Toxic Parents...don't believe what you are told
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Forgiveness can be a difficult word. I usually think of it as acceptance. I accept that my family is the way that they are and that there is nothing I can do to change that. I love them as they are, but I am an adult and I will also protect myself and my children. It doesn't mean that what happened was ok, it just means that I accept that it happened and I can't change that.
But, it took a lot of work to get here. I had to feel all the feelings about it first (sometimes I still do), and I needed to work out how to set boundaries with my family.
After everything that I had been through with my mother and the people she brought into my life, I remember after I had my second baby she asked if she could borrow a shirt and then she got really angry at me because she said all my clothes would be too big for her. I had to realize that those were her issues. I was not a bad person because my clothes were too big for her. I had just had a baby and I still only weighed 110 pounds (I was also in my 20's still).0 -
thanks for posting, we all need a reminder that every one of us is wonderful in our own way.
I read the book a few years ago, I didn't like the suggestions it had about "sit down with your toxic parent...and talk to them". i had the toxic parent that should have never had a child, or should have given me up for adoption.
Best thing I ever did, was to walk away and never look back. I will never understand how a person can go thru life thinking they did nothing wrong to me. Forgiveness doesn't exist for the pain they caused me.
I know, because of my toxic mother, I put off having children, because I did not want to be like her...but regret it. I would LOVE to adopt, but it is too expensive. That is another story.
You said that "sitting down with the toxic parent and talking" was not for you, and I understand that is not for everyone. I did not so much sit down with mine, as stand there, and tell her "I love you, but I am not going to put up with this abuse any longer. I am sick to death of you calling me fat, and it isn't a joke, or for fun... it REALLY hurts when it comes from your MOTHER". I on the other hand, couldn't do what a lot of books tell you to do, and blindly forgive them. When they have had numerous chances given to them to stop the behaviour, and they don't... how can you forgive that? You really can't. To keep putting yourself in the situation to be emotionally beaten up, doesn't make any sense.
While I commend you on this post, I think you are misunderstanding what forgiveness is. Forgiveness is NOT saying, "Oh, it's okay" or anything like that. It's not about saying, "You are forgiven" and placing yourself back in the same situation(s). It's about realizing that you have no control over how other people act, what they do, or how they treat you - but not allowing them to control your life any longer. A person doesn't have to be in your life to have control over it - as many of these posts show. Adults all saying they still have issues to work through because of something that happened in the past.
Although there is presently no consensus for a psychological definition of forgiveness in the research literature, agreement has emerged that forgiveness is a PROCESS. Realizing and accepting you have no control over them, is part of that process. If there is no clear consensus of a definition, there can be no misunderstanding as to what it is. I know you can't control anyone's actions, you can control how you feel about THEIR actions, and having been psychologically traumatized for many years, you can't expect anyone to get to that conclusion quickly. The human mind is an organ that will never be fully understood, so there really can't be one way to resolve those issues. Self preservation kicks in first.. get out of the situation... try to heal... and try not to go near that situation again. Once bitten.. twice shy. I wouldn't claim to have all the answers, and I wouldn't claim to tell people they misunderstand how THEY feel or what they think.0 -
Parents are human beings. A lot of people idealize parents or they take for granted that they had healthy parents that were not mentally ill and/or abusive and they assume everyone had the same experience. But, it's good for people to have gratitude for what they had and be less judgmental of others because they don't know what other people have been through. There are times when I see kids and I suddenly remember my own childhood, being a child. I have to stop for a minute and just remind myself that I am an adult, childhood is over, I will never again be a helpless child at the mercy of harmful, sadistic, sociopathic adults ever again. Children should not be harmed by the adults in their lives, the adults that are entrusted with their care (their parents). Childhood is supposed to be a carefree time. But, for me adulthood is a relief that childhood is over. I do not look back on happy childhood memories. I cringe to remember what it was like. Anything is better than childhood. As a parent I believe that "Happy childhoods last a lifetime, prevent child abuse". Thanks to everyone that posted here. There has been so much kindness shown in these posts. A lot of people think that childhood is something to be forgotten. If any person was raped it would impact their lives forever, and it is no different for a child. I was raped by my ex-stepfather repeatedly as a child. I healed. It's in the past. I can be happy now. But, I will never forget the pain and terror that I had to face on a daily basis as a young child, living with a rapist, who was entrusted with my care, who I was told to call my dad. And I did not know it was not ok. I was a child. I believed what my "parents" told me. I believed them that they were right and I was wrong. I endured it, even though my own instincts were telling me that this could not be alright. I tried to get away. And eventually I gave up. I did not know that it was safe to tell a teacher.0
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All my life, I have been told I was "fat", by my MOTHER. Yes, the one person who should love you unconditionally, told me that I was fat, despite not actually being overweight. I am 5' 2", and up until a few years ago, I was 36-24-36, and weighed around 119 - 124, apart from a time when I was so depressed, I dropped to 97lb at the age of 23. Then, I got told I was too thin, by my mother. I then realized nothing would ever please her, I would never be good enough. A number of years back, I went back home to visit my family, it had been 3 years since I had seen them, and the first thing my mother said... you guessed it.."you're so fat". NOT I missed you, or it is nice to see you. After a whole week of abuse. I told her "I love you, but I am not prepared to put up with this abuse any longer" I turned around, and flew back to the US. I got home feeling like THE worst daughter in the world.
I was wandering around a book store, and found this book: "Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life" by Susan Forward. I bought it, and spent the rest of the day reading it. As I was reading, I kept nodding my head, and saying to my partner "listen to this, does this sound familiar?". I found a book that did not tell you to "forgive and forget", because HOW can you forgive someone who will repeat the pattern of abuse? Some people will say it isn't abuse, but it is. Emotional abuse stays with you, pretty much your whole life. After reading the book, I no longer felt like a bad daughter, my actions were valid.
I ate like a bird, no chips, candy, chocolate, fried food, or soda, and I gained weight...a lot of weight. I actually eat more now, than I ever did before I started on MFP.
Basically, all I wanted to say, was.. if there are any young people out there, that have been told you are "fat".... get real support, from TRUSTED people... the school nurse, your family doctor or nurse, a family member who believes in you, a teacher or school counselor. I wish you all the best, be yourself... have fun, and remember... there is always one person out there who believes in you. It WILL get better.
WWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know where to start!! I was a fat little kid but my dad never dreamee d of giving me the complex you were given!! you were given choices and you decided to be this. othewise not and pleases message me!!0 -
I posted a thread about this a while back.
My mother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and treats me like ****. Always has, and always will.
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com0 -
A 'relative' of toxic relationships is misunderstandings. Here's a quote from a John Eldredge book: "Minsunderstanding is damaging, more insidious because we don't identify it as an attack on the heart. How subtly is comes, sowing doubt and discouragement where there shoud have been validation and support. There must be something wrong with us".0
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So sorry you had to go through that. Please feel free to add me..I can definitely relate to being abused emotionally. I need to get that book!0
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bump... seriously think i need to read this book also.0
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I have that book: it totally helped me in the past, though now things are a little more difficult. (I was totally one of those people much happier without my parents in my life on a daily or weekly basis.)
Long story, but my sister caused so much drama and upset, that as usual, my mother blindly will gang up with her to attack me. They were screaming at me on the phone, and I said in a very calm voice "I am not putting up with this, I will speak to you when you can have an adult conversation". That was back in February of 2011. That was the third time, I had attempted to mend bridges, but it is far too toxic for my mental health. I miss my (step)- dad dearly, but the mother always answers the phone, and is like a guard dog. I just can't open the door to that toxicity any longer.
I hate to say this, but I had to cut ties with members of my own family for different reasons. If I ever did mention it even to a close friend they would look at me like I had a 3rd eye or something.My grandma recently passed away and I had feelings of guilt at cutting her out of my life though I know it wasn't healthy to be around her. I prayed about it and came to realize that we are only responsible for our own actions and that people can only make you feel this way or control your emotions if you let them. I wish you the best in finding strength and all of the other women here. I don't believe I was wrong and I don't believe you are wrong. You are setting the rules as to how you allow people to treat you. I hope one day your mother will see you for the person that you are. Good luck.0 -
A 'relative' of toxic relationships is misunderstandings. Here's a quote from a John Eldredge book: "Minsunderstanding is damaging, more insidious because we don't identify it as an attack on the heart. How subtly is comes, sowing doubt and discouragement where there shoud have been validation and support. There must be something wrong with us".
I agree in part, when you are an adult, and have the capacity to hopefully understand relationships a little more, then misunderstandings can be the problem. As children, we blindly believe the adults in our family, because "this is mum, she wouldn't hurt me". As a child we see our parents as our protectors, defenders, and ones that would never hurt us, because if they hurt us, that MUST be the way of the world. Then as we grow, we realize not everyone has the same treatment, or treats us that way, so, as you quoted "There must be something wrong with us". Thank you for that thought provoking post.0 -
so you didn't forgive your mom?
un-forgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick
you don't forgive people for their sake, you do it for your own to live your life
parents are human and fallible, i know that's a different kind of hurt, but you hurt yourself more with un-forgiveness and reliving that hurt0 -
My mom is like this too. Luckily my three brothers and Dad just want me to be happy and healthy, my little brother even offers to go on runs with me and my oldest brother tried to teach me how to surf this summer as a fun active activity. It's taken a long time to get over my mom and what she says though. She has her own issues with eating, when I was 16 I was struggling with EDNOS (Eating Disorder Otherwise Not Specified..a lot of young women [and men] in treatment fall into this area if their BMIs aren't quick low enough or if they display a variety of different disordered eating behaviors) seeing a therapist and a nutritionist and that was probably the only time she thought I looked "good". She still tells me "Oh your goal weight should whatever you weighed at junior prom, you looked great." First of all I was 16!! Now I'm 23, I have the body of a woman now, with hips and breasts. Also I was sick! I didn't eat, I over exercised, I binged and purged! Previous to this I had gotten a little chubby around the age of 13/14. My mom made it clear, she'd taunt me all the time, tell me how fat I looked, what I should and should not be eating. Then by 16 by doctor, brothers, and dad were insistent I gained weight. At the time I actually had a falling out with my oldest brother over a chocolate donut, yes a chocolate donut, he was just so mad and frustrated I wouldn't eat.
She has a cycle with me. When I'm too big, she's mean and taunts me. When I'm doing well, she's jealous and passive aggressive. When I'm a little on the skinny side, she'll occasionally be fine for a little. Then lord help me if I get skinnier or more fit than her because being around her is unbearable.
Years later, I've really come to realize it is all because of her own insecurities and now I truly tune her out. It took years of practice but I can. Working as a therapist I see women that struggle with their own body image and disordered eating all the time. I wish she'd get some help for herself so she can be happy but you can't force someone into help they don't want. Just months before I started this weight loss/finding balance journey she was getting on me about my weight and I explained to her that I was beginning to eat healthier and move more for myself, because I respect my body but not because I don't still love it, no matter what size. It really ruffled her feathers that I could say I loved my body, regardless of size.
It feels a little nice to say it, it almost makes her jealous or mad. Even now I'll reach for a bit of dessert (measured and fitting into my cals and macros) and she'll make a comment, I explain to her that I can lose weight without living off lettuce and carrots, that this delicious piece of dessert fits into my day and is accounted for, and I can tell it really annoys her. I've offered to get her involved on her, even though she doesn't lose weight I think it would be significantly better for her health to be part of MFP instead of the various crash diets she does every other month but she refuses.
Right now I'm working on letting it go completely, and not getting a small little kick over making her mad or jealous when I tune her out, say I love my body, or that I can live balanced while losing weight each week. I'd like to be at peace with it all eventually, maybe I cannot forgive her entirely, but I'd like to be a big enough person to not enjoy getting that little rise out of her, because I know better, am educated in the field, and despite the pain she's given me, I know she's struggling on the inside.0 -
Fabulous!! I totally agree!0
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Affirmations help, they sound silly but write them out and read them daily. It helps, a lot.0
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I love this thread. Like many before me, my mother has all kinds of issues with my weight - from the time I was teenage and mighty skinny right up to where I am now. She's certainly not on the level of some of the terrifying creatures in this thread, but she DOES have an almost crippling fear of getting fat (her mother's big) and she broadcasts it onto her children.
Sadly she's great in OTHER ways, ultra reliable and organised and loves us in her odd, anti-maternal way, but yeah. She has issues.0 -
Gosh, I didn't realize I had all these siblings out there! Too be sure, these stories read EXactLY as my childhood with being called "Fat" at 110lbs from 16-24,the i gained wt to 125 and thought I looked better! I'd love to post a picture of me at 14, I skinny w/teats and hips.
((So, the next time people start on me about my non-existent relationship with my "parents" I am going to show direct them to this link...too true, I've not has any contact with them in 8 years this december and ya know what? I don't miss them at all...))
Thanks for sharing this with us!
-Pennie
PS - years ago a therapist told me comparing myself to my mother, or letting someone else do that was the worst thing in the world to do, or vice versa...made me feel good, 'cause I used to argue with the step-father about being told "you are exactly like your mother." haha. one day, after he said this, I looked at him and said "I don't see how you can say/think that when you call me fat and ugly, yet you think your wife is the most beautiful woman on the plant." that shut him up on that subject for good.0 -
just ordered it, you should ask for commission lol bless you for sharing your story and know that you are not alone, i was raised by a very verbally abusive mother and more recently my father has got so controlling, abusive and manipulative i no longer see him. glad to hear you've moved on and recognised these lies for what they are...lies :flowerforyou:0
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so you didn't forgive your mom?
un-forgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick
you don't forgive people for their sake, you do it for your own to live your life
parents are human and fallible, i know that's a different kind of hurt, but you hurt yourself more with un-forgiveness and reliving that hurt
There is presently no consensus for a psychological definition of forgiveness in the research literature, agreement has emerged that forgiveness is a process. There are different versions of "forgiveness", no one righter than the other.
You can say.. what you did in the past is IN the past... and if you want to call that "forgiveness", if that is your particular "version" of forgiveness, but that does not mean you should open yourself up to abuse again. If a person's "version" of forgiveness is just forget it about and go back to the toxic environment with no change in the relationship, because it is NOT possible, because, remember, you can't change them, then that is YOUR choice. I would not profess to tell anyone how they should deal with THEIR lives. Different people have different beliefs, and if your faith gets you through, that is fine, not everyone walks to the beat of the same drum.
If you read some of my other posts in this thread, you will also note, I have said, that parents are human, and no instruction manual comes with having children.
If you have endured emotional abuse for 40 years, you can't expect someone to say "oh well, they are human. Business as usual". Abuse of any kind leaves scars.. scars, whether physical or emotional take time to heal, and the only way to heal is 1. not put yourself in the "fire" and 2. it takes time.
I did not start the thread because I need help. I KNOW where I am, and I am comfortable with my actions and decisions regarding my family. MANY species have children, they leave the "nest", and the adults never see their offspring again. The reason creatures do this, is because the adults do not want to compete with their offspring, whether it is for food or territory. If you read this thread, sometimes, the problem is because of narcissistic, competitive parents, and in those situations, maybe distance is the best solution for all concerned. I am quite happy with my chosen path. I would not tell anyone else they were right or wrong, because whether it is a wrong decision or a right one.. it is THEIR decision.0 -
Had to post this
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Well said. I have one of those moms too. my favorite out of her mouth, 'you would be so pretty if you werent so fat' (she weighs in at 348) I am going to try that book. good luck on your journey.0
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Thank you-- I just requested that book from the library!0
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Thank you-- I just requested that book from the library!
I hope it helps.0 -
Well said. I have one of those moms too. my favorite out of her mouth, 'you would be so pretty if you werent so fat' (she weighs in at 348) I am going to try that book. good luck on your journey.
I am sorry you went through that, and I hope the book helps.
I wish you all the best on your journey to a healthier happier you
Kat0 -
((So, the next time people start on me about my non-existent relationship with my "parents" I am going to show direct them to this link...too true, I've not has any contact with them in 8 years this december and ya know what? I don't miss them at all...))
Thanks for sharing this with us!
-Pennie
PS - years ago a therapist told me comparing myself to my mother, or letting someone else do that was the worst thing in the world to do, or vice versa...made me feel good, 'cause I used to argue with the step-father about being told "you are exactly like your mother." haha. one day, after he said this, I looked at him and said "I don't see how you can say/think that when you call me fat and ugly, yet you think your wife is the most beautiful woman on the plant." that shut him up on that subject for good.
Thank you for sharing that, Pennie. I wish you all the best on your journey to a healthier happier you.0 -
Thank you, all for your comments. I hope the book has helped in some small way.0
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This is why I say that there are some out there who should NOT breed.Sounds like my mom. Except my mom's thing was jiggling my side every time I went in the kitchen to eat something, screaming at me for wearing my "fat pants" and to get on the scale so I could know just how disgusting I had become. But did she teach me healthy eating habits? Psh, no. I had to learn those on my own, several years after moving out of the house :P.0 -
Thanks for posting this, I get called fat by almost everyone. I get it because I'm a big guy and I've got a belly but it still hurts.0
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I feel everyone's pain in this one. I grew up with my parents being divorced from the time I was 4. My parents constantly bad mouthed each other and had completely different parenting styles. My dad left me with his parents to raise while he worked 10 -12 hours a day. Granted this is after he took custody of my sisters and myself because my mom threatened to raise the child support if he didn't start seeing us every once in a while. My mom always made sure we had food and could eat as we pleased. She tried to keep mostly healthy foods available. My grandparents spoiled my sisters and I and fed us what we asked for. I loved chocolate cream of wheat and cinnamon toast as a kid. I was a healthy weight until around 10 or 11 when my dad remarried. around then my dad made it so that I would never see my mother again. I slowly gained weight and had a hard time with depression. by high school I was around 200 pounds. By the time I was 16 I moved in with my mom and my weight kept creeping up. My mother always made comments about my weight and how If I had a pretty face, If I would just lose 20 pounds, I would be beautiful. She constantly competed with me over her weight and would get upset if I lost any weight when she wasn't. Every time I would try to lose weight, she would cook to sabotage me. After her car accident, she slowly gained weight until she was close to 350 pounds. My highest weight as 282 pounds, but my mother constantly put me down even though she weighed more than I did.0
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I have barely spoken to my mother for the better part of 17 years, and I have been MUCH better off because of it. I have forgiven her, but I have also moved on, and I know that she will not change, so I had to change, for myself and for my children. Sometimes things are too toxic to hold on to any longer, because the poison will only leak onto you if you don't let it go.0
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I've been there! My mother refuses to eat over 800 calories a day and is rail thin. She loves being thinner than me and happily gave me her fat clothes (which I did not ask for) but at the same time worries about my weight (I'm not overweight). GAH. So sick of the passive agressiveness at meals.0
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