Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

I'm a smoker - I don't smoke in my house, I smoke outside it. I don't smoke in my car either. Oh and I don't smoke around children, or around my non-smoking friends if I can help it! The one thing that does get me is pregnant women smoking - yes I know its their choice, but I see that as being selfish (my sister in law smoked constantly whilst pregnant, and unfortunatley lost 2 children - not saying its because of this, but it could of been a factor - and now the 2 children she does have both have bad asthma, again, don't know if it is caused by the smoking whilst pregnant - but it doesnt help)

When I smoke at work, it is on the roof, away from people who would likely walk past and cough and splutter because I'm "polluting their air" - what about all the car fumes you inhale - do you cough and splutter everytime one of them goes past you? If anyone does this to me now whilst I'm walking to work, and enjoying my pre-work ciggie, I make a point of blowing the smoke toward them and try and keep up with them - petty, I know - but if you can be like that then so can I!

When I go to the pub, I smoke outside, away from the door (if I can unless there's some inconsiderate non-smoker taking up my space!)

There are so many rude people on here - everyone has their own vices, and not everyone may agree with them, but not everyone goes on about it, and tries to change people!

Wow! You comment on the rude people on here but you're just as rude when you deliberately blow smoke at someone who coughs and splutters. Believe me not everyone who coughs and splutters is doing it just to make a point. I'm one of those people who cough and splutter because I can't stand it when I get a face full of someone's cigarette smoke. I guess you don't realize how nasty that is to someone who doesn't smoke and how hard it is to even breathe! Really, I'm sorry you're offended by me trying to get that stuff out of my system and just trying to breathe again. I just kind of enjoy breathing.

But when I'm outside - you know, the great outdoors, big open spaces etc etc and you decide to walk that close to me that you do maybe catch a whiff of my smoke over the car exhausts and you cough/splutter then sorry but not my problem - plenty of space to walk around me or past me so you don't need to walk that close to me! I already said I don't smoke around people who don't smoke if I can help it, so I certainly wouldn't stand there and "blow smoke in their face" as you put it.

I enjoy breathing, I also enjoy living - and I seem to be able to both, simultaneously without having an issue with it - I don't smoke heavily so why shouldn't I?!

Yeah, the big open space outside where I try to stay away from smokers but sometimes it's nearly impossible. Like when I'm standing at a bus stop waiting for a bus and someone walks past me smoking a strong cigarette and happens to exhale smoke when they walk by me. Or when I'm walking somewhere and pass a smoker and get a face full of smoke. Sometimes it's not so easy to avoid smokers and I certainly try.

And btw, I didn't say you blow smoke in someone's face. You're the one who stated you will blow smoke towards someone who cough and splutters.

Being over weight has more KNOWN risks, side effects and harm then smoking has ever been proven to do; should ban fast food and throw anyone who eats over their calorie limit in jail? If smoking tobacco is child abuse then so should be drinking caffeine, alcohol, taking any pain killer because those alter your perception,thought and reasoning and cigarette have never been proven to do so. Feeding your child more than what they need to sustain themselves through out a day because you are giving you child the risk of diabetes, heart disease and thousand of other health related problems by making your child fat.

If you don't like someone who is smoking out doors then move away from them and if for some reason you *can't* leave stand out of the wind if it really will ruin your life that much ...

I have never smoked, but I do have compassion for smokers. I understand that it is an extremely difficult habit to break.

That being said, I do think that it is child abuse to smoke around children and extremely incosiderate to smoke around anyone else. I also don't think that Medicare or Medicaid should have to pay reoccuring medical bills associated with smoking or that the hospitals or doctors should have to absorb the cost; especially when someone isn't making an attempt to stop.

I am a nurse, and it gets very frustrating to have a patient with a respiratory diagnosis that smokes and has every intention of continuing to smoke. Sure it's your right to smoke, but is it your right to have others suffer the financial burdens of your habit?

Well said- very valid point.

We're talking about an addiction here, so folks who smoke are likely to become defensive. I'm going to be honest here...

There have been many studies regarding the ingridients in cigarrettes/cigars and their effect on the human body. Blowing those chemicals into the air around someone else is going to be detrimental to his/her health.

Also, I don't have to be very close to someone smoking and will cough when I walk by- it's not obnoxious, it just really irritates my throat. You'd be amazed at how far smoke travels when there's a breeze. If my coughing offends you, maybe you're being defensive.

If you have a vice/habit, that's all you and all "good" - I just don't see the need to make others suffer through it. That said, I very much appreciate my right to breathe relatively clean air and enjoy an environment that won't make my clothes/hair/skin smell like smoke when I get home. I'd think it'd be simple enough (and considerate) to smoke before going to a public establishment.

As someone who feels ill around cigarette smoke, I consider smoking to be a public nuisance. Your addiction should not trump my ability to breathe. So, yes, I am in favor banning smoking in public places, just like I am in favor public noise ordinances and open bottle laws. That said, I don't understand people who feel the need to "enlighten" smokers about the dangers of their habit.

So you think you have the right to tell me I cant allow smoking in my own restaurant?

Yeah, I guess maybe you ought to be able to have a smoker designated restaurant for your limited clientele. Since most people don't smoke these days, you could be driving away a lot customers by bringing smoking into your restaurant. People don't want to put up with being exposed to other people's pollution like they used to in the old days. I remember how my uncle used to wolf down his dinner then light up a cigarette at the table while the rest of us were still eating. Nauseating during dinner - the smell turned my stomach. I avoid smokers whenever possible so I avoid places where smokers are allowed. I'm sure they wouldn't like me, either, since I'd be gasping for air...

As far as your other post about not liking tattoos and piercings, I don't recall a case of tattoos and piercings bringing on an asthma attack or allergic reaction in a bystander. Not a great comparison in my opinion...Smoke all you want, just keep your toxic plume to yourself.

MDWilliams: This, along with a gazillion other things easily searched on the internet should provide you with the proof you need that second-hand smoke is deadly and dangerous to everyone. I hope that you will do a small amount or reading and realize that you should change your tune on this issue. If not... then I don't know what to tell you. I'm bowing out before things get mean spirited. I feel like the arguments are just going in circles at this point.

http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/healtheffects.html

Been there done that. Read all sorts of studies. No study has ever proven second hand smoke to be harmful, Thats a fact. Accept it or not, its still a fact.

This is why you don't get into arguments with smokers. Like I said, blinkered idiocy. I'm sorry you lack the intelligence to see a valid scientific argument, that's why you are a smoker and I'm not.

Actually, Im not a smoker as I have stated many times. Maybe rather than holding yourself up as an intellectual and painting everyone else as stupid, you could work on reading comprehension. You could also take the time to read the hundreds of studies that show no harmful effects of second hand smoke. But what do I know, Im not nearly as mart as you think you are.

So sue me, I skipped your posts because on the whole they are crap about passive smoking which for some reson you feel is about as realistic as santa (btw he's not real). If you're not a smoker why are you acting like one? Could you give me a link to these so called studies? A VALID link not something in the huffington post, a SCIENTIFIC link such as Science Direct, Scientific American etc. I will gladly read them if you can find any.

Lol, that is the quote you took?
So I 'am' suppose to feel guilty. Hmmmm
And yes,Virginia, I do try and avoid other pollutants. I never said a drastic opinion about a place that allows smoking. But ok, here is mine. Even though;as I said in my comment earlier, I have lung problems not of my own making, I would not begrudge an owner from running his business as he pleases. My caveats are, he would own big enough property that I didn't run into the smoke, and no minors would be allowed in the establishment. Other than that, what grown folks do is their business. Ha!! I guess I will just pick the check up for their Medicare.
Here's a story for you. When my children were young they saw a blip about how a young person can make a difference. It was a story about a young boy telling his mom that he thought grown ups bringing their children into the smoking section was wrong. His mom told him if he didn't like to do something. So he did! He got enough signatures on a petition to have the town vote on passing an under age ban in the smoking section. I think it might have been one of the first places in Florida to have that kind of a ban. I am sure if someone searches for it they could find it. Point of my story? The ban came from a child, not big government trying to play nanny.

I say, if a person wants to smoke then so be it. I am also all for the legalization of weed, coke, crack, meth, whatever. Its not my business what you do. If we dont own our own bodies, what do we own? To each their own. Live your life how you see fit, and let others do the same. Everyone knows the dangers of smoking and people still choose to do it. If they wrote in big red letter on the front of the pack "THESE THINGS WILL KILL YOU", people would still smoke. We all make choices and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices. Who am I to make a choice for you? Who are you to make a choice for me? Who are you to tel me that I cant run my business the way I see fit? To me, this isnt an issue of people being inconsiderate. The world is full of A hole, both smoking and non. Blowing smoke in someones face is douche baggery 101. But that doesnt mean that smoking should be banned or that I shouldnt be allowed to have an establishment that allows smoking.

Totally agree here! If people are killing themselves with obesity and horrific genetically modified/processed food (not to mention fast food), we might as well be able to have fun with all the things mentioned above...

MDWilliams: This, along with a gazillion other things easily searched on the internet should provide you with the proof you need that second-hand smoke is deadly and dangerous to everyone. I hope that you will do a small amount or reading and realize that you should change your tune on this issue. If not... then I don't know what to tell you. I'm bowing out before things get mean spirited. I feel like the arguments are just going in circles at this point.

http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/healtheffects.html

Been there done that. Read all sorts of studies. No study has ever proven second hand smoke to be harmful, Thats a fact. Accept it or not, its still a fact.

This is why you don't get into arguments with smokers. Like I said, blinkered idiocy. I'm sorry you lack the intelligence to see a valid scientific argument, that's why you are a smoker and I'm not.

Actually, Im not a smoker as I have stated many times. Maybe rather than holding yourself up as an intellectual and painting everyone else as stupid, you could work on reading comprehension. You could also take the time to read the hundreds of studies that show no harmful effects of second hand smoke. But what do I know, Im not nearly as mart as you think you are.

So sue me, I skipped your posts because on the whole they are crap about passive smoking which for some reson you feel is about as realistic as santa (btw he's not real). If you're not a smoker why are you acting like one? Could you give me a link to these so called studies? A VALID link not something in the huffington post, a SCIENTIFIC link such as Science Direct, Scientific American etc. I will gladly read them if you can find any.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade

Neither. Just people being careless with their health.

Look son Americans still think they are free.

In the end its not worth debating anyone.

What will happen is the goverment of my country or yours will keep destroying your rights.
The laws get made following some simple guidelines.

1. Your to stupid to decide if a drug be it alcohol/ weed/coke is ok to use.
2. Laws will get forced through and never changed if it helps out a large company.
3.If the science does not fit the agenda at the time it will be made to fit.

Some great examples
Ban weed it makes negros think they are equal to white men.(some studies are showing cannabis is he best drug to reduce the suffering of cancer patients and could infact help fight it.

tax the hell out of alcohol to reduce drinking and improve healthy. Anyone with sense would realise you just skip a meal and still get wasted. (doing more damage than when you had something in your gut)

Tax the hell out of meat/fat and help the grain company make a profit. This was done under the idea that fat was bad.
(which has never been true)saturated fats anyway.

Mind expanding drugs. (DMT, shrooms etc) made a class A drug during the cold war. Drugs such as this are the reason anti depressents exist. They have almost no long term side affects and if made easier to study could help millions with mental illness.

The world is only going to get worse. Science is not the main drive and if you say it should be they will compare you to the nazis. Exactly what happend to David Nutt when he showed that extacy is less dangerous than horse back riding.

So yeah my point :laugh: People should be allowed to do as they please, Then when they show they lack the mental power to take personal responsibilty ie smoking in a car with kids, getting high in work, drunk driving, smoking so much the child shows signs o lung damage,making thier kids obese so they will face a life time of mental problems and bullying they should be shot. Why should we all suffer for the minorty of peoples mistakes.

Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke.

I find this very hard to believe... i live in the UK weve had a smoking ban here for several 4? years now, I remember being afraid i was going to get burnt when i went to the bar in a club, and the smell of clothing when i got home, blegh!. I saw NO businesses suffering from the smoking ban... if its the same rule anywhere people are still going to go...every smoker hasnt become some kind of recluse, not daring to leave their home because they wont be able to smoke *rolls eyes*

So true. That is just drama and exaggeration. The smokers I know just altered their behavior and adapted to the new rules. They didn't stop going out and doing things.

Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke.

I find this very hard to believe... i live in the UK weve had a smoking ban here for several 4? years now, I remember being afraid i was going to get burnt when i went to the bar in a club, and the smell of clothing when i got home, blegh!. I saw NO businesses suffering from the smoking ban... if its the same rule anywhere people are still going to go...every smoker hasnt become some kind of recluse, not daring to leave their home because they wont be able to smoke *rolls eyes*

Believe what you want. The bars have seen a huge dip in revenue, especially int he winter time, and the bowling allies cant get people to go there. Read any American paper and you will see. Doesnt take a lot to research it.

for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.

why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....

yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.

Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.

Not sure what makes you think you have a God given right to sit in my Cafe at all let alone without smelling smoke. There are many Cafes, if one allows smoking you certainly have a right to go to another and if you cant do that then dont complain about the smoke.

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.