am perfectly capable of weighing out one or two servings (whatever fits in my day) and enjoying my treat. I'm not a victim to food. I make my choices.
You'll find that most of the people who encourage people to eat "dirty" follow more of an 80/20 plan. I aim to make 80% of my food choices healthy, whole, homecooked foods. But this still allows me to enjoy my favorite foods at the end of the day. Sure, I can't eat the same number of calories as a man who is on a bulk cycle, but that still leaves me plenty of room to get fast food once in a while or enjoy my favorite sweets.0 -
Most important part of any diet is adherence, the more strict the diet, the less adherence has been shown to be. So it'd prob be irresponsible not to promote the most flexible way of dieting.
This a million times.0 -
Truth. Also, this cannot be seen as a diet if you want lasting effects. Only give up things that you are willing to give up forever. I am unwilling to give up beer, cheese and pizza. I will, however, eat less of it and move more.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all times and circumstances, but I understand the basis on which you're making it.
(Sorry, I don't mean to derail the more general discussion...this is just one of those points that is made frequently on MFP with which I have just a slight disagreement.)0 -
I think the biggest thing that this is supposed to be a lifestyle change and not a diet. A lot of people have an 'all or nothing' mentality. That mentality is not sustainable in the long run. I eat healthy 80% of the time and indulge when I can. Which is a huge change from eating healthy only 20% of the time. That is why I am here and I thank those who took the time (like Lea, DavPaul, Sara and Sidesteel and so many others) to come on the forums and educate people like me and get me out of the 'all or nothing' mentality. Everything in moderation~
Thanks again to those who take their time to educate and put good information on the boards. You have made my lifestyle change so much better now. :flowerforyou:0 -
Most important part of any diet is adherence, the more strict the diet, the less adherence has been shown to be. So it'd prob be irresponsible not to promote the most flexible way of dieting.
This a million times.
Yes, this is the perfect answer.0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids. Shall I just tell my kiddos "good luck while I'm gone!" And go do whatever I like for the day? And I didn't judge anyone. And you are adding things that I didn't even say. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said it takes time to achieve the calories expenditure to be able to eat garbage still look good. Once a person gets a certain amount of muscle mass and has established a certain fitness level they will have a higher rate of calorie burn. Don't act like you don't know this. You must be one of the ones that like to inflict yourself upon those who are not in lock step with you.Totally agree. Not everyone has two hours a day to spend at the gym. Not everyone can just abandon their children and go for a 10 mile run. Many of these folks just refuse to understand that it does take work to achieve the kind of calorie expenditure required to be able to eat massive quantities of junk and still look like Johnny Bravo or who ever. This is accumulated over TIME and no one is going to look like they were chiseled from marble in a month unless they didn't have that far to go to start with. This is SUPPOSED to be a good place to get help, advice, support and such, but honestly I have been belittled more about my weight, my actual weight loss etc... HERE than I have been in my personal life. I think it all boils down to ego in here. The biggest egos are the ones in here inflicting themselves on others. I have weeded most of them out and hit the ignore button on them so I simply don't have to watch as they rip people apart just to make them selves feel even bigger.
You say this as you judge others as irresponsible parents who leave their children to strive for the selfish goals of being shredded.
You are completely wrong in your thought process. It doesn't take hours upon hours to burn fat. Eat at a deficit. Eat mostly nutritious foods and, IF, you have some room left or have budgeted for it, treat yourself to something you enjoy. Also, exercise can consist of 45 minutes 3 times per week to achieve these goals.
And by the way, I don't eat food that I don't enjoy anyway. I happen to thoroughly enjoy the food I eat. Those of you who spend your days eating food you do not enjoy, just so you can have a measly scoop of ice cream later are sad in my opinion. I eat what I like, it may not be what YOU like, but It is what I like.
Just because you can't get in shape doesn't mean that the people who do bail on their family obligations. Some of those very fit people have children, and they make it work.
You're creating an excuse for how people can exercise moderation and still get in shape, many do so without spending half their day at the gym, and many are able to achieve solid and consistent results right off the bat, before they develop tons and tons of muscle mass.
Moderation works, discipline works. Calling successful people bad parents who spend all their time at the gym does not.0 -
Truth. Also, this cannot be seen as a diet if you want lasting effects. Only give up things that you are willing to give up forever. I am unwilling to give up beer, cheese and pizza. I will, however, eat less of it and move more.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all times and circumstances, but I understand the basis on which you're making it.
(Sorry, I don't mean to derail the more general discussion...this is just one of those points that is made frequently on MFP with which I have just a slight disagreement.)
It's all good. I understand that this is not a universal truth. I just dislike that idea that if I stop eating this for a while, I will get fit. While true, you will lose weight from changing that behavior, what happens when you come off your diet and resume that behavior? It is better to learn how to live within your wants and needs rather than just cutting things out until you reach some predetermined goal.0 -
I'm going to toss in my unwanted $.02 here as well. I'm not in the "fit and fabulous" category...yet. However, many of the people you are referring to are on my friends list, why? Because
1) they've reached the goals that I want to reach
they did it in a way that I believe to be sustainable long term and
III) they have an "enjoy life" attitude.
As far a I'm concerned this is life, and with that comes birthday parties, nights out with friends, days you just feel all munchy and want to eat all the thingz, holidays, family reunions, special occasions, anniversaries, first dates, work lunches, church socials...stuff. I have read too many posts about "OH NOES!!! Thanksgiving!! or Easter!! or Christmas!! or My friends actually want to go to a restaurant!!!! What do I DO!!!????!!! And the answer they come up with is going to their parents or where ever for Thanksgiving bringing a salad from home and saying they're only going to take 3 oz. of turkey to go with their salad. Is that how you want to live? Really?
If you can't understand that one day or one week isn't going to unravel the work you've done overnight, then you have much bigger issues to worry about. If you're so focused on that number on the scale and not about living a full and happy life..then more power to you. Hope it all works out for you. Me on the other hand? I know its long term. I know this is going to take a while and to get where I want I'm going to have to work for it...or more accurately...I'm going to have to pay attention. I'm thinking what am I going to weigh and look like next year...not tomorrow, not next week, not next month. The weight will come off, I have no doubt at all. Am I in a hurry? Nope. I have faith that counting calories and hitting my goals at least 85%-90% of the time and hitting the gym my 3 days a week will continue to give me the success that I am already enjoying. If things begin to stall out over the course of 2-3 months, then I will make some slight changes..which may, contrary to popular belief, my include INCREASING my calorie intake instead of decreasing it.
I'm participating in the Warrior Dash this coming Saturday. If you had asked me about running any 5K, let alone a mud run type 5K, this time last year, I would bust out laughing for a least 5 minutes and called you stupid. Now I'm eager and ready to see what I can accomplish. I am also looking forward to signing up for more before competing in my first one. I can do it. I know I can.
Just this past Tuesday I probably had about 3000 calories over my daily limit, it was just one of those kinds of days. 4 donuts, 2 cupcakes, candy bars, fish sticks, pasta, tater tots, and other sorted "unclean" stuff. It happens for me on occasions.. Do I stop or beat myself up or beg for help because I'm broken? No. It happened. It's a very minor set back (if any at all) and so I lose .5 lbs this week or .25 lbs or stay the same this week? So? I don't care if I gain a 1 lb or 2...which isn't actually possible because overall I'm still at a deficit.
I'm losing and I'm having fun doing it. I enjoy working out, I enjoy eating, I enjoy my life. This isn't a hard terrible thing.
Eat what you want, clean, unclean, paleo, vegan, eat like that guy you know....it doesn't matter. Just do it in a way that you can enjoy life while your at it and not make everyone around you think they have to walk on egg shells because they brought the cake that you can't have...or won't have. Don't insult your host by bringing your salad to Thanksgiving because you are the one trying to lose weight or whatever and you make them feel like it's their fault you got fat in the first place.
Learn some self control, take responsibility for yourself because nobody else has too.0 -
That is a man in a bra...
Thank you, Captain Obvious. They were making a point, and well played. Well played
I'm just saying, they went to the trouble to keep the tattoo or markings consistent right below the bra, they could have shopped some panties on him and added long brown hair....0 -
FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids. Shall I just tell my kiddos "good luck while I'm gone!" And go do whatever I like for the day? And I didn't judge anyone. And you are adding things that I didn't even say. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said it takes time to achieve the calories expenditure to be able to eat garbage still look good. Once a person gets a certain amount of muscle mass and has established a certain fitness level they will have a higher rate of calorie burn. Don't act like you don't know this. You must be one of the ones that like to inflict yourself upon those who are not in lock step with you.Totally agree. Not everyone has two hours a day to spend at the gym. Not everyone can just abandon their children and go for a 10 mile run. Many of these folks just refuse to understand that it does take work to achieve the kind of calorie expenditure required to be able to eat massive quantities of junk and still look like Johnny Bravo or who ever. This is accumulated over TIME and no one is going to look like they were chiseled from marble in a month unless they didn't have that far to go to start with. This is SUPPOSED to be a good place to get help, advice, support and such, but honestly I have been belittled more about my weight, my actual weight loss etc... HERE than I have been in my personal life. I think it all boils down to ego in here. The biggest egos are the ones in here inflicting themselves on others. I have weeded most of them out and hit the ignore button on them so I simply don't have to watch as they rip people apart just to make them selves feel even bigger.
You say this as you judge others as irresponsible parents who leave their children to strive for the selfish goals of being shredded.
You are completely wrong in your thought process. It doesn't take hours upon hours to burn fat. Eat at a deficit. Eat mostly nutritious foods and, IF, you have some room left or have budgeted for it, treat yourself to something you enjoy. Also, exercise can consist of 45 minutes 3 times per week to achieve these goals.
And by the way, I don't eat food that I don't enjoy anyway. I happen to thoroughly enjoy the food I eat. Those of you who spend your days eating food you do not enjoy, just so you can have a measly scoop of ice cream later are sad in my opinion. I eat what I like, it may not be what YOU like, but It is what I like.
Care.com has babysitters for $10 bucks an hour. If your husband can't possibly handle watching kids for an hour or 2 3x a week, and you can't possibly get up an hour early, or jump rope 1-2 minutes at a time for a grand total of 10 minutes while cooking dinner, or DO 25 BURPEES with your kid playing around at them, then you can hire a young 20-something college kid to monitor whichever kid isn't being babysat by the public school system long enough for you to go get some exercise. But if you want to work out, you will. It is that simple.
I have a 3 year old. I also have a 7 year old who has a 90 minute program every day after school. I work out when she goes to her jiujitsu class while my husband watches the 3 year old. When he can't do this for me, I get up early and do some rope skipping or calisthenics or some sprints outside before the world wakes up. And if I am too tired to get up, then that rope gets a little bit of use while I'm preparing the family meal at dinnertime. All while my 3 year old runs around the living room playing with her Barbies and singing We Will Rock You. And she's not being left alone for me to burn an easy 100 calories doing 10 minutes of cardio (moderate rope jumping).
Guess what? When I lost my weight, I had 2 kids at home, lived in a foreign country where I didn't speak the language, didn't have a sitter to help me except one day a week for a couple hours, and had a husband who worked 15 hour days every single weekday. I managed to get in exercise every single day. Why? Because I stopped making excuses, got up off the sofa and took the kids for a long walk to the park. If it was raining, I got out the $9 Swiss ball and the kettle bells and did some weighted yoga. I've also gotten in exercise skipping rope or doing burpees while Days of Our Lives plays in the background. A rope costs $15 at Sports Authority for a quality speed rope.
Excuses are invalid.0 -
Truth. Also, this cannot be seen as a diet if you want lasting effects. Only give up things that you are willing to give up forever. I am unwilling to give up beer, cheese and pizza. I will, however, eat less of it and move more.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all times and circumstances, but I understand the basis on which you're making it.
(Sorry, I don't mean to derail the more general discussion...this is just one of those points that is made frequently on MFP with which I have just a slight disagreement.)
It's all good. I understand that this is not a universal truth. I just dislike that idea that if I stop eating this for a while, I will get fit. While true, you will lose weight from changing that behavior, what happens when you come off your diet and resume that behavior? It is better to learn how to live within your wants and needs rather than just cutting things out until you reach some predetermined goal.
(And with this clarification, I will now gladly co-sign.)
^this0 -
I tend to stick with the crowd that has lost a lot of weight over those that have lost maybe a handful... something must be working... or maybe ice cream just has magical fat-melting abiities when consumed in tandem with pop-tarts?0
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Honestly, to answer your original question:
You won't understand until you get on the *other* side of the looking glass. It really is alice in wonderland. When you make it to a healthy bf% and have torn off all that bodyfat, when you have learned all that you need to know in order to tear off that weight, and have tried all the different ways to lose weight, learning what works for you in the process... you learn that we aren't snowflakes, and there is one rule, move. You ever heard of a fat apostle?
You learn that in fitness, consistency is the key. It's not about eating at a deficit, it's about NOT overeating. Healthy fats are good, eating carbs are GOOD, and you don't have to look at a bag of Doritos as if it's a bag of heroin. In fact, viewing Doritos as heroin is, in itself, unhealthy.
When you get near your goals, your ideas about fitness change from "how do I cut all this fat off" to "how do I feed this amazing machine"
Cutting is a hard, horrifying process that requires you to eat in a deficit, essentially, starve your body so that it eats itself. Maintaining and feeding are totally different animals. Once you step through the looking glass...0 -
i eat whatever i want, i eat processed foods, sugar loaded foods, fatty greasy foods... i just fit it into my daily calories. i also have 2 saturdays a month, that i go a little crazy with my friends / family, and possibly eat up to 5000 calories in a day (or drink them) and i have lost 70 pounds in 8 months... for those who wish to eat clean and restrictive, great, but its not a MUST... weight loss is simple, calories in / calories out... as for body comp... im not at that point right now, im focussing on weight loss... and enjoying klondike ice cream DAILY while doing it!
I will just throw this out there...start thinking body composition NOW, you will NOT be sorry. I see posts time after time from people wishing they had started sooner.
A good weight training program will make your body smaller and tighter on a calories deficit, and you will be able to fit in that next size down more quickly than you thought!
oh dont get me wrong, i weight train just as much as i do cardio, what im saying is my MAIN focus is not building muscle right now, because im eating a a large defecit to lose weight. right now, i focus on calories in / calories out, and protien... im sure in the future i will pay better attention to other macros and such, but for now, if i can fit it into my calories, its free game. if you look at one of my split pics (purple shorts / black tank), ive lost 70 pounds in 8 months, and my skin is not too lose, its definately toning as i lose... im just not focussed purely on building muscle at this point in the game.0 -
I think one very important point that I'm not sure has been addressed is the size of these people who can eat 3000/day. A fit, muscular six foot guy with low body fat who works out moderately can easily eat that much and maintain. Their bodies are big, dense with muscle, and they burn a ton of calories.
I get jealous of these people because I'm not super tall and only 120 lbs, about 22% body fat, and I just can't eat as much as heavier people because my body doesn't need that many calories to support itself and its smaller mass. Of course, if I'm active, I can burn 2000/day, but mostly I maintain around 1600. And sadly, it's a lot harder to fit in a restaurant meal or indulgent dessert into 1600 calories than into 3000. So I find it frustrating, sometimes, to read these fit people's comments about just eating a damn cookie, because for me I need to plan my whole day around stuff like that, but unless I grow six inches and/or put on a ton of muscle (which I don't want to do- I'm really starting to like my body pretty much as it is, low-normal weight and strong without a ton of visible musculature without flexing), I'm stuck with the body I have. And that body can't burn 3000 calories a day.0
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