Concealed Carry: good or bad idea
Replies
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Brb never going to America, wouldn't be able to trust anyone.
Its not the ones legally carrying that you can't trust....its all of those that carry illegally, or who "legally" cannot carry, but do anyway.
Really? Because I'm not too concerned with thugs that shoot each other (I know innocent victims to get hit sometimes but it is rare) But I have heard of PLENTY of mass murders where legal registered weapons were used, or even accidental shootings where the "responsible" gun own left their loaded weapon within arms reach of a 4 year old.....
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
Thugs never rob innocent victims? Give an example of where a legally registered weapon was used for a mass murder by the person that had it registered please. Also, "responsible gun owners" don't leave their guns where kids can get to them, so we can throw that one right out the window.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep. I am glad you can speculate how someone being armed at a mass shooting would have ended, you should start a psychic hotline. So you are telling me that the mass murderer has no problems hitting his moving targets but a trained citizen that was armed wouldn't have been able to hit a moving target? By the time the police get there the shooting will likely be over so if you are the one who is legal it's easy to just put your gun down and explain the situation.
I would love to see that statistic also. 1 post shows you are completely uneducated about firearms.
Your first sentence shows me debating with you would be pointless. No where did I indicate that thugs NEVER rob people. Robbing people and killing people are two different things. I would not shoot someone to keep my wallet. I have children in my home what kind of moron would I be if I had a loaded easily accessible weapon in my house? The chances of a home invasion are slim to none so I dont worry about that too much anyways. A mass murderer is shooting wildly into a crowd, much different that trying to shoot 1 person out of a crowd. There were armed guards at Columbine, it didn't make 1 difference.
Your first sentence was "I don't worry about thugs that shoot each other" Well guess what, they shoot other people too. How do you know that after they rob you they won't shoot you? you don't. It doesn't have to be easily accessible for the children. For 50 dollars you can buy a safe that only opens for YOUR hand. Statistics on the chances on a home invasion being slim to none please. That will wildly depend on where you live. And this thread is about conceal carry, not home invasions. What are the chances of something happening while you are not at home? Not all mass murderers are shooting wildly into a crowd BTW, the school shooting not long ago the guy was just walking down the halls shooting people at will.0 -
I carry a spare tire, I wear a life jacket, I have smoke detectors in my home. Why wouldnt I too carry a side arm?0
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I am in support of concealed carry.
I think that a civil, ordered society that encourages high personal standards and self-reliance is good for everyone.
And there is no good reason to prevent intelligent, cautious, law abiding citizens from protecting themselves with a lethal weapon on account of the actions of .01% of the population.
I also think that gun ownership is a mark for equality for women. Here's my reasoning: Physically females are an average of 40% weaker in the upper body than men but disproportionately the target of violent and sexual crime. Geographically most rural and suburban homes are more than 5 miles away from the nearest police station. These odds place a victim at a disadvantage. One of the best ways that a woman can defend herself in the midst of a violent crime is to use a quick acting, deadly weapon to cause bodily harm from a distance. Pepper spray works from about six feet away and requires a direct hit. And once it gets to hand - to - hand, most females will lose. So a gun would be an advantage if a perpetrator breaks into a private home, but less of an one if he grabs a stranger off the street.
Regardless, is very important for all honorable people - no matter what their gender or body strength - to have the ability to protect themselves. Some people are afraid of guns and gun owners. They have every right to take their chances.0 -
Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:
If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.
If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.
Make of that what you will.
/thread0 -
I don't think the death of a UK soldier gives ANYONE the right to discuss US concealed weapons laws. And how disrespectful that this is in the chit chat fun and games section
Technically, no one has the right to discuss concealed weapons laws anywhere in the main forums. It's considered political and therefore should only be discussed within Groups.
This thread WILL eventually get locked because it is against the rules.
I'm guessing that it got put in Chit Chat because that tends to be the most lenient area where the mods are concerned... but ultimately this will be locked.
However, this thread is a perfect example of why more gun laws won't fix what's wrong with gun violence in the U.S.
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Get in line, honey!btw I have many many democrats that I have brought over to my side. We have plenty of cookies and milk and go to the gun ranges frequently.
no in all seriousness. I have had many co-workers that were so biased and misinformed and ignorant. I finally challenged them and brought them to a gun range. 98% of everyone I have ever brought to a gun range ends up buying a gun.
the problem is you cant argue with someone's imagination. This is where many of the anti's are.... in imagination world. I have a spreadsheet I created from FBI statics about gun violence, population, etc. While the news outlets would make you believe violent crimes and gun violence is on the rise, it has drastically declined while our population has steadily increased. I have taken it a step further and compared violent crime rates from the UK since the ban, and compared those rates to the US violent crime rates. SHOCKING to say the least. Oh and I got the UK crime statics from home office (UK's FBI)
I think I love you.
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@ BflSaberfan - Sorry but you are wrong. There were no armed guards at Columbine and it's too bad that there weren't. It took the police forever to get there and there was still shooting going on when they got there. Someone that wasn't a bad guy in there with a gun would have been a very good thing.
People should realize that the function of the police is to find out who committed a crime, try to find them and do the paperwork. This is not a slam on the police; they can't be everywhere. I choose to take care of my own protection to the best of my ability and it isn't with a kitchen knife.0 -
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
[/quote]
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
[/quote]
[/quote]
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe0 -
The only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. I'm armed, educated and proud.
I just don't understand this mentality. :noway:
Unarmed, educated and proud.
THIS
If this doesn't make sense then you tell me what you think will stop a bad guy with a gun.0 -
The thing about concealed carry is, it levels the playing field. Would-be criminals and those who wish to do harm with a firearm aren't likely going to be toting it around in plain sight for all to see. With concealed carry available, those criminals also do not know who else may have a weapon on them. It is no coincidence that states with concealed carry permits have a lower rate of gun violence, whereas cities (think Chicago and DC) which have gun bans (open or concealed carry) have rather high rates of crime. If criminals obeyed the law, they wouldn't be criminals!
How many americans own guns? I dont think it stops anything/anyone
There are estimated more than 80 million gun owners in the U.S., over 99% of them are law abiding citizens. 80 million gun owners, and an estimated over 300 million guns. In relation to those numbers, the number of gun violence in the US is relatively small. We hear about the bad things done with guns because that's how the media is set up...to report bad things. According to the U.N. figures, the U.S. had 9,146 homicides by firearm in 2009. Even if that number is extremely exaggerated over the course of 3 years and say there were 19,146 homicides by firearms in 2012, that would still only be %.00006 of the guns in the US used for homicide. People do use guns to kill, this is true, but guns are also used for hunting and recreation, they're collectibles to some, and hobbies to others. Guns are simply a tool, and like any other tool, can be used incorrectly to inflict pain and death. The same holds true for a screwdriver, a knife, or a hammer.
ETA: The recent attack at the Boston Marathon was not done by guns, it was done by homemade bombs. Those who have made up their mind to kill....will kill. They will find any means necessary to achieve their goal. Even though there are gun bans in the UK, that doesn't mean that their crime rate is low...it just means that other weapons are used.0 -
The thing about concealed carry is, it levels the playing field. Would-be criminals and those who wish to do harm with a firearm aren't likely going to be toting it around in plain sight for all to see. With concealed carry available, those criminals also do not know who else may have a weapon on them. It is no coincidence that states with concealed carry permits have a lower rate of gun violence, whereas cities (think Chicago and DC) which have gun bans (open or concealed carry) have rather high rates of crime. If criminals obeyed the law, they wouldn't be criminals!
How many americans own guns? I dont think it stops anything/anyone
My mom drives a silver car.0 -
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
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I could never keep a loaded gun with easy access in my home as i do have children.
[/quote]
You easily could. They make fingerprint safes, pass code, biometric, etc.0 -
My husband and i have our permits and hope to never have a need to act. We are also teaching our son and daughter how to be responsible gun owners. Criminals will get weapons and use them regardless of any gun laws. I have the right to defend myself and my family so why would i choose not to? Thats my stand on the issue.
From a young age everyone in my family has been taught not to touch guns unless necessary and if you are required to move it etc. we all knew how to check to see if it was loaded and if it was how to unload it. As we got older we knew where the guns in the house were. We never touched them b/c we never needed them. I now have a gun in my house and I will always have at least one and my children will be brought up as I was. They will know gun safety, not gun avoidance. Avoidance and lack of knowledge is what causes issues. I never want my kid to be in a position where there is a gun out and they don't know how to handle it. You never know what a friends house may hold.
My dad has always had his permit from the time he was old enough until present day. He has never had to take it out or use it or anything. Most of the time it is enough to just show that you have one. My brother has his as well and it has helped him several times. He has to go into not such great areas for his job and he carries at all times while there. There have been two times when a gang of other guys has tried something and he prevented it by just showing that he was armed. Never had to use it, hopefully never will.
I will be getting my carry license as soon as I can afford it. Black market guns are going to exist regardless and I would rather be armed against the bad guy than be at their mercy. I will always support the right to self protection through guns.0 -
Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:
If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.
If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.
Make of that what you will.
Criminals don't have the right to own a gun, but they own them anyway, and that is why I want one to fell safe. I couldn't care less how many law abiding citizens have them.0 -
I have a concealed carry permit, and support it fully. I truly hope I never have to use a weapon against another human being...but if it comes down to me, or some thug trying to turn me into fertilizer, well, you know. When I was 8 years old, I saved my mom and little sister from at least getting raped...and probably worse than that because I was able to get to my dad's gun and convince a couple guys that I would use it. If not for that gun my whole life would have been destroyed.
Wow! Thank goodness you were there and trained properly. I don't think my kids are quite ready for handguns, yet, but we have begun teaching them gun safety with their bb guns. It makes it difficult as the split time between there dad and me.0 -
btw I have many many democrats that I have brought over to my side. We have plenty of cookies and milk and go to the gun ranges frequently.
no in all seriousness. I have had many co-workers that were so biased and misinformed and ignorant. I finally challenged them and brought them to a gun range. 98% of everyone I have ever brought to a gun range ends up buying a gun.
the problem is you cant argue with someone's imagination. This is where many of the anti's are.... in imagination world. I have a spreadsheet I created from FBI statics about gun violence, population, etc. While the news outlets would make you believe violent crimes and gun violence is on the rise, it has drastically declined while our population has steadily increased. I have taken it a step further and compared violent crime rates from the UK since the ban, and compared those rates to the US violent crime rates. SHOCKING to say the least. Oh and I got the UK crime statics from home office (UK's FBI)
And what eaxctly were your findings?
This is part of what I want to hear.
Can you give me figures?
Population 311,591,917
US Violent Crimes 2011 1,203,564
Violent Crimes/100,000 386
Population 56,000,000
UK Violent Crimes 2011 762,515
Violent Crimes/ 100,000 1361
*Ban on guns since 1997
Percentage higher than US 352.59%0 -
False! Part of our esteemed American tradition is having guns for defense--not just from criminals in our midst, but also to protect us from our goverment, should it get tyrannical. I know it sounds crazy paranoid but... who watches the watchmen?Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:
If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.
If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.
Make of that what you will.0 -
the good thing about concealed is, if you are the criminal, you will think twice about doing something to someone. It is better for us as a society to keep the dumb *kitten* from mugging us or raping women and crap like that, keep them guessing. Think about where alot of the crimes happen, college campuses (no guns allowed), cities that don't allow concealed carry, schools and places like that. If i was going to commit a crime, of course I.m gonna do it where I know people can't defend themselves. It's always the law abiding people that laws hurts.0
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My husband and i have our permits and hope to never have a need to act. We are also teaching our son and daughter how to be responsible gun owners. Criminals will get weapons and use them regardless of any gun laws. I have the right to defend myself and my family so why would i choose not to? Thats my stand on the issue.
From a young age everyone in my family has been taught not to touch guns unless necessary and if you are required to move it etc. we all knew how to check to see if it was loaded and if it was how to unload it. As we got older we knew where the guns in the house were. We never touched them b/c we never needed them. I now have a gun in my house and I will always have at least one and my children will be brought up as I was. They will know gun safety, not gun avoidance. Avoidance and lack of knowledge is what causes issues. I never want my kid to be in a position where there is a gun out and they don't know how to handle it. You never know what a friends house may hold.
My dad has always had his permit from the time he was old enough until present day. He has never had to take it out or use it or anything. Most of the time it is enough to just show that you have one. My brother has his as well and it has helped him several times. He has to go into not such great areas for his job and he carries at all times while there. There have been two times when a gang of other guys has tried something and he prevented it by just showing that he was armed. Never had to use it, hopefully never will.
I will be getting my carry license as soon as I can afford it. Black market guns are going to exist regardless and I would rather be armed against the bad guy than be at their mercy. I will always support the right to self protection through guns.
Interesting ideas about your kids for me to ponder.0 -
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
[/quote]
[/quote]
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]
Thank you, this is what I was trying to get at. It does seem like a reasonable solution.0 -
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
[/quote]
[/quote]
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]
Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.
But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.0 -
.
Peas0 -
Having read the thread in full there seems to be one overriding conclusion:
If everyone around you has the right to own a gun, you feel you need a gun to feel safe.
If nobody around you has the right to own a gun, you don't feel you need a gun to feel safe.
Make of that what you will.
/thread
How many people that have been a victim of violent crime, and lived to tell about it, in turn arm themselves?
You can talk in the hypothetical all you want, but until you face a situation that shows you just how vulnerable you are, you are simply making assumptions.
I sincerely hope you never have your beliefs put to the test.0 -
Another UK v USA thread :laugh: go outside!0
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@ BflSaberfan - Sorry but you are wrong. There were no armed guards at Columbine and it's too bad that there weren't. It took the police forever to get there and there was still shooting going on when they got there. Someone that wasn't a bad guy in there with a gun would have been a very good thing.
People should realize that the function of the police is to find out who committed a crime, try to find them and do the paperwork. This is not a slam on the police; they can't be everywhere. I choose to take care of my own protection to the best of my ability and it isn't with a kitchen knife.
Yes there were armed guards at Columbine, and there was police force at Columbia Tech.0 -
I don't think the death of a UK soldier gives ANYONE the right to discuss US concealed weapons laws. And how disrespectful that this is in the chit chat fun and games section
Just for the record, and so we are ABSOLUTELY clear on this point, and in absolutely no doubt....
I have the right to discuss what I want, and I do not have to be respectful about your law. Grow up you self important nincompoop.0 -
I once tried to open a debate with a "friend" who was all excited about getting her new CCW permit and gun for Christmas. I wanted open, honest, thoughtful, intelligent, debate. Instead i got a lot of "It's my God given right as a Christian AND American to carry a gun and kill anyone who tries to break into my house."
Well, it might be one's right, or one's obligation, but I'm a firm believer that, when it comes down to it, VERY FEW people will actually be able to handle the psychological side effects of killing/maiming someone. If the answer is "not really", then I say a owning a gun is pointless.
AND, that gun needs to be loaded and ready to go.0 -
Okay, since some posters have mentioned their kids and gun safety, here's another twist:
What about Adam Lanza?
His mother was lambasted by the public for taking her "mentally unstable" son to the shooting range.0 -
[/quote]
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
[/quote]
Here is the answer to your concerns.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
[/quote]
Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.
But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.
[/quote]
You said YOU couldn't keep a gun in your house because of kids, I gave you a solution. I can't control what everyone else does. I can't make sure they lock up the tylenol, cleaning chemicals, Drano, etc so that kids can't get in it and die either, which happens. Should we require all of that nonsense for those items also?0 -
btw I have many many democrats that I have brought over to my side. We have plenty of cookies and milk and go to the gun ranges frequently.
no in all seriousness. I have had many co-workers that were so biased and misinformed and ignorant. I finally challenged them and brought them to a gun range. 98% of everyone I have ever brought to a gun range ends up buying a gun.
the problem is you cant argue with someone's imagination. This is where many of the anti's are.... in imagination world. I have a spreadsheet I created from FBI statics about gun violence, population, etc. While the news outlets would make you believe violent crimes and gun violence is on the rise, it has drastically declined while our population has steadily increased. I have taken it a step further and compared violent crime rates from the UK since the ban, and compared those rates to the US violent crime rates. SHOCKING to say the least. Oh and I got the UK crime statics from home office (UK's FBI)
I am 100% liberal but actually enjoy going to the gun range. I wont purchase one while my children are in my home still, and I agree crime rates are declining but do you think it is a result of more people owning weapons?
Liberal is a misused word.... The true Liberals are Libertarians not Democrats. lol
There are many factors as to why crime has decreased. One of them I believe is abortion. Yeah yeah crazy sounding. I was reading a book, cant think of it now. However they took the birth rates, and abortion rates and tied it to poverty. Then contributed the decline in crime to the non-existence of people that would have been in the pool of poverty.
so I think it is many factors. I do think legal gun possession and CCW does reduce violent crimes. There is a small exercise with this here in OK. Well at least I like to call it that. There are certain malls that do not allow conceal carry and those malls ALWAYS have the violent crimes happen such as rapes, robberies, etc. The ones that allow conceal carry do not have these problems.
Oklahoma like one member posted has passed open carry to where you can carry a gun out in the open in a holster if you have your conceal carry permit. Me personally I like the element of surprise so I will not open carry.0
This discussion has been closed.
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