To those doing very low cals (in the 600 to 1200 range)

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  • GrannySparkle
    GrannySparkle Posts: 225 Member
    [/quote]

    But if it works for a gastric bypass patient why does it not work for anyone else.
    [/quote]

    because these people are on a rigorous program with consequences that can be devastating if they don't follow them, with constant monitoring by health care professionals, blood work to confirm they aren't to low on micro-nutrients, and generally have a larger than normal volume of fat to draw from. Most people don't have the discipline to do this on their own. Even when used in a professional setting, the volume of lean mass lost is high, it's just not the normally recommended safe way to lose weight.
    This doesn't take into account the secondary tasks needed to be successful with WLS which includes follow up, a complete change and continued monitoring and altering of diet for months and sometimes years, and the dangers involved with surgery. Your doctor should have gone over all this with you though, and explained why these nutrition practices shouldn't be attempted without proper medical supervision.
    I'm talking about something that is much easier to integrate into a permanent lifestyle without making drastic changes. Sure it takes longer than crash diets do, but it's sustainable, and a much safer path to real maintenance.
    [/quote]

    Ok I can see your point. Yes I follow up with my surgeon. Once a month for 3 months and then every 3 months till I am 18 months post op. I do indeed get a lot of blood work. Every time I see the surgeon, I see the dietician. And the shrink is thrown in there from time to time. I am definitely not doing this on my own.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,428 MFP Moderator
    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...

    true

    but most people think "diet" means low total calories

    the concept of NET calories does not jive with how new people think of weight loss

    basic information about metabolism and healthy macros receive little if any emphasis here.

    MFP says 1200 calories with higher than needed carbs and lower than optimal protein and people just accept it

    Oh I completely agree. I would love if MFP had an option to revise macro's based on fitness goals. Essentially adjust carbs and protein away from the USDA standard.

    it does have the option

    go to goals
    change goals


    Oh i know.. i have my settings set up based on Katch McArdle. I meant I wish they would have one click options based on goals. For example, if you want to maintain then the USDA standard would work. But if you want to cut fat, then it could alter you macro's to 40/40/20 (c/p/f).
  • ahadj
    ahadj Posts: 257 Member
    This was a really interesting watch, and it made a lot of sense. A question for the OP (or anyone else who knows their stuff):

    This made me feel like I'm doing everything wrong. I'm doing approx. 45 min of cardio (usually running) 5x/week on approx. 1700 cals. Am I doing it wrong? Am I just screwing with my metabolism and making it harder to lose weight? (He talks about your body basically "getting used to" that amount of cardio on that amount of calories.) Or am I fine and just overthinking things? Help!
  • Koldnomore
    Koldnomore Posts: 1,613 Member
    This was a really interesting watch, and it made a lot of sense. A question for the OP (or anyone else who knows their stuff):

    This made me feel like I'm doing everything wrong. I'm doing approx. 45 min of cardio (usually running) 5x/week on approx. 1700 cals. Am I doing it wrong? Am I just screwing with my metabolism and making it harder to lose weight? (He talks about your body basically "getting used to" that amount of cardio on that amount of calories.) Or am I fine and just overthinking things? Help!

    No one can tell you that just from what you said, and I wouldn't say doing it 'wrong' but possibly not doing it as efficiently / safely as it could be done but who knows.. Have you worked out your TDEE? You have maybe 15 lbs to lose? so in your case your rate of loss needs to be much SLOWER than someone who has say 50 lbs to go. 0.5 lbs/week is ideal for your situation which means a very modest cut from your TDEE (maybe 10%) Without working out that number it's impossible to even guess what you should be at.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,428 MFP Moderator
    This was a really interesting watch, and it made a lot of sense. A question for the OP (or anyone else who knows their stuff):

    This made me feel like I'm doing everything wrong. I'm doing approx. 45 min of cardio (usually running) 5x/week on approx. 1700 cals. Am I doing it wrong? Am I just screwing with my metabolism and making it harder to lose weight? (He talks about your body basically "getting used to" that amount of cardio on that amount of calories.) Or am I fine and just overthinking things? Help!

    You probably aren't doing anything wrong but if you incorporate weight training, two things will improve.. first, your body will retain or increase the retention of lean body mass and second, you will see increase athletic performance. Low rep high weight training will improve explosive power. You can do that in combination with some light weight high rep sets to improve muscle endurance.
  • Chikipiwi
    Chikipiwi Posts: 117 Member
    watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

    So I am one of those ppl that eat 1200 cals per day and wanted to say THANK YOU so much for sharing this video.

    To all of the ppl saying it's bogus and it's not the same bc they aren't body builders blah blah blah you're terribly wrong! Those "body builders" stick to these diets so of course they are a better reference than to use someone who does a diet for a month and gives up(normal dieters). I have been dieting all my life, I've tried them all, along with every exercise routine that's out there!
    Last year I was sustaining my weight of 165lbs (overweight for my height 5'6") by eating only 500 cals per day. I worked out 4 times a week and lost at the most 5 lbs over a 3 month period! Since then I have slowly built up to 1200 cals per day (today is my first day on the 1300)and I currently weigh 162lbs. When I first began the extreme low cal diets I would be able to drop weight quickly and reach my goals (135lbs) and sustain it for a few months. Even if I kept at the low cal intake I would slowly start to gain weight back. I had messed my metabolism up so badly that in order for me to even attempt losing weight I had to starve myself, which btw I was so used to not eating that I could go a day without eating and my stomach would not even growl!
    So to all the ppl who say that their body requires you to only eat that low amount and function perfectly bc everyone is different, umm duh that is kinda his point- you have damaged your metabolism so badly that it has adjusted to this! I know personally though that when I was still in denial of this that no matter what anyone told me I wouldn't listen. It will take most ppl to have their own wake up call in order to realize what is really going on. I figured mine out and now I am slowly but surely trying to fix it and get back to eating like a normal person, and I must say having more food is awesome lol.


    AMEN! I just upped my calories to 1370 (from 1200) trying to to find my maintnence number and boom! I've lost 2.5 pounds in 3 week.

    I am very short 4'11 and weight ~103lbs.


    In o
  • Matt_Wild
    Matt_Wild Posts: 2,673 Member
    Nice to see people are realising that us bodybuilders aren't a subspecies of humans, just exactly the same!
  • dreamingchild
    dreamingchild Posts: 208 Member
    Thanks for sharing this. Hope the criticism does not discourage you and others from sharing. It is up to us individually to decide what works and what does not, what information to trust and which one to dismiss. It is up to us to make our decisions. But I appreciate people sharing information, their experiences here. I like to have wide variety of information available to help me to make my decisions.

    I agree!!
  • denezy
    denezy Posts: 573 Member
    I've yet to see someone posting the benefits of eating 1200 calories a day that I aspire to look like.
  • TheSink
    TheSink Posts: 97 Member
    *sigh*...... if people would just watch the darn blog they'd understand. Sorry, but I just hate when people get all caught up in the minutia and ignore the message.

    And I just hate when people start a GD thread on here that gets covered, like, 10 times a week.
  • hiker359
    hiker359 Posts: 577 Member
    pitythefool1.jpg
  • DoingitWell
    DoingitWell Posts: 560 Member
    Thanks for posting this information, don't take people who don't understand your point for posting this to heart.
  • shannonshock13
    shannonshock13 Posts: 355 Member
    Do you think 1200 calories will preserve your current muscle mass?

    I didn't have much muscle mass to begin with. I hurt my back in the middle of dieting and therefore didn't work out other than cardio since June, so I probably did not preserve it. Not ideal, but I don't think that I irrevocably damaged myself by losing weight this way. Also, mfp actually recommends a 1200 calorie diet. I don't think they would recommend something that's going to be damaging.

    So you want to get fat more easily, yes?

    Its as simple as this. Put it this way, this is my other half Yo Lazarov:

    abzilla.jpg

    She DIETS on 1600 calories and for 2 days out of every 8 has around 2500 calories. Why would you want to eat less and have poorer results?

    Just trying to help you. Its not an attack, its a genuine question to help you improve your dieting and get the results you may wish to achieve.


    Now you stressed me out and I ate the free cookies and hot chocolate that my office gave out today.

    Preeettty sure he can't make you do or eat anything....
  • Victoria2448
    Victoria2448 Posts: 559 Member
    I've yet to see someone posting the benefits of eating 1200 calories a day that I aspire to look like.

    ^^^^^

    This!
  • TheSink
    TheSink Posts: 97 Member
    I've yet to see someone posting the benefits of eating 1200 calories a day that I aspire to look like.

    ^^^^^

    This!

    Any examples of this that you can post, or is this just you being overdramatic?

    What I find funny is the sheer number of people on here berating the "1,200 crew" while most of the 1,200 crew remain virtually silent.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    *sigh*...... if people would just watch the darn blog they'd understand. Sorry, but I just hate when people get all caught up in the minutia and ignore the message.

    And I just hate when people start a GD thread on here that gets covered, like, 10 times a week.

    I start threads when I have information I think might be valuable to others. Apparently others benefitted from it judging by the responses. I don't care if the subject is never talked about, or talked about every day, if I think something I post will benefit others, I post it.
  • IronGirlShae
    IronGirlShae Posts: 58 Member
    I know a girl (not well, an online pal) who exercises a lot regularly, and many days she eats about 500 cal, sometimes exercising to burn off even more than she eats. She has negative net calories sometimes. I don't think I've ever seen her eat more than 1300 calories, and even then she probably burned 900+ exercising. I worry about her. I don't know if its an eating disorder or not.

    I lost 3.4 lbs my first week, and normally I eat all my calories(1380), and usually about 1/2 or more of my exercise calories if I work out.
  • Kvanstrom
    Kvanstrom Posts: 11
    Yeah, I do 1200, but that is post workout. If I didn't work out, it usually is between 1500 and 1600.
  • kaseysospacey
    kaseysospacey Posts: 499 Member
    What about morbidly or supermorbidly obese on a doctor supervised VLCD? I guess this video can judge me better than a team of doctors can.
  • mhotch
    mhotch Posts: 901 Member
    Bump to read tonight.
  • SarahofTwins
    SarahofTwins Posts: 1,169 Member
    I know you mean well and want most to be healthy and not starve. Understandable. People will have differences in opinions just as doctors might. I know what works for me and it might not work for others. I think its based on many factors to include different lifestyles. I love to keep it high in protein around 1200-1300. :drinker:
  • wswilliams67
    wswilliams67 Posts: 938 Member
    I've seen this. I agree with most of his points, although he could have made them in 5 minutes instead of rambling for 30. If you do the math correctly and regularly you should never have any problems.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    What about morbidly or supermorbidly obese on a doctor supervised VLCD? I guess this video can judge me better than a team of doctors can.

    I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're telling them that a doctor supervised program is contradictory to the idea of reduced metabolism. It's not and we aren't. If you are on a special program, being supervised by qualified medical personel, then why would you think that this program, which talks about LONG term deficits and what that does to the RMR, would conflict with that? First, VLCD's are usually short term, a few months at the outside, but generally 3 to 5 weeks long. Second, they are designed to take people from immediate risk situations down into a more manageable situation.

    Nobody is saying that what was in the video is what is happening to everyone who is at a plateau or eating at a deficit, all it's saying is that it's quite common for people, after a lifetime of dieting, to have created a situation where there RMR and TDEE are lower than the calculations would predict, thus reducing the amount of calories needed to maintain and lose weight. It talks about causes, outcomes, and possible ways to repair the situation. The Author of the vlog is not saying that this situation applies to everyone, nor is he trying to tell anyone to do anything radical to remedy the situation, rather he's supportive of "slowing your roll" raising your calories back up near maintenance by a process of increase, test, repeat until you hit maintenance. This is a very sensible approach which allows people to find their actual TDEE and repair their possibly damaged RMR and metabolism.
  • Juliejustsaying
    Juliejustsaying Posts: 2,332 Member
    bump
  • SloRunner25
    SloRunner25 Posts: 89 Member
    Thanks for the video! I liked it. :)

    I know for me I need to eat at least 1600 calories per day to lose weight. I'm a decently tall (5'7") and well built woman and I've managed to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week by making the right food choices and trying to cut as much fast food from my diet as possible. I started with a calorie intake of 1200-1500 and the scale wasn't moving! I kicked it up to 1600-1750 per day and the weight is coming off. But every BODY is different. Personally I'd rather be able to eat more so I like that I can take in more food and still lose weight slowly and healthy. This is a lifestyle change for me so I'm taking it slow.

    Take care of your body and it will take care of you. :heart:
  • Lyssa62
    Lyssa62 Posts: 930 Member
    I start threads when I have information I think might be valuable to others. Apparently others benefitted from it judging by the responses. I don't care if the subject is never talked about, or talked about every day, if I think something I post will benefit others, I post it.

    thank you for posting it. I have also shared it in my group and they too have benefited from it. BTW I have never seen this posted before so THANK YOU for posting it again if it has been.

    I am working on changing my goals on here now and rethinking my exercise routine!
  • sassylm22
    sassylm22 Posts: 54
    Just because someone has a PhD means nothing about what they're saying.
    I could have a PhD in nutrition and tell everyone that 3 glasses of wine a day is healthy and you can live off of it for extended periods of time do they have to believe me just because I wrote a thesis and went to school for longer which obviously must mean I know so much more.

    Yes correct.

    But then the science is given to back it up. And he has applied it to people he coaches. He has also written many artciles.

    Strange how many people reject this piece just because he's a bodybuilder and use the fact he's got PHD to ignore him.

    What would make people listen?
    so true! I'm listening ;)
  • sassylm22
    sassylm22 Posts: 54
    pitythefool1.jpg
    lmao!!
  • sassylm22
    sassylm22 Posts: 54
    thanks for the info! :happy:
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
    pitythefool1.jpg
    lmao!!

    Some people need to be a little more open-minded I think but I guess they are just too thick to understand people are trying to help. Thanks for the video.

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