Concealed Carry: good or bad idea

ncl1313

ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.

Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.

What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
[/quote]
[/quote]

The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.

http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]

Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.

But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.

VeganSurfer

.

Peas

craigmandu

Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:

If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.

If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.


Make of that what you will.

/thread

How many people that have been a victim of violent crime, and lived to tell about it, in turn arm themselves?

You can talk in the hypothetical all you want, but until you face a situation that shows you just how vulnerable you are, you are simply making assumptions.

I sincerely hope you never have your beliefs put to the test.

VeganSurfer

Another UK v USA thread :laugh: go outside!

BflSaberfan

@ BflSaberfan - Sorry but you are wrong. There were no armed guards at Columbine and it's too bad that there weren't. It took the police forever to get there and there was still shooting going on when they got there. Someone that wasn't a bad guy in there with a gun would have been a very good thing.

People should realize that the function of the police is to find out who committed a crime, try to find them and do the paperwork. This is not a slam on the police; they can't be everywhere. I choose to take care of my own protection to the best of my ability and it isn't with a kitchen knife.

Yes there were armed guards at Columbine, and there was police force at Columbia Tech.

OllyReeves

I don't think the death of a UK soldier gives ANYONE the right to discuss US concealed weapons laws. And how disrespectful that this is in the chit chat fun and games section

Just for the record, and so we are ABSOLUTELY clear on this point, and in absolutely no doubt....

I have the right to discuss what I want, and I do not have to be respectful about your law. Grow up you self important nincompoop.

CrazyTrackLady

I once tried to open a debate with a "friend" who was all excited about getting her new CCW permit and gun for Christmas. I wanted open, honest, thoughtful, intelligent, debate. Instead i got a lot of "It's my God given right as a Christian AND American to carry a gun and kill anyone who tries to break into my house."

Well, it might be one's right, or one's obligation, but I'm a firm believer that, when it comes down to it, VERY FEW people will actually be able to handle the psychological side effects of killing/maiming someone. If the answer is "not really", then I say a owning a gun is pointless.

AND, that gun needs to be loaded and ready to go.

Mustang_Susie

Okay, since some posters have mentioned their kids and gun safety, here's another twist:

What about Adam Lanza?
His mother was lambasted by the public for taking her "mentally unstable" son to the shooting range.

moosegt35

ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.

Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.

What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.

[/quote]

The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.

http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]

Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.

But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.
[/quote]

You said YOU couldn't keep a gun in your house because of kids, I gave you a solution. I can't control what everyone else does. I can't make sure they lock up the tylenol, cleaning chemicals, Drano, etc so that kids can't get in it and die either, which happens. Should we require all of that nonsense for those items also?

TwinkieDong

btw I have many many democrats that I have brought over to my side. We have plenty of cookies and milk and go to the gun ranges frequently.

no in all seriousness. I have had many co-workers that were so biased and misinformed and ignorant. I finally challenged them and brought them to a gun range. 98% of everyone I have ever brought to a gun range ends up buying a gun.

the problem is you cant argue with someone's imagination. This is where many of the anti's are.... in imagination world. I have a spreadsheet I created from FBI statics about gun violence, population, etc. While the news outlets would make you believe violent crimes and gun violence is on the rise, it has drastically declined while our population has steadily increased. I have taken it a step further and compared violent crime rates from the UK since the ban, and compared those rates to the US violent crime rates. SHOCKING to say the least. Oh and I got the UK crime statics from home office (UK's FBI)

I am 100% liberal but actually enjoy going to the gun range. I wont purchase one while my children are in my home still, and I agree crime rates are declining but do you think it is a result of more people owning weapons?

Liberal is a misused word.... The true Liberals are Libertarians not Democrats. lol

There are many factors as to why crime has decreased. One of them I believe is abortion. Yeah yeah crazy sounding. I was reading a book, cant think of it now. However they took the birth rates, and abortion rates and tied it to poverty. Then contributed the decline in crime to the non-existence of people that would have been in the pool of poverty.

so I think it is many factors. I do think legal gun possession and CCW does reduce violent crimes. There is a small exercise with this here in OK. Well at least I like to call it that. There are certain malls that do not allow conceal carry and those malls ALWAYS have the violent crimes happen such as rapes, robberies, etc. The ones that allow conceal carry do not have these problems.

Oklahoma like one member posted has passed open carry to where you can carry a gun out in the open in a holster if you have your conceal carry permit. Me personally I like the element of surprise so I will not open carry.

Zomoniac

Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:

If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.

If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.


Make of that what you will.

Criminals don't have the right to own a gun, but they own them anyway, and that is why I want one to fell safe. I couldn't care less how many law abiding citizens have them.

I'm not going to bother arguing the main point as we will never agree, I just wanted to thank you for being the first American I've ever come across to use "I couldn't care less" instead of the completely nonsensical (and extremely infuriating) "I could care less"

boothekm

I guess if ya'll want to ban guns, we'll have to ban butcher knives, meat cleavers, etc. too. I mean, some of ya'lls argument is that irresponsible gun owners shoot themselves, each other, leave it out for children to find, etc. Ok, people who are irresponsible with other weapons such as knives and meat cleavers can do damage too.

So if a child chokes on a toy or gives a toy to another child who chokes on it, are we going to ban toys, too????

BflSaberfan

ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.

Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.

What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.

[/quote]

The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.

http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]

Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.

But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.
[/quote]

Absolutely I am dont want to see gun bans, but more regulation would be worth looking into I believe anyways.

Silver_Star

Brb never going to America, wouldn't be able to trust anyone.

Its not the ones legally carrying that you can't trust....its all of those that carry illegally, or who "legally" cannot carry, but do anyway.

This.

KendleX

My wife and I carry. My 9 year old has a 22, and my 6 year old also shoots.

It is amazing how well kids understand firearm safety and enforce it if they see an adult/peer using one improperly. IMHO firearm safety should be a mandatory course in school.

To all the gun haters... Take a CCW class even if you are not going to ever shoot a gun. It is a wonderful amount of information about current laws, statistics, and safety.

moosegt35

Okay, since some posters have mentioned their kids and gun safety, here's another twist:

What about Adam Lanza?
His mother was lambasted by the public for taking her "mentally unstable" son to the shooting range.

She's an idiot. Mentally unstable people shouldn't own or operate guns or even cars IMO. And you could tell my looking at that freak that he was unstable.

VeganSurfer

I don't think the death of a UK soldier gives ANYONE the right to discuss US concealed weapons laws. And how disrespectful that this is in the chit chat fun and games section

Just for the record, and so we are ABSOLUTELY clear on this point, and in absolutely no doubt....

I have the right to discuss what I want, and I do not have to be respectful about your law. Grow up you self important nincompoop.

This didn't seem to be the case when I posted this thread...

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/960075-31-dead-and-over-200-injured-in-bombings-today?hl=bombings

BflSaberfan

I guess if ya'll want to ban guns, we'll have to ban butcher knives, meat cleavers, etc. too. I mean, some of ya'lls argument is that irresponsible gun owners shoot themselves, each other, leave it out for children to find, etc. Ok, people who are irresponsible with other weapons such as knives and meat cleavers can do damage too.

So if a child chokes on a toy or gives a toy to another child who chokes on it, are we going to ban toys, too????

no one here has suggested banning guns.

Mustang_Susie

I once tried to open a debate with a "friend" who was all excited about getting her new CCW permit and gun for Christmas. I wanted open, honest, thoughtful, intelligent, debate. Instead i got a lot of "It's my God given right as a Christian AND American to carry a gun and kill anyone who tries to break into my house."

Well, it might be one's right, or one's obligation, but I'm a firm believer that, when it comes down to it, VERY FEW people will actually be able to handle the psychological side effects of killing/maiming someone. If the answer is "not really", then I say a owning a gun is pointless.

AND, that gun needs to be loaded and ready to go.

Another intersting point.
Our cops are put on "administrative duty" until a deadly shooting is investigated.
I'm sure part of this time is used to deal with the psychological effects of taking another person's life.

moosegt35

Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:

If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.

If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.


Make of that what you will.

Criminals don't have the right to own a gun, but they own them anyway, and that is why I want one to fell safe. I couldn't care less how many law abiding citizens have them.

I'm not going to bother arguing the main point as we will never agree, I just wanted to thank you for being the first American I've ever come across to use "I couldn't care less" instead of the completely nonsensical (and extremely infuriating) "I could care less"

That phrase drives me crazy too