For those on LCHF/Paleo here is a cool infographic

sweetiecorn

Feel free to wave it in the face of all those people that wonder when you're gonna "quit that crazy diet of yours"

Eat clean, enjoy



*not my infographic, obtained from dietdoctor.

sunnyskys2013

Cool!

nikilis

excess calories makes you fat. not what its made of. carry on.

nikilis

but yeh, bagels kind of suck. you go me there. I'd go for the protein any day.

GODfidence

Too bad it's false.
People twist nutrition and science to make statements
That just aren't true.
A person with a 2000 calories need who eats
50% carbs one day,and just 25% carbs the next day but eats
The exact 2000 both days will end up not gaining weight either day.
Calories in<calories out= weight loss
Calories in>calories out =weight gain
Calories in =calories in =maintenance
Carbs and fat intake are of minimal effect.

sweetiecorn

I don't think many PCOS patients with insulin resistance will entirely agree with you. I do both (eat clean and keep an eye on calories) and it's the only thing that has ever worked.

LuckyLeprechaun

cool story.

nikilis

I don't think many PCOS patients with insulin resistance will entirely agree with you. I do both (eat clean and keep an eye on calories) and it's the only thing that has ever worked.

you might want to put that with a * next to it in your main post.

in any case, the info graphic is oversimplification and also incorrect.

Sactown900

I don't think many PCOS patients with insulin resistance will entirely agree with you. I do both (eat clean and keep an eye on calories) and it's the only thing that has ever worked.

Same here and it's been working great since 1/1/13.

nikilis

I don't think many PCOS patients with insulin resistance will entirely agree with you. I do both (eat clean and keep an eye on calories) and it's the only thing that has ever worked.

Same here and it's been working great since 1/1/13.

good to hear, but you represent 4.6% of the population. infographic still wrong.

pcastagner

I got fatter on paleo because I believed this nonsense. I believed this nonsense because I didn't want to put in the effort to get fit.

I've been steadily leaning out counting calories and eating whatever the hell I want after I hit my protein goal for the day. Bread, beans, dairy, yum! Bread and other grain based products give me a supercharge that lasts a good long while.

SeaStar

Count calories, exercise, and just try not to eat much processed food for good, lasting energy. Even processed food will burn if you are tracking and exercising. None of this dieting nonsense.

Deipneus

Feel free to wave it in the face of all those people that wonder when you're gonna "quit that crazy diet of yours"

I was kind of skeptical but now that I've had that waved in my face, I'm convinced.

bacitracin

A calorie isn't a calorie isn't a calorie. Protein, fat and carbohydrates all affect your body in different ways, chemically speaking.

For some people, carbohydrates trigger overeating and binging and being on a LCHF diet can lead to steady insulin levels, reduce hunger and overall less calories taken in for the day. See: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81gPAyL9CJL.png

The human body has a very quick digestive process for carbohydrates and a very quick and easy mechanism to turn sugars and starches into fat if they are not soon used as fuel or in other scenarios. The human body has a slower way to turn excess protein into glucose and from there into fat, if it is not used. Dietary fat is very difficult to turn into body fat.

Paleo is NOT low-carb-high-fat. A ketogenic diet can be paleo, and paleo CAN BE ketogenic, but they are not one and the same. If you got fat on paleo, cool story, that's not keto. I haven't heard of a single scenario where someone following a ketogenic diet has gained body fat unless they're secretly binging on donuts and cake and bread and pasta and potatoes and candy all the time (my girlfriend had a really hard time with the amount of beef and butter I eat due to sweet tooth cravings, so she has since switched to an IIFYM calorie counting dietary restriction).

bacitracin

in any case, the info graphic is oversimplification and also incorrect.

Of course it is a gross oversimplification, meant to appeal and educate the lowest common denominator, but I fail to see how it is incorrect. Would you please enlighten me?

dressagester

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

ChanceTakr2131

Love it! (even though I'm a Pescetarian)

nikilis

in any case, the info graphic is oversimplification and also incorrect.

Of course it is a gross oversimplification, meant to appeal and educate the lowest common denominator, but I fail to see how it is incorrect. Would you please enlighten me?

carbs don't make you fat. excess caloric intake makes you fat. thats a pretty simple concept.

I'm totally for protein over carbs, but that doesn't make this infographic right.

its not carbs that make you fat. they might make its more difficult to loose weight, but it isn't carbs that make you fat.

if thats not clear, i cant help you.

bacitracin

Of course it's not carbs themselves, it's the overconsumption of carbs, and how carbs affect your body. Try to get obese overconsuming dietary fat. I'd really like to see that. The infographic pretty explicitly states that it's the response from having quick-digesting processed wheat flour that causes insulin to come out, and it's pretty accurate as far as insulin's effects. Having ONE BAGEL isn't gonna do that, I agree. People who have problems with carbs and end up getting fat from them rarely seem to have the willpower to reduce their intake that way and restrict their calories precisely because of the serotonin and dopamine released become addictive. I'm a sufferer of chronic depression. I'm very sensitive to carbohydrates causing a spike in my insulin, and releasing neurotransmitters that make me feel amazing for a while... then suddenly crashing and feeling like nothing is right in the world, and being angry for no reason at everyone and at myself. So far, donuts don't make me try to kill myself, but I do feel like absolute crap for a few days.

So... Yeah. If you don't have mental problems in the first place, you're probably fine with a bagel. For me, a ketogenic diet is better than taking prozac to balance my mood and prevent jumping off a bridge. The bonus is that since starting it, I lost almost 50lbs, my blood pressure and heart rate are amazing, and my cholesterol is perfect. I'm only deficient in vitamin D and that's probably from having an office job.

*edit for science references* http://www.livestrong.com/article/458140-do-carbohydrates-raise-serotonin-dopamine/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/340959-serotonin-and-dopamine-for-depression/

pcastagner

Of course it's not carbs themselves, it's the overconsumption of carbs, and how carbs affect your body. Try to get obese overconsuming dietary fat. I'd really like to see that. The infographic pretty explicitly states that it's the response from having quick-digesting processed wheat flour that causes insulin to come out, and it's pretty accurate as far as insulin's effects. Having ONE BAGEL isn't gonna do that, I agree. People who have problems with carbs and end up getting fat from them rarely seem to have the willpower to reduce their intake that way and restrict their calories precisely because of the serotonin and dopamine released become addictive. I'm a sufferer of chronic depression. I'm very sensitive to carbohydrates causing a spike in my insulin, and releasing neurotransmitters that make me feel amazing for a while... then suddenly crashing and feeling like nothing is right in the world, and being angry for no reason at everyone and at myself. So far, donuts don't make me try to kill myself, but I do feel like absolute crap for a few days.

So... Yeah. If you don't have mental problems in the first place, you're probably fine with a bagel. For me, a ketogenic diet is better than taking prozac to balance my mood and prevent jumping off a bridge. The bonus is that since starting it, I lost almost 50lbs, my blood pressure and heart rate are amazing, and my cholesterol is perfect. I'm only deficient in vitamin D and that's probably from having an office job.

*edit for science references* http://www.livestrong.com/article/458140-do-carbohydrates-raise-serotonin-dopamine/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/340959-serotonin-and-dopamine-for-depression/

I can easily put back 6000 cals a day in just steak. No problem. Are you seriously saying I wouldn't get fatter Ike that?

bacitracin

Really? I top out at about 3000 calories a day in steak. I just physically can not fit anymore in my body. Carbohydrates on the other hand, I think I topped out at about 8000 one time. That was a good day. ;D

I'd like to see an experiment with someone following a standard 65% fat calories, 30% protein calories, 5% carbohydrate calories diet at a caloric surplus. So far, I have yet to communicate or discover of anyone following such a diet who has increased body fat percentage.

medic2038

I agree with both camps in this thread.

Insulin itself isn't the devil, it's plenty beneficial and without it you'll die.

Too much insulin for too long however will make you fat (or at least gain fat easier).

I would wager that even despite absence of an official "diagnosis" there's plenty of people walking around with SOME degree of insulin resistance (I looked at a thing from the American Diabetic Association earlier that had data saying roughly 20% of the population was "borderline" or "pre-diabetic) however don't qualify as type 2 diabetics. IR is a metabolic disorder and throws the calories in/out, out of whack.

Thermodynamics doesn't magically disappear in humans. Metabolism however is very nuanced and hormones play a huge part in that.

pcastagner

Really? I top out at about 3000 calories a day in steak. I just physically can not fit anymore in my body. Carbohydrates on the other hand, I think I topped out at about 8000 one time. That was a good day. ;D

I'd like to see an experiment with someone following a standard 65% fat calories, 30% protein calories, 5% carbohydrate calories diet at a caloric surplus. So far, I have yet to communicate or discover of anyone following such a diet who has increased body fat percentage.

I have a gift lol


The fattier the cut, the better. If you have leg of lamb out, I can finish it by morning. The. Whole. Leg.

myofibril

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

Did you actually read the thesis?

I pretty much agree with much of it. It states that a Paleo style diet has many positive characteristics to application for obese / type II diabetic populations to include high levels of satiety, freedom from the burden of calorie counting, glycemic control and favourable body composition all whilst eating ad libitum.

It quite rightly in my opinion raises the question of whether healthy, active populations should be ramping up fat intake in particular excessively (I don't think they should unless there is a specific medical reason to crowd out carbs and replace with something else and the thesis readily acknowledges that further study is necessary to determine if macronutrient control should be advised upon - I think yes.)

Finally you will note the limitations in terms of determining what will happen over the long term, the lack of control of food intake and the modest amount of food logs returned (only 8) which was then extrapolated across the whole group.)

Double finally, I think the infographic is a bit simplistic as well.

neanderthin

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

Not peer reviewed, no medical journals, just school work. It's a thesis that can be found on Denman Undergraduate Research Forum.

ohmscheeks

I am not LCHF/Paleo, but I eat bacon and eggs for breakfast most days.

pcastagner

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

Did you actually read the thesis?

I pretty much agree with much of it. It states that a Paleo style diet has many positive characteristics to application for obese / type II diabetic populations to include high levels of satiety, freedom from the burden of calorie counting, glycemic control and favourable body composition all whilst eating ad libitum.

It quite rightly in my opinion raises the question of whether healthy, active populations should be ramping up fat intake in particular excessively (I don't think they should unless there is a specific medical reason to crowd out carbs and replace with something else and the thesis readily acknowledges that further study is necessary to determine if macronutrient control should be advised upon - I think yes.)

Finally you will note the limitations in terms of determining what will happen over the long term, the lack of control of food intake and the modest amount of food logs returned (only 8) which was then extrapolated across the whole group.)

Double finally, I think the infographic is a bit simplistic as well.

If you apply a food restriction to an obese person, and it eliminates some of their habitual high calorie foods, they will lose weight for a time. And voila, your numbers look good.

Actual long term experience though, shows that one simply adapts to the new restriction and the pattern of overeating resumes, with the associated increase in body fat.


In my case, paleo didn't eliminate my habitual overeating foods. So I just got fatter.


It's counting calories that set me free, along with 18:6. I can effectively maintain without tracking on an 18:6 schedule, using what I learned from calorie counting. However, when I try to cut, I find myself overdoing my deficit unless I track calories.


How many times do we have to read the story of someone doing well for a time on paleo, then stalling out or gaining again? Paleo is fine if you can afford it, but there is nothing magical about it that allows you to defy basic thermodynamics. Put more energy into a system than you take out, and it grows.

neanderthin

I don't think many PCOS patients with insulin resistance will entirely agree with you. I do both (eat clean and keep an eye on calories) and it's the only thing that has ever worked.

you might want to put that with a * next to it in your main post.

in any case, the info graphic is oversimplification and also incorrect.

They seems to have forgotten that before carbs are stored as fat that ATP is produced first, then glycogen is stored in our muscle and that's 400g's of carbs, probably more. And if all that is taken care of and your immediately storing carbs as adipose tissue, then you should back away from the buffet.:happy:

neanderthin

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

Did you actually read the thesis?

I pretty much agree with much of it. It states that a Paleo style diet has many positive characteristics to application for obese / type II diabetic populations to include high levels of satiety, freedom from the burden of calorie counting, glycemic control and favourable body composition all whilst eating ad libitum.

It quite rightly in my opinion raises the question of whether healthy, active populations should be ramping up fat intake in particular excessively (I don't think they should unless there is a specific medical reason to crowd out carbs and replace with something else and the thesis readily acknowledges that further study is necessary to determine if macronutrient control should be advised upon - I think yes.)

Finally you will note the limitations in terms of determining what will happen over the long term, the lack of control of food intake and the modest amount of food logs returned (only 8) which was then extrapolated across the whole group.)

Double finally, I think the infographic is a bit simplistic as well.

How many times do we have to read the story of someone doing well for a time on paleo, then stalling out or gaining again? Paleo is fine if you can afford it, but there is nothing magical about it that allows you to defy basic thermodynamics. Put more energy into a system than you take out, and it grows.

That's true for 90% of diets and has nothing to do with the actual diet but the person ability to adhere to that diet. People even fail lifestyle changes, why because it's hard to break old habits.

pcastagner

Cute infographic or peer reviewed medical journal?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985705-paleo-diet-assoc-with-negchanges-to-bloodlipid-in-healthysub

EDIT: I don't respond well to things waving in my face. Unless it's pie.

Did you actually read the thesis?

I pretty much agree with much of it. It states that a Paleo style diet has many positive characteristics to application for obese / type II diabetic populations to include high levels of satiety, freedom from the burden of calorie counting, glycemic control and favourable body composition all whilst eating ad libitum.

It quite rightly in my opinion raises the question of whether healthy, active populations should be ramping up fat intake in particular excessively (I don't think they should unless there is a specific medical reason to crowd out carbs and replace with something else and the thesis readily acknowledges that further study is necessary to determine if macronutrient control should be advised upon - I think yes.)

Finally you will note the limitations in terms of determining what will happen over the long term, the lack of control of food intake and the modest amount of food logs returned (only 8) which was then extrapolated across the whole group.)

Double finally, I think the infographic is a bit simplistic as well.

How many times do we have to read the story of someone doing well for a time on paleo, then stalling out or gaining again? Paleo is fine if you can afford it, but there is nothing magical about it that allows you to defy basic thermodynamics. Put more energy into a system than you take out, and it grows.

That's true for 90% of diets and has nothing to do with the actual diet but the person ability to adhere to that diet. People even fail lifestyle changes, why because it's hard to break old habits.

I adhered 100% to paleo restrictions but didn't limit portions. I ate like a fat caveman. I don't have a photo of the results because I was too embarrassed to take one. That's when I started doing real research not aimed at finding a loophole that would allow me to get out of portion control and continue my overeating.

Now I adhere 100% to portion control and don't restrict food choices beyond the high protein requirement.

Since paleo "frees you from calorie counting" it will, unless one also practices calorie restriction to actually lose weight consistently in the long term, also free you from the burden of having a six pack. Further, eating carbs including wheat and other grains, as well as legumes, will not interfere with fat loss or encourage new fat stores.

I find it laughable when someone practices calorie restriction, reaches their goals, then attributes it to a magic diet based on pseudoscience. The underlying agent of change is application of the laws of thermodynamics to create a less complex energy system by letting out some energy at a faster rate than it is put into the system. Yes, food choices can make slight changes in composition, but if you switch to paleo and don't actually apply a calorie deficit, that is exactly what you get: small changes.

pcastagner

.