going vegetarian in 2013

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  • Taem2
    Taem2 Posts: 47 Member
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    There is no such thing as a healthy ovo-laco vegetarian. Oh look, my opinion again.

    With all due respect, your opinion is absurd.


    Hi, I really don't want to discuss something off-topic. However, since people feel the need to comment on it, here we go.

    Empirical evidence of how eggs do in your salads (when you buy them):
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/Recall_005_2012_Release/index.asp
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/Recall_007_2012_Release/index.asp
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/Recall_006_2012_Release/index.asp
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/Recall_003_2012_Release/index.asp

    Pretty much, you get Listeria contamination.

    Here is a Canadian doctor who wants to prevent strokes, due to egg consumption:
    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/whose-health-unaffected-by-eggs/

    Which has more dietary cholesterol, where does the egg stand?
    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/avoiding-cholesterol-is-a-no-brainer/
    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/egg-cholesterol-in-the-diet/

    I'm only going to give one link for milk, unless there is more "your opinion is invalid" response.

    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/food-sources-of-pcb-chemical-pollutants/

    Going for my run!

    Oh for the love of Pete. Whatever. Enjoy your run.

    You got that.

    nurttionfacts.org is founded by Dr Michael Greger, who is a vegan. There are no studies, just video blogs on the links provided.

    With regard to the listeria recalls. How does a couple of recalls of salads relate to there not being a healthy lacto ovo vegetarian? I don't eat cobb salad, or any salad with eggs in it, so I must be ok then. Its a little silly - there have been recalls of spinach before.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654?

    "dietary recommendations aimed at restricting egg consumption should not be generalized to include all individuals. We need to acknowledge that diverse healthy populations experience no risk in developing coronary heart disease by increasing their intake of cholesterol but, in contrast, they may have multiple beneficial effects by the inclusion of eggs in their regular diet."

    A couple of recalls?

    Also, his 'research' is based of pubmed articles which he vets (they are published in peer reviewed journals), go to the links on his website, he lists all the research papers there. He doesn't make things up, he summarizes the research. But of course, you don't care to know that or don't know that. Funny, if you watch the videos, the articles are clearly seen in the background.

    Edited here
    If you care to look at the links I provided, lets say the first one (not the fsis recall links) and scroll down, you will see sources cited. I copy and paste it for your benefit.
    Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Apr;87(4):799-800. Egg consumption in relation to cardiovascular disease and mortality: the story gets more complex. Eckel RH.



    J. A. Nettleton, L. M. Steffen, L. R. Loehr, W. D. Rosamond, and A. R. Folsom. Incident heart failure is associated with lower whole-grain intake and greater high-fat dairy and egg intake in the atherosclerosis risk in communities (aric) study. J Am Diet Assoc, 108(11):1881-1887, 2008.

    Djoussé L, Gaziano JM, Buring JE, Lee IM.Egg consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes in men and women. Diabetes Care. 2009 Feb;32(2):295-300. Epub 2008 Nov 18.

    End edit---

    He is also "serves as the Director of Public Health and Animal Agriculture at the Humane Society of the United States." So yes, he is a vegan. http://www.drgreger.org/bio.html

    Rich Roll, author of Finding Ultra, interviewed Dr. Greger in his Dec. podcast.
    http://www.richroll.com/podcast/007-michael-greger/

    Thanks for your input. Now waiting for the "whatever" response.
  • lilylux
    lilylux Posts: 109 Member
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    Hi OP - I was vegetarian for four years, have now transitioned to a pescetarian diet - I still mainly eat plant based foods though - f you would like to add me as a friend to share ideas I'd be happy to be friends :)

    I think being a veg*n requires just as much thought and effort as an omnivorous diet - both veg*n's and omni's have to consciously try to make healthy choices to improve their health, you can be a lazy/unhealthy veg*n just as much as a lazy/unhealthy omni.

    As it's been said before - take a good multi and be aware of how your body responds to foods.

    PS chocolatecoveredkatie.com is amazing and caters to those who are veg, vegan or gluten intolerant
    PPS good luck and Happy New Year!!
    PPPS I'm a bit confused as to why someone with the handle 'meatforme' is so strongly advocating a vegan diet.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I haven't gone completely vegetarian yet, only seafood and eggs-- but I must admit, it's pretty hard to get all my daily protein intake, although I love how I feel and don't miss any of the other meats at all. Any tips for getting protein??

    Dark leafy greens have protein and very few calories, so that's yet another reason why they are important. Sprinkling nutritional yeast on everything ups the protein value. Frankly, I'm curious about what you consider too little protein and what you are eating. Its pretty impossible to end up with too little protein if your diet is healthy. Protein is everywhere. Fruit, veggies, grains, beans, nuts; they all have plenty of protein. MFP is actually a pretty good way of learning that. It shows protein goals, and while some people choose to go higher, you can be sure that you're not deficient if you stick with their goal.
    The amount of protein in produce is next to nothing. Leafy greens are important for many reasons. They are not a reliable, good source of protein.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    A couple of recalls?

    Also, his 'research' is based of pubmed articles which he vets (they are published in peer reviewed journals), go to the links on his website, he lists all the research papers there. He doesn't make things up, he summarizes the research. But of course, you don't care to know that or don't know that. Funny, if you watch the videos, the articles are clearly seen in the background.

    Edited here
    If you care to look at the links I provided, lets say the first one (not the fsis recall links) and scroll down, you will see sources cited. I copy and paste it for your benefit.
    Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Apr;87(4):799-800. Egg consumption in relation to cardiovascular disease and mortality: the story gets more complex. Eckel RH.



    J. A. Nettleton, L. M. Steffen, L. R. Loehr, W. D. Rosamond, and A. R. Folsom. Incident heart failure is associated with lower whole-grain intake and greater high-fat dairy and egg intake in the atherosclerosis risk in communities (aric) study. J Am Diet Assoc, 108(11):1881-1887, 2008.

    Djoussé L, Gaziano JM, Buring JE, Lee IM.Egg consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes in men and women. Diabetes Care. 2009 Feb;32(2):295-300. Epub 2008 Nov 18.

    End edit---

    He is also "serves as the Director of Public Health and Animal Agriculture at the Humane Society of the United States." So yes, he is a vegan. http://www.drgreger.org/bio.html

    Rich Roll, author of Finding Ultra, interviewed Dr. Greger in his Dec. podcast.
    http://www.richroll.com/podcast/007-michael-greger/

    Thanks for your input. Now waiting for the "whatever" response.
    Dude, seriously, give it up.

    Your "opinion" is patently false. Period. Several people just hanging out in this thread prove you wrong.

    If we're going to stop eating certain foods because at some point there was a recal due to contamination, I hope you no longer eat spinach or lettuce or probably pretty much anything at all.

    Even if you grow it yourself, there is a risk that what you are eating has some kind of bug on it that will make you sick.

    I eat a salad with cheese and a hard-boiled egg pretty much daily. No food poisoning yet. In fact, for pretty much my entire adult life, I have had no more than a mild cold once every five years or so.
  • bmcall
    bmcall Posts: 1 Member
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    I have recently gone vegetarian(1.5mths now) the reason wasn't because of animals, although I share my home with three furry friends. My system isn't handling meat as it use to and I feel Sick when eating it. So not vegan (still eating eggs and dairy), but not a bit of meat (seafood, poultry,red meats, etc). I was surprised at what people thought vegetarianism was, went in a restaurant and asked if they have any vegetarian options and he said, "we have chicken and salmon", this has happened a lot, they think poultry and seafood are part of the vegetarian menu. The biggest part is the constant explaining and having to check what does and doesn't have meat and requesting "special" meals for business meetings etc. I was surprised at how saturated our society is in meat, try going to fast food and order something that isn't fries or salad (hold the chicken). Any hoo, my problem now is trying to eat healthy, it is easy to go to the high fat options, when meatless....dabbling in the meatless meat and tofu now...good luck!
  • slimsconie
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    I want to do this but at least 4 times a year, I want a nice steak:) once every 3 months, I want to treat myself. I'm very well disciplined and have excellent will power. Who knows, I probably wouldn't even miss that steak. I'm fasting now so I'm off to a great start.

    slimsconie
  • matrixkingdom
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    Meat is loaded with saturated fat and a lot of cholesterol. Our body produces enough cholesterol in the liver, therefore we do not need more of it. That is part of why our bodies are designed to be herbivores. When you consume a lot of animal protein (you get way too much protein this way) and you get what is called hypercalciuria which excretes calcium out of your body to regulate the acidity, which is caused from the sulfur meat contains. Generally speaking, meat & dairy both clog your arteries and THAT is the main cause of heart disease today. Not just that it clogs your arteries, but in combination of not eating enough fruits and vegetables (which unclogs your arteries) can be fatal to your health. If you dropped all dairy from your diet, limit yourself to 4oz of meat per day and eat 4 servings of fruit and 5 servings of vegetables, you would be in a much healthier state (especially if you have illnesses/diseases) -- Meat is bad for you, and all dairy & eggs are even worse.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,994 Member
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    Meat is loaded with saturated fat and a lot of cholesterol. Our body produces enough cholesterol in the liver, therefore we do not need more of it. That is part of why our bodies are designed to be herbivores. When you consume a lot of animal protein (you get way too much protein this way) and you get what is called hypercalciuria which excretes calcium out of your body to regulate the acidity, which is caused from the sulfur meat contains. Generally speaking, meat & dairy both clog your arteries and THAT is the main cause of heart disease today. Not just that it clogs your arteries, but in combination of not eating enough fruits and vegetables (which unclogs your arteries) can be fatal to your health. If you dropped all dairy from your diet, limit yourself to 4oz of meat per day and eat 4 servings of fruit and 5 servings of vegetables, you would be in a much healthier state (especially if you have illnesses/diseases) -- Meat is bad for you, and all dairy & eggs are even worse.
    W o W.................I just lost a few brain cells reading this.:smile:
  • gingerveg
    gingerveg Posts: 748 Member
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    I was a veggie for about a year and really messed up my body. I am not knocking it by any means but if you want to be a vegetarian you really have to watch what you eat to make sure you are getting the nutrition that you need! That's where I failed. Now I try to get meat and dairy from places where I know the animals were not harmed.
    I never understand these responses. Being healthy means watching what you eat whether you are omni or veg. you cant blame being unhealthy and making poor food choices on a plant based diet. I have never found being veg to be that hard. I've been vegetarian for over 25 years it's never made me sick, I've never had problems with protein or omegas (check out my hair in my avatar), I've never been anemic, B deficiencies, underweight or overweight... Etc

    OP congratulations! There are many of us out here in full support of a plant-based lifestyle. I'm currently trying to transition back to vegan but yeah everything I eat is at least vegetarian so feel free to friend me.
  • daffodilsoup
    daffodilsoup Posts: 1,972 Member
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    So glad to hear that you are pursuing this lifestyle :) I recently hit my two-year veganniversary - the lifestyle makes me feel good physically and mentally.

    Some great recipe sites:
    - www.ohsheglows.com
    - www.theppk.com
    - www.veganyumyum.com
    - www.ivu.org/recipes (this is my favorite - delicious recipes from all over the world! My favorite section is sub-Saharan Africa).

    If you are logging your food in MFP, then it's easy to keep track of macros and nutrients - don't let people lead you to believe that life as a healthy vegetarian is any more difficult than life as a healthy omnivore. Living meat-free is easy if you are committed to it and your health!
  • KombuchaCat
    KombuchaCat Posts: 834 Member
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    I've been vegan for 2 years, vegetarian for about 5 years before that. It's not as hard as everyone seems to think it is. You have to look at it as a happy thing that is fullfilling not drudgery. Eat healthy, lots of variety, take a good multiviamin and you'll be fine. Friend me if you would like another veg friend.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Take a good multiviamin and you'll be fine.
    Check the ingredients first to make sure it doesn't have gelatin. Most do.
  • bionicrooster
    bionicrooster Posts: 353 Member
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    Meat is loaded with saturated fat and a lot of cholesterol. Our body produces enough cholesterol in the liver, therefore we do not need more of it. That is part of why our bodies are designed to be herbivores. When you consume a lot of animal protein (you get way too much protein this way) and you get what is called hypercalciuria which excretes calcium out of your body to regulate the acidity, which is caused from the sulfur meat contains. Generally speaking, meat & dairy both clog your arteries and THAT is the main cause of heart disease today. Not just that it clogs your arteries, but in combination of not eating enough fruits and vegetables (which unclogs your arteries) can be fatal to your health. If you dropped all dairy from your diet, limit yourself to 4oz of meat per day and eat 4 servings of fruit and 5 servings of vegetables, you would be in a much healthier state (especially if you have illnesses/diseases) -- Meat is bad for you, and all dairy & eggs are even worse.

    Not to interrupt a very good thread, but this post is loaded with miss information. Our bodies are designed to be omnivores. And meat, like most things, is not bad for you in the correct amounts.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Meat is loaded with saturated fat and a lot of cholesterol. Our body produces enough cholesterol in the liver, therefore we do not need more of it. That is part of why our bodies are designed to be herbivores. When you consume a lot of animal protein (you get way too much protein this way) and you get what is called hypercalciuria which excretes calcium out of your body to regulate the acidity, which is caused from the sulfur meat contains. Generally speaking, meat & dairy both clog your arteries and THAT is the main cause of heart disease today. Not just that it clogs your arteries, but in combination of not eating enough fruits and vegetables (which unclogs your arteries) can be fatal to your health. If you dropped all dairy from your diet, limit yourself to 4oz of meat per day and eat 4 servings of fruit and 5 servings of vegetables, you would be in a much healthier state (especially if you have illnesses/diseases) -- Meat is bad for you, and all dairy & eggs are even worse.

    Not to interrupt a very good thread, but this post is loaded with miss information. Our bodies are designed to be omnivores. And meat, like most things, is not bad for you in the correct amounts.
    I agree (and I'm a veg). I just had no idea how to even begin addressing this post so I ignored it.
  • Taem2
    Taem2 Posts: 47 Member
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    Wow, that equates to a whole lot of dead people.....Hmm

    No dear, that equates to unhealthy people.
    :noway:

    quotes Sarauk2sf:

    "With regard to the listeria recalls. How does a couple of recalls of salads relate to there not being a healthy lacto ovo vegetarian? I don't eat cobb salad, or any salad with eggs in it, so I must be ok then. Its a little silly - there have been recalls of spinach before."

    Sept. 22, 2010
    More than half a billion eggs were recalled because of salmonella-related illnesses, and the FDA traced the outbreak to Hillandale and Wright County Egg. Several health and safety violations were later found at the farms.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-nations-food-recalls-anger-pain-and-death/2010/10/21/gIQAev734K_gallery.html#photo=7

    So, companies can't prepare eggs, no matter how "easy it is to prepare" it and they've been doing it for years. Evidently, half a billion eggs got through that crack...

    quoting her again.
    "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654?

    "dietary recommendations aimed at restricting egg consumption should not be generalized to include all individuals. We need to acknowledge that diverse healthy populations experience no risk in developing coronary heart disease by increasing their intake of cholesterol but, in contrast, they may have multiple beneficial effects by the inclusion of eggs in their regular diet."

    I have shown previously that eggs have the second highest amount of cholesterol. Cholesterol being produced by our bodies and unless your body can't produce it, we are fine without eating dietary cholesterol, no matter what benefits it gives to healthy people. The article doesn't define healthy people, but I am going to presume that it means people with normal levels of cholesterol. So, to paraphrase, her quote, If you are healthy, you can risk your cholesterol levels getting higher (increase your risk of stroke or CHD) so you can gain some benefits. So, by your own evidence, these researchers admit that egg consumption should only be allowed for "healthy" people and here is what they fail to include, because egg consumption will raise your cholesterol.

    Quoting rml_16
    "Check the ingredients first to make sure it doesn't have gelatin. Most do."

    This was her response to multi-vitamins containing gelatin, an animal by-product.

    You know what else is an animal by-product? Eggs, and dairy. So, rml, you don't mind telling people to raise their cholesterol levels but, heavens to Betsy, don't eat that multi-vitamin because it contains gelatin! Something OBVIOUSLY much worse that cholesterol.

    Most vegetarians and vegans go this route for health or because they are against the cruel treatment done to animals. Male chickens, for egg companies, cannot lay eggs, so they are killed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5H9audCRQ

    So, there is no good reason to eat eggs. But you say to watch out for gelatin in multi-vitamins? Excuse me, I think your sensibilities are miss-aligned. Please, do not call yourself a (whatever)-vegetarian. Just call yourself a picky animal by-product eater.

    Going for my run!
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Quoting rml_16
    "Check the ingredients first to make sure it doesn't have gelatin. Most do."

    This was her response to multi-vitamins containing gelatin, an animal by-product.

    You know what else is an animal by-product? Eggs, and dairy. So, rml, you don't mind telling people to raise their cholesterol levels but, heavens to Betsy, don't eat that multi-vitamin because it contains gelatin! Something OBVIOUSLY much worse that cholesterol.

    I eat eggs daily. My cholesterol is fine. It was high and it went down without medical intervention. Again, I eat eggs every day. I was healthy when I ate steak and hamburgers and I'm healthy now that I don't. I also eat cheese and yogurt almost daily.

    In order to make gelatin, one must actually kill an animal. No animal dies in order for me to eat an egg. I am vegetarian not for health reasons, but because I don't want to eat dead animals, which is the reason stated by the OP. Therefore, my advice was accurate and appropriate.

    You don't know what you're talking about. Also, cholesterol alone is not necessarily an indicator of bad health. You also have to look at blood pressure and triglyceride levels. Maybe educate yourself in full before spouting off nonsense.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    quotes Sarauk2sf:

    "With regard to the listeria recalls. How does a couple of recalls of salads relate to there not being a healthy lacto ovo vegetarian? I don't eat cobb salad, or any salad with eggs in it, so I must be ok then. Its a little silly - there have been recalls of spinach before."

    Sept. 22, 2010
    More than half a billion eggs were recalled because of salmonella-related illnesses, and the FDA traced the outbreak to Hillandale and Wright County Egg. Several health and safety violations were later found at the farms.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-nations-food-recalls-anger-pain-and-death/2010/10/21/gIQAev734K_gallery.html#photo=7

    So, companies can't prepare eggs, no matter how "easy it is to prepare" it and they've been doing it for years. Evidently, half a billion eggs got through that crack...

    quoting her again.
    "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654?

    "dietary recommendations aimed at restricting egg consumption should not be generalized to include all individuals. We need to acknowledge that diverse healthy populations experience no risk in developing coronary heart disease by increasing their intake of cholesterol but, in contrast, they may have multiple beneficial effects by the inclusion of eggs in their regular diet."

    I have shown previously that eggs have the second highest amount of cholesterol. Cholesterol being produced by our bodies and unless your body can't produce it, we are fine without eating dietary cholesterol, no matter what benefits it gives to healthy people. The article doesn't define healthy people, but I am going to presume that it means people with normal levels of cholesterol. So, to paraphrase, her quote, If you are healthy, you can risk your cholesterol levels getting higher (increase your risk of stroke or CHD) so you can gain some benefits. So, by your own evidence, these researchers admit that egg consumption should only be allowed for "healthy" people and here is what they fail to include, because egg consumption will raise your cholesterol.


    *sigh*

    There are recalls on a lot of things - remember the e. coli ones for spinach?

    Also, re cholesterol - you do realize that there are two types?

    You obviously did not actually go into the study, but if you insist on re-hashing this, here is the body of the text:

    "The lack of connection between heart disease and egg intake could partially be explained by the fact that dietary cholesterol increases the concentrations of both circulating LDL and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol in those individuals who experience an increase in plasma cholesterol following egg consumption (hyperresponders). It is also important to note that 70% of the population experiences a mild increase or no alterations in plasma cholesterol concentrations when challenged with high amounts of dietary cholesterol (hyporesponders). Egg intake has been shown to promote the formation of large LDL, in addition to shifting individuals from the LDL pattern B to pattern A, which is less atherogenic. Eggs are also good sources of antioxidants known to protect the eye; therefore, increased plasma concentrations of lutein and zeaxanthin in individuals consuming eggs are also of interest, especially in those populations susceptible to developing macular degeneration and eye cataracts."

    As with anything, at the individual level, if someone has risk factors they need to be more careful with what they eat. I am not sure how you got 'eggs are unhealthy' from this.

    See this also:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023005

    "For over 25 years eggs have been the icon for the fat, cholesterol and caloric excesses in the American diet, and the message to limit eggs to lower heart disease risk has been widely circulated. The "dietary cholesterol equals blood cholesterol" view is a standard of dietary recommendations, yet few consider whether the evidence justifies such restrictions. Over 50 years of cholesterol-feeding studies show that dietary cholesterol does have a small effect on plasma cholesterol concentrations. The 167 cholesterol feeding studies in over 3,500 subjects in the literature indicate that a 100 mg change in dietary cholesterol changes plasma total cholesterol by 2.2 mg/dL. Today we recognize that dietary effects on plasma cholesterol must be viewed from effects on the atherogenic LDL cholesterol as well as anti-atherogenic HDL cholesterol since the ratio of LDL:HDL cholesterol is a major determinant of heart disease risk. Cholesterol feeding studies demonstrate that dietary cholesterol increases both LDL and HDL cholesterol with little change in the LDL:HDL ratio. Addition of 100 mg cholesterol per day to the diet increases total cholesterol with a 1.9 mg/dL increase in LDL cholesterol and a 0.4 mg/dL increase in HDL cholesterol. On average, the LDL:HDL ratio change per 100 mg/day change in dietary cholesterol is from 2.60 to 2.61, which would be predicted to have little effect on heart disease risk. These data help explain the epidemiological studies showing that dietary cholesterol is not related to coronary heart disease incidence or mortality across or within populations."

    and here:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023006

    "Serum cholesterol has been established as a modifiable risk factor for coronary heart disease. Experimental feeding studies show that saturated fat and cholesterol increase serum cholesterol levels; thus, dietary recommendations for lowering the risk of heart disease proscribe the intake of both substances. Recommendations have also included limits on the intake of eggs because of their high cholesterol content. In free-living populations, diet reflects a pattern of associated choices. Increases in one food may lead to changes in the consumption of other foods that may modulate disease risk. Epidemiologic data are helpful in assessing the importance of foods and nutrients in the context in which they are actually consumed. We review epidemiologic data relating dietary cholesterol and eggs to coronary disease risk. Cholesterol intake was associated with a modest increase in the risk of coronary events. The true magnitude of the association is difficult to estimate because most studies fail to account for potential confounding by other features of the diet. When a full-range of confounding factors was considered, the association between cholesterol intake and heart disease risk was small (6% increase in risk for 200mg/1,000kcal/day difference in cholesterol intake). Several studies have examined egg intake and its relationship with coronary outcomes. All but one failed to consider the role of other potentially confounding dietary factors. When dietary confounders were considered, no association was seen between egg consumption at levels up to 1 + egg per day and the risk of coronary heart disease in non-diabetic men and women."

    and this:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7124663

    "The Framingham Study has investigated the effect of host and environmental factors on the development of coronary heart disease since 1949. Serum cholesterol level was determined to the one of the risk factors for coronary heart disease. The nutrient intake, in a subsample of the study population, was determined in 1957. A review of this material has permitted an estimate of egg consumption on each of 912 subjects. The serum cholesterol distribution curves of the subjects according to tertile of egg intake were almost identical, and no relationship between egg intake and coronary heart disease incidence was found. It is concluded that within the range of egg intake of this population differences in egg consumption were unrelated to blood cholesterol level or to coronary heart disease incidence."
  • Taem2
    Taem2 Posts: 47 Member
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    [

    In order to make gelatin, one must actually kill an animal. No animal dies in order for me to eat an egg. I am vegetarian not for health reasons, but because I don't want to eat dead animals, which is the reason stated by the OP. Therefore, my advice was accurate and appropriate.

    I guess you didn't want to see that in order to get female chickens, the male baby chick is killed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5H9audCRQ

    So, yes, you are killing animals for eggs.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    [

    In order to make gelatin, one must actually kill an animal. No animal dies in order for me to eat an egg. I am vegetarian not for health reasons, but because I don't want to eat dead animals, which is the reason stated by the OP. Therefore, my advice was accurate and appropriate.

    I guess you didn't want to see that in order to get female chickens, the male baby chick is killed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5H9audCRQ

    So, yes, you are killing animals for eggs.
    You mean you have to sacrifice a male chicken in order for a female chicken to exist? because that is what you just said.
  • Taem2
    Taem2 Posts: 47 Member
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    *sigh*

    There are recalls on a lot of things - remember the e. coli ones for spinach?

    Spinach doesn't poop on itself.

    The argument, if you didn't realize, is that food preparation is not as good as you or others here might like it to be. Over half a billion eggs recalled, hard-boiled egg salads found with disease. If you bothered looking past that slide, you would see the owner of one of the egg companies had to testify.

    Sept. 22, 2010

    Austin "Jack" DeCoster, the owner of Wright County Egg, told members of a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee that he was "horrified" to learn that his products might have been the cause of the salmonella-related illnesses. His farm had long lacked sophisticated technology to combat the contamination, but he said that his company's methods had evolved and that it was using modern techniques before the salmonella outbreak. During the hearing, photos of conditions on the farm were shown: dead and live mice, mounds of manure and dead chickens in a heap.

    Melina Mara / The Washington Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-nations-food-recalls-anger-pain-and-death/2010/10/21/gIQAev734K_gallery.html#photo=8
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023005

    "For over 25 years eggs have been the icon for the fat, cholesterol and caloric excesses in the American diet, and the message to limit eggs to lower heart disease risk has been widely circulated. The "dietary cholesterol equals blood cholesterol" view is a standard of dietary recommendations, yet few consider whether the evidence justifies such restrictions. Over 50 years of cholesterol-feeding studies show that dietary cholesterol does have a small effect on plasma cholesterol concentrations. The 167 cholesterol feeding studies in over 3,500 subjects in the literature indicate that a 100 mg change in dietary cholesterol changes plasma total cholesterol by 2.2 mg/dL. Today we recognize that dietary effects on plasma cholesterol must be viewed from effects on the atherogenic LDL cholesterol as well as anti-atherogenic HDL cholesterol since the ratio of LDL:HDL cholesterol is a major determinant of heart disease risk. Cholesterol feeding studies demonstrate that dietary cholesterol increases both LDL and HDL cholesterol with little change in the LDL:HDL ratio. Addition of 100 mg cholesterol per day to the diet increases total cholesterol with a 1.9 mg/dL increase in LDL cholesterol and a 0.4 mg/dL increase in HDL cholesterol. On average, the LDL:HDL ratio change per 100 mg/day change in dietary cholesterol is from 2.60 to 2.61, which would be predicted to have little effect on heart disease risk. These data help explain the epidemiological studies showing that dietary cholesterol is not related to coronary heart disease incidence or mortality across or within populations."
    [\quote]

    This study was from McNamara DJ.

    Source: Egg Nutrition Center, Washington, DC 20036, USA. enc@enc-online.org

    Oh, an egg promoting institution, how interesting.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023006

    "Serum cholesterol has been established as a modifiable risk factor for coronary heart disease. Experimental feeding studies show that saturated fat and cholesterol increase serum cholesterol levels; thus, dietary recommendations for lowering the risk of heart disease proscribe the intake of both substances. Recommendations have also included limits on the intake of eggs because of their high cholesterol content. In free-living populations, diet reflects a pattern of associated choices. Increases in one food may lead to changes in the consumption of other foods that may modulate disease risk. Epidemiologic data are helpful in assessing the importance of foods and nutrients in the context in which they are actually consumed. We review epidemiologic data relating dietary cholesterol and eggs to coronary disease risk. Cholesterol intake was associated with a modest increase in the risk of coronary events. The true magnitude of the association is difficult to estimate because most studies fail to account for potential confounding by other features of the diet. When a full-range of confounding factors was considered, the association between cholesterol intake and heart disease risk was small (6% increase in risk for 200mg/1,000kcal/day difference in cholesterol intake). Several studies have examined egg intake and its relationship with coronary outcomes. All but one failed to consider the role of other potentially confounding dietary factors. When dietary confounders were considered, no association was seen between egg consumption at levels up to 1 + egg per day and the risk of coronary heart disease in non-diabetic men and women."
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    Did you read that seriously? You are agreeing with me there. While there are factors that raise or cholesterol levels, eggs is still proven to be one of those factors that raise them. Thanks for agreeing with me.

    Here, I'll quote it again: Recommendations have also included limits on the intake of eggs because of their high cholesterol content.

    Going back to my first statement that eggs is not healthy, lots of things are not healthy. I even clarified it when someone said oh look, eggs kill people by saying that wasn't accurate I said, it was unhealthy. Your evidence, shows that to be the case. I never said eating eggs will kill you. So, thanks for agreeing with me.