Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I used smoke about 6 a day! I am also a parent. I didnt smoke around the children..I smoked outdoors only and noone is allowed to smoke inside my apartment. I do believe in passive smoking hence the reason for the above.

I have quit many times for upto a year at a time and always end up sucked back into it Smoking is my only vice and while it would be nice to quit for good and not fall back into it this isnt always the case.....so many restart tut I'm using an ecig now ^^

I think that while smoking is damaging to my health there are plenty of other things that are also damaging to my health that I cant prevent. I think that the media have made smokers feel guilty ( more than they do already) for smoking and we are made to feel as though we are evil!

It is my choice to smoke or not and I truely hope my children never get into the habit. They have been educated into the dangers of smoking and its forced down our necks about how bad it is each time we pick up a paper or watch television.

I believe people have the right to make their own decisions, and if they are aware its dangerous, and they wish to continue then that is their freedom of choice. If they are around others that don't like smoking, then smokers should be free to go outside and smoke in peace.

I think this world is turning into a dictatorship and we are babied and told what to do or not do far too often. Whether its about the best way to parent, what to wear, how much to weigh, what to eat, where we can smoke, how much we can drink, etc etc etc and then we are taxed and taxed on the things like junk food and smokes to make that point even harder.

Let people live and make their own choices. If you don't like those choices then don't be with those people! If we spent as much time trying to help people as we do critising each other and hating on each other for our flaws and bossed about then we would be so much happier.

Also to take into consideration would be pollution? If you live in a busy city its as bad for your lungs as smoking >< Also look up the stats for women and lung cancer.... a huge percentage of women with lung cancer aren't even smokers. I don't trust a lot of the information out there but then I do know when I smoke its harder to breathe, it stinks and I wouldn't risk hurting others by smoking near them lol

Who knows...make your own choices but don't hate on people with different views.

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.

or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade

Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.

If you ignore him, he won't be starving for attention....he works for Phillip Morris anyway

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.

or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells

Alarm bells for what? That I dont look for friends online? I use MFP to track my daily food intake thats it. I dont look for validation among strangers.

I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.

I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.

Are you kidding me?
First of all, a lot of people gain weight when pregnant... That is almost inevitable.
Then there are medical conditions and medications which make it extremely hard to lose weight/slow down your metabolism.

There's a difference between pregnancy and obsetity and this can easily be explained to children.
As far as medical conditions - yes, but at some point the person will have had to eat a hell of a lot of calories to get that weight on, for a start.
Even then, does that make a difference if a child is encouraged to feel that something incredibly unhealthy is 'ok'?

, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.

So to clarify; you think god gave you the right to go on to some body else's property and demand to tell the people there what is and is not allowed to happen there?
Me? If I had an issue with what was allowed, I wouldn't go to the cafe in the first place.

Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.

No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.

I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.

I lived for 18 years in a house with two parents that smoked. I have zero problems. So my experience supercedes their experience right? Of course not, neither experience amounts to anything as far as real evidence is concerned.

I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.

If I allow smoking in my restaurant, how am I forcing others to breathe toxic smoke? Didnt they make the choice to eat there?

I've come to the conclusion some people you just can't argue with due to sheer ignorance and stupidity so I'm ending this now.

If you think passive smoking is a myth, get onto Science Direct or BMJ and see the evidence that you're talkin bollocks. Though I doubt you know what to look for in a good research study, so maybe just sit there in your house, being a good little keyboard warrior and keep your ignorant blinkers on, I don't care I know enough to know you're wrong, if you can't see that then whatever.

Non smokers shouldn't have to limit their choices for the stupid minority.

Smokers, feel free to ruin your body and your health and you can enjoy an early grave, but don't subject everyone else to it.

I used to smoke. I gave up when i discovered i was pregnant. I don't think that smokers are selfish. Not really sure they are persecuted either.

I do know that while i do like going into pubs and clubs without inhaling smoke, the smoking ban has been detrimental to some areas.. There are no local pubs now. In actual fact there are no actual pubs, they are all late night bars which have killed off the nightclubs. What used to be nightclubs are now strip clubs clubs.

No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.

So if by account of them saying they work in a hospital and have experienced this, as in, people coming in and becoming patients due to second hand smoke, is invalid. Does that also mean that your account of having been exposed to second hand smoke and smoking, but now no longer smoke, and are completely healthy, is also disregarded as a valid account?

I'm not really sure what you're posting about in here. You go back and forth between "this medical study says this, therefore I'm right" and "I've experienced this, so therefore, I'm right in this account" and "I'm completely oppressed by my government, we should live in a free world".

Some of the things you say make sense, but a lot of it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what you're advocating.

No sire, I stated very clearly that my experience does NOT constitute proof of anything. A persons own personal experience does not prove anything nor does it disprove anything. So saying that I work at a hospital and some kid had health issue and both parents smoked is irrelevant. It means nothing. There is no evidence that the kids health issues are a result of the parents smoking. It takes studies done over a period of years to draw those type of conclusions not one or two kids that have breathing problems and the parents happen to smoke. I lived with two smoking parent and have no health problems. And by that same token, my personal experience of living with two smokers and having no health problems also doesnt prove anything. Its anecdotal and does not constitute proof or evidence of anything.

Not sure how you could miss what Im advocating. I would think its pretty simple. Smoke if you want to its nobody elses business. And if you own a business you should be able to allow smoking and if I dont like it I dont have to eat there. Pretty simple.

I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.

I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.

To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.

So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?

When did I say anyone was forcing me to do anything

It is the case, however, that smokers smell bad. Not just when they are actually smoking, but all day, from the first cig to the last. I work with a smoker and she goes out to smoke. I can smell it on her from across the desk or when walking behind her in the office. I put up with it the same way I'd put up with a colleague's BO or bad breath, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I would object, however, if she lit up in the office as that gives me no way to avoid it.

Does she know she smells bad? Probably. Does she continue to smoke? Yes. Does that make her selfish? I'd say that makes her an addict. She spends over £50 a week on a habit that wrecks her skin, makes her smell and could kill her - being selfish is the least of her worries! Maybe if she was persecuted *a bit* she'd give up?

Just to carry on your point: Obese people smell bad, that foul smell of sweat and crap all rolled into one.
and before anyone says discrimination im basing this on personal times when ive been stuck next to them.

But god forbid i say anything about that fat guy or girl taking up 2 seats, making the bus smell of rancid mayo. But these are strong woman who no matter how horribly they hate skinny girls are all beautiful on the inside and should be proud of thier rolls of fat.

I would go as far to say being obese has a much higher price to pay than a smoker.
Fat kids will get bullied i school no matter what you do, they will die early and will suffer a worse life because of it.
if you go after smokers you must go after the obese, its a choice just like smoking.