Why do people get so provoked by vegans?

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  • ki4yxo
    ki4yxo Posts: 709 Member
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    If you want to be a vegan, go ahead. Mean while I'll
    take that steak medium rare thank you very much.

    My wife grew up as a vegan because of her mom.
    After living on her own, she started eating meat.
    Now she eats her steak medium rare. LOL

    I don't see why anyone cares why people decide
    to eat or not eat meat. Mother in law is still a vegan,
    yet she eats fish, eggs, cheese, etc.. That part I don't
    understand.
  • TDGee
    TDGee Posts: 2,209 Member
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    Let's be clear on this, eat what you want to eat. Most of the world does not care what you choose for yourself. Do not evangelize your choices and everything will be fine.


    Oh, and one other thing for everyone, remember to thoroughly wash your food before eating.
    547093_4556189866466_494638663_n.jpg
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
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    Mother in law is still a vegan,
    yet she eats fish, eggs, cheese, etc.. That part I don't
    understand.


    Are you sure she's not pescatarian or does she call herself vegan?
  • ki4yxo
    ki4yxo Posts: 709 Member
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    Mother in law is still a vegan,
    yet she eats fish, eggs, cheese, etc.. That part I don't
    understand.


    Are you sure she's not pescatarian or does she call herself vegan?



    Actually she calls herself a vegitarian. Is there a difference?
    I thought they were the same...
  • jebreject
    jebreject Posts: 46 Member
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    A vegan consumes no animal products. Vegans often will not even buy leather belts or eat honey, though this varies from vegan to vegan.

    Think of "vegan" as meaning "taking vegetarianism to its logical end."
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
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    Mother in law is still a vegan,
    yet she eats fish, eggs, cheese, etc.. That part I don't
    understand.


    Are you sure she's not pescatarian or does she call herself vegan?



    Actually she calls herself a vegitarian. Is there a difference?
    I thought they were the same...

    A vegetarian can still eat eggs, dairy, honey. They just do not eat meat...which is why I do not understand why she eats fish, technically that would make her pescatarian because they are like vegetarians, except they eat fish. Vegans do not eat any animal nor it's bodily substances that are expelled (dairy, eggs, honey).
  • ki4yxo
    ki4yxo Posts: 709 Member
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    Mother in law is still a vegan,
    yet she eats fish, eggs, cheese, etc.. That part I don't
    understand.


    Are you sure she's not pescatarian or does she call herself vegan?



    Actually she calls herself a vegitarian. Is there a difference?
    I thought they were the same...

    A vegetarian can still eat eggs, dairy, honey. They just do not eat meat...which is why I do not understand why she eats fish, technically that would make her pescatarian because they are like vegetarians, except they eat fish. Vegans do not eat any animal nor it's bodily substances that are expelled (dairy, eggs, honey).


    Cool, thanks for the clarification. Also when I do eat steak,
    I balance it out with a baked potato, and a salad. Sometimes
    I even make fresh beets! Tonight we're having marinated cube
    steak (money's tight) white rice, lentils, and a salad.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    I didn't read all of this thread either, but I think I am one of the obnoxious vegans that people are talking about here. The reality is however, that I never tell anyone what to eat, but rather I keep throwing scientific studies in their faces, showing a definitive correlation between eating meat and chronic diseases. The reactions are usually pretty strong. The dumbest ones usually say something like "studies are all slanted and skewed by researchers who have an agenda," or "you haven't proven causation - correlation does not equal causation." They ignore the fact that studies have been done since the 1940, and virtually all of them show the same thing: eating meat is correlated with deadly chronic diseases. Every reputable medical association in the world recommends eating no meat or at worse less meat.

    I recently got into an on-line argument with a VEGETARIAN who was very angry at my approach. He messaged me and said, "What the Hell are you doing. What do you care what those idiots eat? They will get cancer or heart disease and die. This is Darwinism. Survival of the fittest."

    I had to say he had a good point. However, I do care for several reasons:

    1. I don't want to pay increased health care costs because of them.

    2. I was once a meat eater, so there is hope for everyone

    3. The animal suffering caused by eating meat is horrible. We are an evil species.

    4. I invariably get messages or friend requests from people saying my direct approach has help them.

    The latter category is worth talking about. Anyone who has studied sociology knows what "magical thinking" is. It is also known as "cognitive dissonance." People compartmentalize their thought processes and hold conflicting views. For example, some people may say, "The scientific approach is good. It has given us civilization." Yet these same people will make up excuses for not believing thousands of studies that correlate meat eating with chronic diseases. Magical thinking somehow protects them. They think these studies are either bogus, or not properly done, or in the usual words of the most statistically challenged of them, "that causation is not proven." (When asked what study they know of does prove causation, they can't give me one.)

    My approach which for some reason many, many people find offensive, is simply this: Look at the science. Are longitudinal studies perfect? No. Can scientists slant or skew results? Yes. However, I really do not think they do a lot (probably the exception is those studies funded by special interest groups, because there, the outcome of the study is tied to the funding.)

    In any event, until someone tells me a better source of information than massive longitudinal studies, they will inform my opinion, for better or worse.

    Hmm...

    After reading this, I'm not sure why anyone would be provoked. LOL!

    Yeah, me either.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    This BBC article is about the amount of people in the UK who eat vegetarian/vegan 'meat' instead on animal meat for health reasons, despite not being vegetarian otherwise:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/0/19294585

    Also, Quorn adverts in the UK never mention vegetarianism or animal rights. They don't even say that it isn't meat. Just that it's lower in fat:

    http://youtu.be/_Ymabb7Uzeg

    "The UK market for meat-free products such as tofu, sausages, burgers, and imitation chicken fillets was most recently put at £786.5m a year, up 7.7% from five years earlier. A further 10.3% increase is expected over the next five years, according to market research company Key Note.

    But this boom in meat-free products is no longer being driven solely by vegetarians.

    Just 6% (3.8m) of the UK population identified themselves as "mainly" vegetarian (eating fish but not meat) in 2011, and 3% (1.9m) as completely vegetarian.

    So who is fuelling the rise?

    Su Taylor from the Vegetarian Society says it's "people with differing motivations", which could be health, environment, animal welfare or just "trying something different".

    They include "meat reducers" - people who may have bought in to campaigns such as "Meat Free Mondays" and are trying to reduce their carbon footprint."
    Quorn was one of my favorite foods. Pity it is not vegan.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    ... but rather I keep throwing scientific studies in their faces, showing a definitive correlation between eating meat and chronic diseases. ...

    There is no such thing as a definitive correlation study. :wink:

    Your opinion. I guess my question to you is if there is no such thing as a definitive correlation study, why do they keep doing them?
    Why do major health organizations use them for policy purposes and recommendations?
    When you have a thousand studies from all over the world, using different cohorts, following longitudinally for years, even decades, all saying the same thing, why can't the results be considered definitive?
    The sun has risen in the East since I was born. It is likely to until I die. True, a cosmic event might turn the earth upside down so the directions East-West are reversed, then that statement would no longer be true. Why can't it be considered definitive until that happens.
    What study have you ever read that is definitive? If none, then your objection applies to every study ever done, so why are you even making the objection?
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Just read this article from NPR and thought it would be worth the read:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/08/30/160117028/do-vegetarians-and-vegans-think-they-are-better-than-everyone-else?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20120830

    This is a tough question, and I think they are giving politically correct answers. I don't think the answer is so easy,

    I believe the vegetarian ethic is a superior ethic. Does that mean that I think vegetarians are superior to non-vegetarians? I don't think I can honestly answer that. When I was single, I didn't date non-vegetarians. Back then internet dating sites did not exist, in fact the internet did not exist, in fact computers barely existed. I met my wife through a personal ad on Vegetarian Times. I try to avoid parties with meat eaters, and watching people eat meat disgusts me. I never go out to lunch with a client, unless I know he is vegetarian. So is that the behavior of someone who feels superior? Maybe.

    On the other hand, those of you who have strong religious beliefs. Do you date people of different religions? Would you marry one? Do you feel superior to everyone else?
  • harrietlg
    harrietlg Posts: 239
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    it's just about the preaching and being a chef it makes it no fun when someone tweaks an item on the menu when you are busy
  • Squirrely_Girl
    Squirrely_Girl Posts: 26
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    [/quote]
    Unlike other threads I have been on pertaining to this subject, I think there was a lot of respectful and useful discourse. I even made a few friends from it, and not all vegans either. I think there is merit in trying to understand each other, and get past stereotypes and judgments.

    I think we just see things differently, yet I think most people actively try to live with integrity and honor. Naturally, each individual will define that uniquely for him/herself.
    [/quote]

    Thank You for this comment.

    The way I see it is like this...........

    Vegetarians, vegans, Paleo and clean eaters all share a lot in common (provided they are eating natural foods).

    If we want to change the way food is raised and grown, like getting rid of mono-crops and factory farming, then we NEED to work together using our commonalities.

    If we are fighting one another, nothing will change.
    [/quote]

    Both of these ^^
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    I am curious as to how many people posting here actually have met a vegan they didn't like and aren't just hating a stereotype when they've never met a vegan or only met. Like two or three.

    No, they truly hate me.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    I wish everyone would just let others live their lives their own way.

    And never learn anything from anyone else and have to discover every little thing on their own? Despite the occasional hard feelings and disagreements, I think I'll keep the system we currently have.

    No. Being interested in how others live and learning about it without judging is excellent. Trying to make everyone live the same way as you (not you, personally) is where it goes wrong.

    Yeah, but what do we do if their "own way" is to be preachy and judgmental?

    If everyone lets others live their own way, then it follows that no one would be preachy and judgemental.

    I don't see in the 13+ pages where anyone is restricting anyone from living their own way. However, there seems to be quite a bit of preachiness and judgmentalness (two words I'm going to just make up as if they actually exist).

    When people say things like, "I wish everyone would just let others live their lives their own way" on MFP, what I think they are saying is that they wish everyone would just not be preachy and judgmental. However, some people by their very nature *are* preachy and judgmental. To say that they should not be seems to me to be as potentially offensive as their original preachiness and judgmentalness is to others.

    Preachiness and judgmentalism is in the eye of the beholder. What is preachy to one person can be considered a statement of pure truth to another. I like to quote studies whereby I think I avoid the "preachy" aspect, because science can rarely if ever be considered preachy. However, many, particularly those who have what I call "magical thinking" and do not believe that science applies to them, or has some cokamamy reason for not believing the studies will surely disagree. Some people just don't like to hear things that do not validate their own lifestyle. Well, tough.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Let's be clear on this, eat what you want to eat. Most of the world does not care what you choose for yourself. Do not evangelize your choices and everything will be fine.


    Oh, and one other thing for everyone, remember to thoroughly wash your food before eating.
    547093_4556189866466_494638663_n.jpg

    Okay, here comes the low life!
  • Squirrely_Girl
    Squirrely_Girl Posts: 26
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    [/quote]
    That is why I try to urge people to buy local, instead of the big box or chain markets.

    The Farm to Table movement needs to come back.
    [/quote]

    I didn't realize it had gone away. It's a very big movement up here in the bay area. Beyond organics, free range, local..Pasture raised (different than free range in that animals actually graze in pastures rather than have access to a field through a tiny hole in a cooped up building), seed bio-diversity, backyard gardening, foraging movement etc etc are all thriving. It's sad to me that this isn't the case everywhere. Everyone should have access to nutritious, wholesome,local, organic, heirloom food.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    I AM bothered by Vegans that do it for idealistic reasons. I believe that eating animals is the way of the planet. It's what is meant to happen. Also plants are just as much alive as animals and have just as much right to live. By idealistic vegan thinking fruits are ok, they are meant to be eaten. But roots should be banned as that kills the plant!

    I am an omnivore.

    I wonder if you would think that if a race of superbeings came here from another planet and decided to eat us.


    As for humans being herbivores here is a bit about the Editor of the the American Journal of Cardiology:

    William C. Roberts MD has five decades of experience in the field of cardiology, written over 1300 scientific publications, a dozen cardiology textbooks, and has been editor in chief of the American Journal of Cardiology for a quarter of a century. He is arguably the most highly regarded cardiologist in the world today.

    In his 2008 editorial "The Cause of Atherosclerosis", published in the peer reviewed journal Nutrition in Clinical Practice, Roberts states that there is a single, sole cause to heart disease: cholesterol. If your total cholesterol is below 150 and LDL is below 70, you are essentially heart attack proof. What is the cause of high cholesterol? Saturated fat and animal products:

    Atherosclerosis is easily produced in nonhuman
    herbivores (eg, rabbits, monkeys) by feeding them
    a high cholesterol (eg, egg yolks) or high saturated
    fat (eg, animal fat) diet… And atherosclerosis was not produced in a
    minority of rats fed these diets, it was produced in
    100% of the animals! Indeed, atherosclerosis is one
    of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally,
    but the experimental animal must be an herbivore.
    It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in a
    carnivore…"

    He elaborates in an earlier editorial:

    It is virtually impossible, for example, to produce atherosclerosis in a dog even when 100 grams of cholesterol and 120 grams of butter fat are added to its meat ration. (This amount of cholesterol
    is approximately 200 times the average amount that human beings in the USA
    eat each day!). (The American Journal of Cardiology, 1990, vol. 66,896.)

    He then utterly annihilates the human omnivore myth in a single sentence. here it is:

    ***Because humans get atherosclerosis, and atherosclerosis
    is a disease only of herbivores, humans also must be
    herbivores.***

    At once the insanity of our times comes into razor sharp relief.

    Some may debate whether cholesterol is the sole cause of heart disease. It does not matter, the fact remains that atherosclerosis occurs only in herbivores.

    If humans were physiological omnivores, heart disease would not exist, let alone be America's #1 killer for over a hundred years.

    It may not be the least bit hyperbolic to say that the existence of heart disease in humans is proof that we, as a species, are vegans.

    In any case, a low fat vegan diet has been proven again and again to be the cure for heart disease. A mountain of clinical evidence supports this.

    According to Roberts, those who are utterly immune to heart disease without the use of statin drugs are pure vegetarian fruit eaters. His own exact words. fruit eaters.

    HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-02/acs-veh020111.php

    Okay, humans used to get their B12 from bacteria that lived around roots. You only need trace amounts of B12 and eating "dirty" vegetables was how humans obtain this for millennia. The article is unfortunately in Chinese, so I for one, could not really examine what was said and done there. The article is also only saying that vegans who do not get enough B12 and Omega 3 are at an elevated heart risk compared to other vegetarians. Or at least that is what it seems to be saying. Both B12 and Omega 3 can be obtained from Vegan sources and supplements are easy to obtain. Unlike the idiot who wrote the article for Eurikaalert, you do NOT have to eat fish.
  • AlphamaleBAMF
    AlphamaleBAMF Posts: 373 Member
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    Because lillith tells us to eat meat.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
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    it's just about the preaching and being a chef it makes it no fun when someone tweaks an item on the menu when you are busy

    I guess this is the reason I mainly go to ethnic restaurants with naturally vegan items on the menu. I always sense I'm being a pain in traditional restaurants, and this confirms it.

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