Everything in moderation? Really?

I am approaching this with the EIM mindset, but I am making a concious choice to avoid the foods that aren't going to help me reach my goals. In other words, I can still eat everything, but I choose not to on a daily basis. I love fried foods and sweets, but I choose not to eat them the vast majority of the time because they aren't going to help me be healthier. If I choose to have something that is less healthy, I only eat a very small portion of it. I think this is sensible, and it is a lifestyle I can maintain. If I said to myself "I *can't* eat that," I know I would end up binge eating that very thing and then feeling like a failure. If I think "I *can* have that, but I'm choosing not to" I feel successful and get closer to my goals.

For me, the idea of 'everything in moderation' means that I'm not denying myself anything. It's a mindset more than it is about eating whatever I want whenever I want in moderation. Long years have taught me that denial of things will just end in failure.

It's not like I'm stupid and don't know what foods are healthy and what foods aren't. I do. I know that non processed foods are more healthy than processed. But I also know that I have to work within my own stress and thought process limitations.

When I restarted, while I stayed within calories mostly, I made poor choices in the health area. With every week I'm working at eating better. Downsizing portions of the bad stuff, up sizing portions of the good stuff, while staying in my calories.

Will I ever eat 100 percent clean and healthy. No,I'm not going to deny myself the indulgence when the cravings get too big, because if I try to, I'll binge, and comparatively a small portion of an unhealthy food on rare occasions is a heck of a lot better than binging on unhealthy foods on a more regular basis.

And if you're thinking I need more self control, you're right. I'm working on that as well.

for a lot of people, having that small portion of a trigger food just sets off the binge. Feeling that you are denying yourself is a choice. You dont have to feel denied. Your bosy certainly isnt "denied". It's only a few seconds of your taste buds that arent getting that fix. That wilkl go away when you retrain your taste buds.

Yes, you're correct in all you say there, but I think you're missing something important.

For some of us, particularly those of us who have reached my level of obesity, it's not just about the food. There is truly an aspect of mental illness involved. Screwed up thought processes that we can't suddenly change. If I could tell myself that not having my trigger foods isn't denial, and be able to sustain those choices, I'm pretty certain I'd be a heck of a lot thinner than I am now.

I can't. I've tried to fully change my eating habits in one swell foop, and what it has caused has been a period of time when I do well, which leads to a period of time when I get angry and frustrated regardless of how I mentally speak to myself, which is then followed by giving in and having 'a little' which turns into a binge.

Why on earth would I put myself through this horrible cycle again when I know I won't be successful?

I would much rather face the ridicule of people I suspect have never experienced what I live with day in and day out, and continue to do what I know is working for me.

I happen to like the feeling of success.

Show me a person who can't eat unhealthy food in moderation to satisfy cravings, and I can show you another person that can't completely cut out a favorite unhealthy food because if they try, eventually they'll end up binging on it later.

Find the way that works for you, and go with that. Both have merit. Or do both depending.

I CANNOT eat just one York peppermint patty. If I try, I'll do the food equivalent of waking up in a seedy motel in Tijuana covered in hookers and blow. I just don't eat them anymore.

Ice cream, however, if I try to completely cut out, I'll be miserable to the point of simply quitting my diet out of frustration. I try to eat some ice cream on occasion and generally do fairly well with that.

You say this as if cravings are a necessary part of our food choices. I am offering a differing viewpoint. My argument is that it *may* be possible for at least *some* people to break the pattern that is causing those cravings.

And based entirely on my n=1 research, I have found that when I do deviate from my food preferences (either out of "necessity" or "convenience"), I just do not succumb to the "quitting my diet out of frustration" feeling. Instead, I get the "okay, time to get back on track" feeling...and then I get back on track. Despite the seeming "absoluteness" of my dietary approach, I think I still maintain a perspective of the bigger picture. (Although this may entirely be an individual personality thing far more than a dietary approach thing. *shrug*)

That was entirely my point. This concept of foods in moderation is an entirely personal decision. I would argue that eating those unhealthy foods in moderation is 'better' but that's a matter of opinion (to use alcohol as a parallel, I similarly think the person who can have a few drinks on occassion has a healthier relationship with booze than the recovering alcoholic who can't have any, though there is of course nothing wrong with the recovering person's strategy since that's what he or she has to do to stay healthy). I think the reason a lot of people advocate this approach is because they, like me, believe it to be 'better' than total abstinence for just the reason I explained. Taking as an assumption that 'unhealthy' food in moderation (i.e. still allowing you to meet your nutrient and total caloric intake targets) isn't bad for you, being able to enjoy that indulgence from time to time could be seen as having a 'better' relationship with that particular type of food. At the end of the day, it entirely boils down to what works best for you individually. If you have to abstain, do that. If you have to have a treat from time to time, do that. People have been successful (and unsuccessful) with both strategies.

I'm always very confused why people worry so much about what other people do. If restricting foods works for you, do it. If everything in moderation works better, do it. Who the heck cares what works for the next person? I personally don't care what others do to lose weight - I'm focused on me and my goals.
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This^^ ... Everytime I see a thread like this one get started, I think this same thing. I can't understand why some people think it's their duty to be the lifestyle police of MFP. :huh:

Centuries worth of cultures around the world would find your statement utterly ridiculous. Food is part of life. It's part of ritual, and family, and local custom and many other things. All throughout time people found joy through food and celebration. It wasn't until the scientist got involved that food got a bad rap.

TRUTH ^^^^

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. As a recovering anorexic/bulimic, the Ed (Ed=eating disorder) in me wants me to believe that it's possible to eat anything in moderation. That's because he knows that certain foods, my trigger foods, will cause me to binge. Not eat in moderation. And on the flip side, sometimes, Ed wants me to think it's impossible to eat ANYthing in moderation so that I starve myself.

All this is to say that I think it just depends on who you are and what your relationship is with food. If you have a healthy one like my daughter, you can eat anything in moderation. She never overeats, even when we tell her she can have as much as she wants. Even on Halloween 3 years ago when we told her she could eat as much candy as she wanted! She was 5 years old, and she stopped after 2 mini chocolates!

But I have to stay away from my trigger foods. I know what they are for the most part - chips (even healthy ones), popcorn, peanut butter and oatmeal. Yes, oatmeal. I love oatmeal with sugar free/fat free chocolate pudding mix added to it, but I will make a huge bowl of it before I go to bed..and then a second bowl. Once I start...

Eating in moderation works for my daughter. She doesn't even know any other way to eat. It doesn't work for me. I have to keep away from certain foods altogether or else I binge...and sometimes purge.

I truly believe everything in moderation. I lost and am maintaining just fine, still occasionally enjoying cookies, ice cream, and french fries.

Are there certain foods I don't eat? Sure. But I don't eat them because I don't like them or they make me fell sick. I don't drink soda much these days or eat fried foods because a) they just don't taste that good to me anymore and b) the upset my stomach. But if you like a food? Eat it.

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

This! nothing is off the table for me literally, but because of MFP my dietary habits are broadening into things I wouldn't have thought to eat before. I wanted a bag of marshmallows last week... they're almost gone but they've been great! a change from jello.... then again I'm coming from the viewpoint of normal eating habits, not from those with eating disorders. I'm sure those guys have issues that need to be suited to their conditions..and I wish them all the best of luck...