Explain why "organic" is better?

It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.

So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

Generally speaking, I prefer not to eat bugs in manure. Manure can (usually?) cares E-coli. Bugs, well, they are icky (but I suppose there's nothing wrong with eating them).

You eat yeast every time you eat raised carb sources, such as bread. You eat uric acid(found in pee) each time you eat meat.

Well, every farmer I know rotates crops. Every.single.year. We rotate between wheat, soybeans,and feed corn. Granted our farmer (we lease our land to the neighbor) only does between 2K and 3K acres a year, so not a huge farming conglomerate. But all the farmers here definitely rotate their crops.

If the view of wendyterry is pro, then organic is probably just exactly the same as other foods just much much more expensive.

Chemicals equals organo phosphates - all natural you know. Or nitrogen based fertiliser, nitrogen being that really dangerous gas.


As for blind tastings of products organic versus proper conventional farming,it has be done and organic never fairs better. That's the problem with taste buds, the majority of us have very poor taste, which explains why Fast Food Outlets exist.

Originally posted by me on 22/07/12

This is my job - I inspect organic and conventional farms for a living. There are certain things which people should definately buy as organic:
1: Eggs - conventional and free range egg farmers use chemicals in the feeds called Synthatic Amino Acids - some of these are banned in the human food chain as they are carcinogens (can cause cancer) - ironically they can be used in monogastric (single stomach) animal feeds. These chemicals are banned from organic animal feeds.
2: Milk - conventiol farmers have no restriction on the amount of processed compound feed given to dairy cows - in fact they do not even have to have access to pasture - this means on some dairy farms cattle never set foot in the fields. On orgnaic farms they have to have a minimum of 60% forage on a daily basis and they have to have access to pasture when weather permits. Due to the 60% forage rule most organic dairy farmers feed red clover silage which is high in protein but as a side health benefit this also generates more omega oils in the milk produced.
3: Fruit and veg if you can afford it - some conventional lettuce for example can be sprayed 10 x - sprays banned in organic production systems.
4: meat if you can afford it especially pork and chicken - if you have ever seen a broiler house containing 30 - 100,000 birds you would never buy conventional poultry again. Organic birds have to have access to pasture and the stocking densities are massively different. Also pigs in conventional intensive systems is awful - fed and live on slatted floors with a slurry pit underneath them. Organic pigs ahve to have to have access to pasture, wallows and shade - their is nothing finer than seeing an organic pig rooting around a field.
5: GM depending on your belief and morals. 90% of conventional animals feed will contain GM modified organisms. These are outrightly banned in organic production. Use will result in instant de-certification of all production enterprises in contact with the GM product including fields which the animals have been on.

Hope this helps to enlighten your decisions,
S.

It's a complex issue, that matters for some foods much more than others.

First off, I think if you trust the government, the FDA, or massive corporations to look out for your well-being over trying to make a buck or gain more power, you're a complete idiot.

That being said, MOST of the organic companies are actually owned by those same massive corporations, like General Mills, so blindly trusting them without doing your research also makes you an idiot.

Then there's the "natural" thing. 75% of new food products released in 2011 had the word natural on the front of the box. Natural is an unregulated term, anyone can write that on their food with no backlash or sanction whatsoever.

Then there's the fact that nutrition labels are terribly regulated, and have some incredibly stupid or dangerous rules. For example, you don't have to declare trans fat if it's less than .5g, but ANY amount of trans fat is still bad for you. Also, new toxic sweeteners like Neotame (from the makers of aspartame) don't need to be declared AT ALL, due to some apparent dirty dealings the public isn't privy to.

Organic food, typically, is also far more expensive, though not in every case.

Then there's taste, I personally feel that some foods, like Apples, taste infinitely better when they're organic, but with say, bananas, I don't notice a difference at all.

There are some hardcore all-organic people on here and some hardcore big corporation/artificial sweetener/chemical apologists as well. Best thing I can tell you is to do your research, and do it thoroughly. Or just shop at Trader Joe's, because it's ridiculously cheap AND a safe bet 99% of the time.

However, that is the least of your worries. Processed food is way worse for you than non-organic produce could ever hope to be.

It's a complex issue, that matters for some foods much more than others.

First off, I think if you trust the government, the FDA, or massive corporations to look out for your well-being over trying to make a buck or gain more power, you're a complete idiot.

That being said, MOST of the organic companies are actually owned by those same massive corporations, like General Mills, so blindly trusting them without doing your research also makes you an idiot.

Then there's the "natural" thing. 75% of new food products released in 2011 had the word natural on the front of the box. Natural is an unregulated term, anyone can write that on their food with no backlash or sanction whatsoever.

Then there's the fact that nutrition labels are terribly regulated, and have some incredibly stupid or dangerous rules. For example, you don't have to declare trans fat if it's less than .5g, but ANY amount of trans fat is still bad for you. Also, new toxic sweeteners like Neotame (from the makers of aspartame) don't need to be declared AT ALL, due to some apparent dirty dealings the public isn't privy to.

Organic food, typically, is also far more expensive, though not in every case.

Then there's taste, I personally feel that some foods, like Apples, taste infinitely better when they're organic, but with say, bananas, I don't notice a difference at all.

There are some hardcore all-organic people on here and some hardcore big corporation/artificial sweetener/chemical apologists as well. Best thing I can tell you is to do your research, and do it thoroughly. Or just shop at Trader Joe's, because it's ridiculously cheap AND a safe bet 99% of the time.

What does it matter who owns the organic company??? They still have to have an independent audit to achieve and comply with the Standards and gain Certification. They do not Self Certify (that's where I come in) Your use of the terminology (complete Idiot) implies that as Organic Auditors we do not do our job. I do my job and twice I have had to have the Police present to get me off farm as I de-certfied a producer on the spot.
Natural is not organic and has nothing to do with the Organic argument.
Nutritional labels has nothing to do with Organic argument.
A little mixed up rant I feel but good you felt the need to share,

I think I know where you are coming from. Working in the natural food industry for 7 years plus now working in a conservation office where our closest partnering agency is USDA, I completely understand what you are talking about.

People just need to understand there is a difference between seeing a USDA ORGANIC certified label and just the word organic and natural thrown around on a cereal box. I actually saw a pot of coffee at a gas station that said CERTIFIED ORGANIC* then looked at the * line at the bottom of the label and it stated "*certified organic by FOTX" (I made up that acronym because I can't remember what it was) but whatever it was, it was not USDA. USDA has actual standards for what their ORGANIC label means.

Agreed. General public does not understand the difference between organic and natural, and a host of other terms and issues (haha I'm sure people get into so many of these here).

You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields.

Who is trying to feed the whole world? Isn't that part of the problem, shipping food far away on trucks, people don't grown their own anymore?

It would be difficult to have all those that live in cities grow their own food. Can't feed a family of 4 from a balcony garden. Is that a situation that needs to be resolved? I don't know. I would think that overall living in a 1000 sq ft apt uses less natrual resources (heating etc, material) than a house and an acreage for every family. Also, less use of automobiles and gas.

Advocates(tree huggers) say organic is better, health experts do not. Infact, plants themselves give off toxins that can be harmful.

Yes, the farming methods are quite different. Many of the chemical pesticides used in conventional farming do stay on the vegetable or fruit, and yes, much research has shown that quite a few of the pesticides used are known carcinogens. Some people like to avoid known carcinogens. I realize that we now live in a world where known carcinogens are everywhere, but I don’t see a problem in making attempt to avoid some of them, if you can.

The way the weeds are eliminated is different. With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil.

More on pesticides – they get into the soil and grasses that animals eat, and they most certainly get into the groundwater/drinking water. We’ve done tests. And this is not just affecting humans, it’s affecting animals. Many of the crops (soy and corn, usually) are also fed to the animals we eat and they also drink the water.

We can talk organically-fed vs. conventionally-fed animals too. There are huge differences. The main one being the feed and the use of hormones and antibiotics.

There is not enough research out there that shows organic produce is more nutritious than conventionally-grown produce, but there is some initial research out there (though I believe many of the methods used were not very sound). Hopefully more research will come out on this. I’m curious, anyway.

Many people who switch to organic produce think there is a difference in taste. Whether initially they can taste it or as they get used to it, they try conventionally-grown produce and find there is a difference in taste. The things that taste the most different to me are berries, bananas, and apples.

I buy organic when I can, because I can, and because I support the farmers and the farming methods used. I think there is plenty of evidence that it is better for the environment. Most of what I buy is also local. I do this because I want to support my community farmers. They make some damn good stuff. It's again, a taste difference. When I moved from CO to WA, a WA apple tasted different. It hadn't been on a truck for days before it got to the grocery store.

I hope you don’t think I’m being an alarmist or anything. I am just trying to explain the differences. I am not trying to force anyone to eat any differently than they do.

when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "

---

Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.

No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?