"You can't build muscle on a calorie deficit"

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  • AntWrig
    AntWrig Posts: 2,273 Member
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular
    No point man. She is blinded by the archaic BMI.
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    As an example of irrational thinking for others to avoid, it's worth its weight divided by its height in gold
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Btw, using calipers gives you data to calculate LEAN MASS or NONFAT MASS, not muscle. Lean mass is only partially muscle.

    They are also pretty inaccurate much of the time, depending on the user and the distribution of BF.
  • KimLee76
    KimLee76 Posts: 89
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular

    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.
  • AntWrig
    AntWrig Posts: 2,273 Member
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    Btw, using calipers gives you data to calculate LEAN MASS or NONFAT MASS, not muscle. Lean mass is only partially muscle.

    They are also pretty inaccurate much of the time, depending on the user and the distribution of BF.
    Bingo.
  • JisatsuHoshi
    JisatsuHoshi Posts: 421 Member
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    You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

    But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

    1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
    2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
    3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

    Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

    Good info here. Yes you can gain strength or preserve what you have while on deficit. This has been the case for me a few months back. I did a cyclical ketogenic type diet and ate at deficit. Lifted heavy + cardio daily. I did not gain much lean muscle mass but I did tone up and strength shot through the roof.
  • KimLee76
    KimLee76 Posts: 89
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    As an example of irrational thinking for others to avoid, it's worth its weight divided by its height in gold

    Considering I never once said I was intentionally losing muscle, the fact it's the premise of this "discussion" is even better.

    I said I noticed I was losing muscle as well as fat, and I later addressed it through strength training. As far as that goes, I noticed when I started gaining weight and didn't address it until later, but no person in their right mind could conclude that meant that I was trying to gain weight.
  • Ashleyxjamie
    Ashleyxjamie Posts: 223 Member
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    You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

    But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

    1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
    2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
    3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

    Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

    this
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular

    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.

    Nope. I started out fat with no muscle.


    Muscular means having lots of muscle.


    Fact still remains, bmi is not a good tool for gauging progress.
  • crista_b
    crista_b Posts: 1,192 Member
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    Considering I never once said I was intentionally losing muscle, the fact it's the premise of this "discussion" is even better.
    Actually that's exactly what you said.
    First few weeks: Moderate cardio only; lost roughly equal percentages of fat and muscle
    Next few weeks: Upped cardio; lost a higher percentage of fat but was still losing muscle
    I let this go on for a bit
    If you were losing muscle and let it continue, you were intentionally losing muscle.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular

    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.

    Nope. I started out fat with no muscle.


    Muscular means having lots of muscle.


    Fact still remains, bmi is not a good tool for gauging progress.

    You had no muscle? How did you move?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,619 Member
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    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.
    Well I'm betting their legs and calves are for carrying around all that weight. Ever notice that even with tremendous loss of weight that practically all of them have huge calves? Progressive overload with calorie surplus did that.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular

    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.

    Nope. I started out fat with no muscle.


    Muscular means having lots of muscle.


    Fact still remains, bmi is not a good tool for gauging progress.

    You had no muscle? How did you move?

    I used my powers of not taking **** so literally you are unable to comprehend colloquial English.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
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    Just because I had a lot of muscle doesn't mean I was muscular

    "Muscular" has the connotation that there is a high PERCENTAGE of muscle in the body which is why it is not uncommon to hear weight lifters described as muscular. A morbidly obese person has a lot of lbs of muscle in their body but that doesn't mean its a high percentage; by your definition, everyone biggest loser contestant is muscular.

    Nope. I started out fat with no muscle.


    Muscular means having lots of muscle.


    Fact still remains, bmi is not a good tool for gauging progress.

    You had no muscle? How did you move?

    I used my powers of not taking **** so literally you are unable to comprehend colloquial English.

    I LOL'd

    You need to take your PC in, I think the sarcasm detector is broken.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
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    Some people can build muscle while on a deficit. Those who are new to lifting might build a small amount. For the most part we lift while dieting to preserve muscle and gain strength.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html



    And as for 1200, why would anyone want to eat that low? If I can lose weight eating 2000 calories, you bet I'm going to eat 2000 calories, not 1200.

    I have eaten that low because that is what it took for me to lose weight. I'm maintaining now, and you can bet I'm not eating 2000 calories a day, unless I've been out hiking all day. If you can lose weight on 2000 calories a day, more power to you. Just don't judge me.
  • mrhituptony
    mrhituptony Posts: 2
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    Don't bears eat fish? Most BEARS are omnivores....they get their fish oils! Don't HATE!
    :P
  • danger2oneself2
    danger2oneself2 Posts: 340 Member
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    all I gotta say is "I've done it" some say it's impossible but I feel like that would only be if you have absolutely no fat on your frame AND you're in a calorie deficit....then you wont/cant gain muscle.

    If your body has fat reserves for energy than why couldn't you use that energy for muscle growth as well as vital body functions?? I'm confused does your fat "know" that it's energy is only for involuntary muscle fibers....Do fat cells come with brains now or something?
  • mrhituptony
    mrhituptony Posts: 2
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    I would say your first two months would be considered newb stage. Here you should focus on hypertrophy and then muscular endurance. Especially if you're not following a specific program.

    Obese is a term based on the BMI. I am obese on the BMI. Just means you are carrying around too much weight for your height. This does not take into account your fat/muscle ratio...although I have recently found a newer BMI that calculates your waist size as well. Which says I'm "normal"

    I'm 180lbs 5'6 with 16% BF. I started at 183lbs (same height) and 23%BF. For the first two months my gains were noticeable but in the grand scheme small. Now that I have gotten on a program as of the latest 3 months, gains are much more noticeable and fine tuned as weight and volume has increased.

    I would say in your first couple months depending on your goals (Caloric deficit unless bulking), you should notice an increase in energy, slight increase in muscle gains, while leaning out a bit. It's easy to lose weight, but my goal was to lose weight and gain lean mass. Which the only way you can do simultaneously is to carb cycle on your training days

    In the 3-5 month range I have noticed my chest is picked up and more pronounced. My legs are developing tear drop muscle striations. I am stronger. I am tighter in my core, my core is rock-hard. Definition and striations have increased around shoulders and upper body as well.

    I still have fat around my lower pec's in front of my arm pits, and a much smaller spare tire around mid section. Just keeping the work going, giving it my all, and as a shout out, I have been on Intermittent Fasting for about a week and a half. 16/8 fast every day. I love it. and definitely has helped me reach my caloric goals, as well as drop about 1-2% BF in a week.

    Best of Luck!

    Much chi
  • ryandeceptacon
    ryandeceptacon Posts: 26 Member
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    The bro-science is unbearable, here haha. You cannot grow muscles in a calorie deficit. Through weight training you generally will be losing fat which will, in turn, reveal "muscle". You simply cannot build muscle at a deficit.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,619 Member
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    all I gotta say is "I've done it" some say it's impossible but I feel like that would only be if you have absolutely no fat on your frame AND you're in a calorie deficit....then you wont/cant gain muscle.

    If your body has fat reserves for energy than why couldn't you use that energy for muscle growth as well as vital body functions?? I'm confused does your fat "know" that it's energy is only for involuntary muscle fibers....Do fat cells come with brains now or something?
    No such thing as no fat on your frame. You'd be dead.
    You're either being anabolic (building) or catabolic (tearing down) tissue. If one is in deficit, then they are in a catabolic state. Not only does one lose fat, but also some muscle along with it. It's inevitable.
    In surplus (anabolic) one builds muscle, but also adds fat. Muscle building is an energy consuming process which is why a surplus yields better results.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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