Why do people get so provoked by vegans?

@VergingOnVega
What I meant with extreme is the "forcing your opinion on others, who are definitely not worth anything, cause they're not "on your side"" that has been mentioned a couple of times in this topic.

I couldn't have said it better than this. If you are vegan and don't preach to me about it then I am all for it. If you get in my face and try to convert me, I shut you out. I eat a lot of vegetarian meals, whole foods, organic, local, and unrefined food as much as possible. I stay away from the Big Ag bad boys and try to keep the chemical laden foods out of my diet. I think I do pretty well. I find it particularly offensive when vegans try to convert me, not only because it is obnoxious but also because I take desiccated thyroid medicine, porcine derived. I will never truly be able to be vegetarian unless I convert to synthetic medicine, which does not work for me.

Some vegans make an exception for medication. There's a saying that "A live vegan activist is better than a dead vegan activist."

How is that?? It's okay to take from an "unwilling animal" to make a medication? But not okay to take from an animal for food?

Either way, you end up with dead animals.

No, I mean using any medicine. All medicine is tested on animals at some point. Not that it all contains animal ingredients.

Really? Because every vegan I have as a friend (and I have many from working in a Wildlife rescue) has made it clear that I could never truly be a vegan or vegetarian. I've even had some not so friendly vegans tell me that I am a hypocrite for rescuing wild animals and take animal derived medication. How's that for a nice vegan conversation? Granted the MAJORITY of vegans wouldn't say something like this, but it has happened to me. It's this attitude that is upsetting. If you give me respect, I will respect your decisions as well.

You are saving animals, and vegans are giving you grief? Give me their email addresses, and I will 'talk' to them! There are no perfect vegans. Tallow is an animal product in rubber--anyone riding in a car or bus is using an animal product. This is one reason I'm VergingonVegan and not Vegan. I say that all compassionate efforts count in making this world a better place. Saving wild animals who have gotten a bum deal in life counts uber-much in my book. Kudos to you!

I just have to say you rock My foster squirrels thank you for your kind comment!

A vegan diet is deficient in B vitamins without supplementation. Also, you are missing the very real benefits of whey protein with such a restrictive diet. Furthermore, meat is very filling -- so it is easier to eat less with a high-protein diet (which is considerably more difficult on a vegan diet).

A vegan diet is deficient in B vitamins without supplementation. Also, you are missing the very real benefits of whey protein with such a restrictive diet. Furthermore, meat is very filling -- so it is easier to eat less with a high-protein diet (which is considerably more difficult on a vegan diet).

I disagree. I have not yet encountered a day I was low on protein. Not sure why anyone would need a high protein diet but it is possible on a vegan diet.

Vegan diet is deficient in B vitamins, missing benefits of whey protein, and generally less filling than a diet with a higher proportion of meat.

I didn't read all 11 pages. People are always provoked by new ideas. American society has been sold on meat and potatoes for centuries and it's hard to change minds. I've cut meat way down in my diet and my family thinks I'll be voting democrat soon. Vegan is healthy, but what's more important, it opens eyes to what big companies are doing to food to make it cheaper and easier to grow.

I didn't read all of this thread either, but I think I am one of the obnoxious vegans that people are talking about here. The reality is however, that I never tell anyone what to eat, but rather I keep throwing scientific studies in their faces, showing a definitive correlation between eating meat and chronic diseases. The reactions are usually pretty strong. The dumbest ones usually say something like "studies are all slanted and skewed by researchers who have an agenda," or "you haven't proven causation - correlation does not equal causation." They ignore the fact that studies have been done since the 1940, and virtually all of them show the same thing: eating meat is correlated with deadly chronic diseases. Every reputable medical association in the world recommends eating no meat or at worse less meat.

I recently got into an on-line argument with a VEGETARIAN who was very angry at my approach. He messaged me and said, "What the Hell are you doing. What do you care what those idiots eat? They will get cancer or heart disease and die. This is Darwinism. Survival of the fittest."

I had to say he had a good point. However, I do care for several reasons:

1. I don't want to pay increased health care costs because of them.

2. I was once a meat eater, so there is hope for everyone

3. The animal suffering caused by eating meat is horrible. We are an evil species.

4. I invariably get messages or friend requests from people saying my direct approach has help them.

The latter category is worth talking about. Anyone who has studied sociology knows what "magical thinking" is. It is also known as "cognitive dissonance." People compartmentalize their thought processes and hold conflicting views. For example, some people may say, "The scientific approach is good. It has given us civilization." Yet these same people will make up excuses for not believing thousands of studies that correlate meat eating with chronic diseases. Magical thinking somehow protects them. They think these studies are either bogus, or not properly done, or in the usual words of the most statistically challenged of them, "that causation is not proven." (When asked what study they know of does prove causation, they can't give me one.)

My approach which for some reason many, many people find offensive, is simply this: Look at the science. Are longitudinal studies perfect? No. Can scientists slant or skew results? Yes. However, I really do not think they do a lot (probably the exception is those studies funded by special interest groups, because there, the outcome of the study is tied to the funding.)

In any event, until someone tells me a better source of information than massive longitudinal studies, they will inform my opinion, for better or worse.

I think they get provoked because of people doing what you did just now.

I read your entire post and have considered trying the meatless/less cooked and processed ways of eating and your information was great to read.

The problem, is the topic headline itself is provoking. It makes me defensive and I don't even care. It makes Vegans click into this forum thinking... "here goes!" and the bacon lovers think "omg another VEGAN" and then you get the drama queens and the people who just like to debate things ALL ready to go before they even read your post.

Thats like starting a thread titled: "Why are people freaking out over the HCG drops?" or "Whats so wrong with starving myself?"

Wow, how to start an argument!!!!

Why don't people just do what they do and get along!!!

I think this is a topic that should never have been started as are we not all here to achieve one thing - Lose Weight

it shouldn't matter how we each do it surely.

I care about me and my family. I want to stick around for my kids as long as possible and I want to be an asset for them, not a liability. I do this to be as healthy and fit as possible to be able to support my children both financially and physically until they can do it themselves.

If people like meat, well keep it up. The more meat for you, you can have mine and all my milk cheese and cream etc too. It doesn´t fit my lifestyle. And no- I don´t think I am better, I only do things a different way.

Its up to you to find your way to the ultimate diet that suits you and your chosen lifestyle.



Your arrogance is astonishing! If I don’t choose YOUR life style then I don’t care about my family? and obviously have some plot to become a liability to them? Your tone is offensive and ridiculous at best. I don’t need your permission to live my life as I deem responsible. And then you end your rant with –peace? HA! I want cheese on my double cheeseburger please!!!

Juist out of curiosity, do you think all the scientific studies that have definitively correlated meat eating with chronic diseases for some reason don't apply to you? Or (pick one):

1. All those studies are bogus

2. My friends and family have all done fine eating meat, so why shouldn't I.

3. Causation has not been proven - correlation does not equal causation.

4. Scientists can't be trusted.

5. Meat tastes good and nothing that tastes good can be bad for you

6. Almost 300,000,000 Americans can't be wrong.

7. If God didn't want us to eat meat, he wouldn't have put animals here and made them so tasty.

Watch "forks over knives" - it's realy impressing. Also I'm still a vegetarian and not a vegan, I eat as less animal products as milk and eggs as possible. But I also think is better for your health to eat as less processed food and animal products as possible, especially when you know which grab they put in processed stuff and with which **** they feed animals.

Watch "forks over knives" - it's realy impressing. Also I'm still a vegetarian and not a vegan, I eat as less animal products as milk and eggs as possible. But I also think is better for your health to eat as less processed food and animal products as possible, especially when you know which grab they put in processed stuff and with which **** they feed animals.

Along this line of thought, I recommend that if people have a chance everyone interested take an animal nutrition class, head over to a real farm and check it out. I'm all for the thoughtful use of medications (such as using rbst when a cow has had a dystocia and will not come into milk at as high a rate as normal rather than just pumping all the cows full of horomones and patting yourself on the back). One thing people seem surprised by is that Organic does mean "no antibiotics" even when the cow is sick.I'm uncomfortable with things like betadine being placed in a cow's uterus to treat uterine infection because the farmer can't give antibiotics. Anyone who has ever gotten iodine on a mucous membrane will tell you that's just not cool. Also, we're starting to see antimicrobial resistance to iodine at organic farms. Not a lot mind you, but any resistance is a not so great thing. This is the same reason I'm opposed to using antibiotics as feed additives for growth purposes. Rumensin is a nice product and all, but as a Doctor-to-be it scares me a bit to think about MRSA in the animal population (which we have for those that don't already know).

Don't just trust documentaries because they are skewed. If this is something you want to really change, go out, see what's out there and help people find a better way! If we all learn and work towards compromise we can improve the food chain on a MASSIVE level not just an individual basis. I firmly believe that people will change their ways hen you make it worth their while and provide sound alternatives!

I care about me and my family. I want to stick around for my kids as long as possible and I want to be an asset for them, not a liability. I do this to be as healthy and fit as possible to be able to support my children both financially and physically until they can do it themselves.

If people like meat, well keep it up. The more meat for you, you can have mine and all my milk cheese and cream etc too. It doesn´t fit my lifestyle. And no- I don´t think I am better, I only do things a different way.

Its up to you to find your way to the ultimate diet that suits you and your chosen lifestyle.



Your arrogance is astonishing! If I don’t choose YOUR life style then I don’t care about my family? and obviously have some plot to become a liability to them? Your tone is offensive and ridiculous at best. I don’t need your permission to live my life as I deem responsible. And then you end your rant with –peace? HA! I want cheese on my double cheeseburger please!!!

Juist out of curiosity, do you think all the scientific studies that have definitively correlated meat eating with chronic diseases for some reason don't apply to you? Or (pick one):

1. All those studies are bogus

2. My friends and family have all done fine eating meat, so why shouldn't I.

3. Causation has not been proven - correlation does not equal causation.

4. Scientists can't be trusted.

5. Meat tastes good and nothing that tastes good can be bad for you

6. Almost 300,000,000 Americans can't be wrong.

7. If God didn't want us to eat meat, he wouldn't have put animals here and made them so tasty.

Haha, that's the biggest bullsh*** i ever read.

1. Who said this?
2. Define "fine" (no disease at all? all living 100 years?)
3. What's a prove for you?
4. Any scientists or only the one who tell what you don't believe?
5. Nothing that tasts good, can be bad? For many people cigarettes tast really good - so they are good?
6. 3.00.000.000 can be so wrong? Come on. The number of followers say nothing about right or wrong. (as for example German history can tell you.)
7. God argument is so stupid, I can't even answer on such stupidity. It's like saying: If god didn't want rape, there would be no rapist. BULLSH***

Hello, I'm on your side! I am a vegan, and I was trying to find out which of the "magical thinking" categories the above poster was in. Read more carefully.

I disagree. I have not yet encountered a day I was low on protein. Not sure why anyone would need a high protein diet but it is possible on a vegan diet.

I would love to view your diary. Out of pure interest. I'm a vegetarian and am considering vegan .... and am interested in what a vegan's protein intake looks like.

My food diary is public, if you want to have a look. I haven't filled in all of yesterday's food yet though, so don't be shocked that it's under 1000 calories!

Wow, how to start an argument!!!!

Why don't people just do what they do and get along!!!

I think this is a topic that should never have been started as are we not all here to achieve one thing - Lose Weight

it shouldn't matter how we each do it surely.

Some people are here to get healthier overall, and not just lose weight.

For the people that prefer not to get heart disease, stroke, diabetes, etc, there is eating a proper well balanced diet that includes a lot of fresh raw fruits and vegetables.

For the people that simply want to look good temporarily, and don't care about dying of preventable disease, there are meat based diets.

It's not simply a difference of how to lose weight, it's about overall health and longevity.

Of course, studies show that high protein diets, like Atkins, decrease the chance of getting heart disease, stroke and diabetes. So, I guess meat is kind of important.

In the Horizon documentary (it's on youtube) called Eat, Fast and Live Longer the doctors stated that a low protein diet increases longevity and health. It's a very interesting programme because it deals with interval fasting and the 2:5 method that has been discussed quite a bit on these boards recently.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfna7nV7WaM

Anyway, the inclusion of 25g of soya protein a day has been shown to lower cholesterol, which is the opposite of red meat.

I care about me and my family. I want to stick around for my kids as long as possible and I want to be an asset for them, not a liability. I do this to be as healthy and fit as possible to be able to support my children both financially and physically until they can do it themselves.

If people like meat, well keep it up. The more meat for you, you can have mine and all my milk cheese and cream etc too. It doesn´t fit my lifestyle. And no- I don´t think I am better, I only do things a different way.

Its up to you to find your way to the ultimate diet that suits you and your chosen lifestyle.



Your arrogance is astonishing! If I don’t choose YOUR life style then I don’t care about my family? and obviously have some plot to become a liability to them? Your tone is offensive and ridiculous at best. I don’t need your permission to live my life as I deem responsible. And then you end your rant with –peace? HA! I want cheese on my double cheeseburger please!!!

Juist out of curiosity, do you think all the scientific studies that have definitively correlated meat eating with chronic diseases for some reason don't apply to you? Or (pick one):

1. All those studies are bogus

2. My friends and family have all done fine eating meat, so why shouldn't I.

3. Causation has not been proven - correlation does not equal causation.

4. Scientists can't be trusted.

5. Meat tastes good and nothing that tastes good can be bad for you

6. Almost 300,000,000 Americans can't be wrong.

7. If God didn't want us to eat meat, he wouldn't have put animals here and made them so tasty.

Haha, that's the biggest bullsh*** i ever read.

1. Who said this?
2. Define "fine" (no disease at all? all living 100 years?)
3. What's a prove for you?
4. Any scientists or only the one who tell what you don't believe?
5. Nothing that tasts good, can be bad? For many people cigarettes tast really good - so they are good?
6. 3.00.000.000 can be so wrong? Come on. The number of followers say nothing about right or wrong. (as for example German history can tell you.)
7. God argument is so stupid, I can't even answer on such stupidity. It's like saying: If god didn't want rape, there would be no rapist. BULLSH***

Hello, I'm on your side! I am a vegan, and I was trying to find out which of the "magical thinking" categories the above poster was in. Read more carefully.

Oh than I'm absolutley sorry for my missunderstanding.

I AM bothered by Vegans that do it for idealistic reasons. I believe that eating animals is the way of the planet. It's what is meant to happen. Also plants are just as much alive as animals and have just as much right to live. By idealistic vegan thinking fruits are ok, they are meant to be eaten. But roots should be banned as that kills the plant!

I am an omnivore.

I wonder if you would think that if a race of superbeings came here from another planet and decided to eat us.


As for humans being herbivores here is a bit about the Editor of the the American Journal of Cardiology:

William C. Roberts MD has five decades of experience in the field of cardiology, written over 1300 scientific publications, a dozen cardiology textbooks, and has been editor in chief of the American Journal of Cardiology for a quarter of a century. He is arguably the most highly regarded cardiologist in the world today.

In his 2008 editorial "The Cause of Atherosclerosis", published in the peer reviewed journal Nutrition in Clinical Practice, Roberts states that there is a single, sole cause to heart disease: cholesterol. If your total cholesterol is below 150 and LDL is below 70, you are essentially heart attack proof. What is the cause of high cholesterol? Saturated fat and animal products:

Atherosclerosis is easily produced in nonhuman
herbivores (eg, rabbits, monkeys) by feeding them
a high cholesterol (eg, egg yolks) or high saturated
fat (eg, animal fat) diet… And atherosclerosis was not produced in a
minority of rats fed these diets, it was produced in
100% of the animals! Indeed, atherosclerosis is one
of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally,
but the experimental animal must be an herbivore.
It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in a
carnivore…"

He elaborates in an earlier editorial:

It is virtually impossible, for example, to produce atherosclerosis in a dog even when 100 grams of cholesterol and 120 grams of butter fat are added to its meat ration. (This amount of cholesterol
is approximately 200 times the average amount that human beings in the USA
eat each day!). (The American Journal of Cardiology, 1990, vol. 66,896.)

He then utterly annihilates the human omnivore myth in a single sentence. here it is:

***Because humans get atherosclerosis, and atherosclerosis
is a disease only of herbivores, humans also must be
herbivores.***

At once the insanity of our times comes into razor sharp relief.

Some may debate whether cholesterol is the sole cause of heart disease. It does not matter, the fact remains that atherosclerosis occurs only in herbivores.

If humans were physiological omnivores, heart disease would not exist, let alone be America's #1 killer for over a hundred years.

It may not be the least bit hyperbolic to say that the existence of heart disease in humans is proof that we, as a species, are vegans.

In any case, a low fat vegan diet has been proven again and again to be the cure for heart disease. A mountain of clinical evidence supports this.

According to Roberts, those who are utterly immune to heart disease without the use of statin drugs are pure vegetarian fruit eaters. His own exact words. fruit eaters.

HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES