Why do so many people think meat is essential? (NOT DEBATE)

iAMsmiling · February 2013

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It's probably no worse than eating meat, as long as you're getting the same nutrients, etc.

However, I could never become one, love meat too much.

One thing that really annoys me though, is people who call themselves vegetarians yet eat fish! - That isn't a vegetarian!

I once met a vegan who had called ahead, told the hotel he would be eating there two nights, like any decent vegan would do. When the second meal for him had been arranged on the second night, he said he would have fish. That it's okay, vegans can eat fish. If I had been there, as a vegan myself, I think I would have had to destroy him. Grrrrrrrrrrr, and I used to wonder why people always ask me a million questions when I try to go out for a meal. It's because of confusing fools like him

MsPudding · February 2013

I have to say that in my years I've only ever encountered a couple of meat-eaters who were vehemently anti-vegetarian....but I'm afraid to say that on the flipside, I've encountered quite a number of vegans (not vegetarians) who were not only entrenched but downright hostile....to the point where one vegan on a message board actually PM'd me death threats when she learnt that I'd hunted before and had no problem killing chickens to eat.

gracielynn1011 · February 2013

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Some people are uneducated on the health benefits that a vegetarian diet offers. I am a meat eater, but I try to limit it. The fat content in some meats can certainly over ride any protein benefits that it offers. My family thinks I am weird now, I could just imagine what they would think if I went vegetarian. Of course, I come from a family that thinks that it's not a real meal if there isn't some form of meat deep fried in a skillet of lard. Sometimes family dinners are disgusting.

I feel your pain there. 90% of my family members are...well...disgusting blobs of ****. I figured out pretty quickly what not to eat by paying attention to what they do eat. Really, deep fried anything is the only 'food group' that I won't touch.

Yeah, nothing says delicious and healthy like watching globs of fat floating on your food, or running down your chin. :noway:

infamousmk · February 2013

astigmatism. heh.

blpnana · February 2013

I've been reading a lot about veganism and I think the biggest concern for vegans is the lack of B12 - not protein. You can derive protein from many plant sources, nuts, beans, etc. even greens have some protein in them - that's not really the problem. However, vitamin B12 isn't found in plants from what I'm reading - it's found in meat, fish and poultry. However, there is a source of B12 that's called Nutritional Yeast that vegans incorporate into their diets and there are also vegan B12 supplements (and I specify "vegan" B12 because some of the supplements are derived from meats). But what I'm finding (and I've eaten meat, fish and poultry all my life) is that I feel better on a plant based diet. And eating plant based has helped restore digestive enzymes in the gut - at least for me it has. I've also given up a lot of processed foods. It's a struggle sometimes, more because of habit than anything else. However, the longer I lean toward plant-based, the better I feel. So that's my personal view. If you'd like to read some great material on veganism from a former Triathlete/Ironman go to Brendan Brazier's website. His book Thrive is amazing! Happy plant eating!!!

penrbrown · February 2013

Because people know that protein is good (although some people don't know this is WHY meat is good) and they don't understand that you can get protein from non-meat sources.

Not everyone is a nutritionist. Some of us just know things because our parents/grandparents taught us and we carry it on never really questioning the why but knowing that such and such is good.

2credneck208 · February 2013

I raise my own beef, and love it!! To each their own though, I don't get into other peoples business.

Ophidion · February 2013

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The answer to this question is usually based on the person conveying it. Sometimes it will be born out of concern(based on Ignorance) that you are not getting the right nutrition to remain healthy and other times it will said in a derogatory way(once again based on ignorance). Basically this idea is based upon an antiquated nutritional system that believes meat and dairy are the only ways to obtain certain dietary needs e.g. protein, calcium, iron etc. There is a abundance of evidence that not only supports the concept of an adequate non-meat diet, but also evidence that shows that not eating meat or animal products is much healthier for you if done properly. As meat consumption is seen as the norm you will encounter a lot of ignorance manifesting in displays of both concern and other times down right insulting arguments .People are usually are frightened by new concepts

here is an example of some data collected.

The China Study (2005) is a book by T. Colin Campbell, Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University, and his son Thomas M. Campbell II, a physician. It examines the relationship between the consumption of animal products and a variety of chronic illnesses, such as coronary heart disease, diabetes, and cancers of the breast, prostate and bowel.[2] The book had sold 750,000 copies as of January 2013.[3] It is one of America's best-selling books about nutrition.[4]

The China Study of the title is taken from the China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study that began in 1983 and was conducted jointly by the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, Cornell University, and the University of Oxford.[5] T. Colin Campbell was one of the directors of the project, described by The New York Times in 1990 as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology".[6]

The study examined mortality rates from 48 forms of cancer and other chronic diseases from 1973 to 75 in 65 counties in China, and correlated them with 1983–84 dietary surveys and blood-work from 6,500 people, 100 from each county. It concluded that counties with a high consumption of animal-based foods in 1983–84 were more likely to have had higher death rates from "Western" diseases as of 1973–75, while the opposite was true for counties that ate more plant foods in 1983–84. The study was conducted in those counties because they had genetically similar populations that tended, over generations, to live in the same way in the same place, and eat diets specific to those regions.[7]

The authors conclude that people who eat a plant-based/vegan diet—avoiding animal products such as beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, and milk, and reducing their intake of processed foods and refined carbohydrates—will escape, reduce or reverse the development of chronic diseases. They also recommend adequate amounts of sunshine to maintain sufficient levels of vitamin D, and supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products. etc,etc

Good luck making your own mind up,its your life to live so don't let anyone tell you how to live it. enjoy

The China Study has been thoroughly debated on mfp on other treads. My understanding is that while it's a very large study, it's also extremely flawed.

The China Study was just an example. As with most study's they are easy to critique and find flaws.Especially if you have opposing beliefs to the outcome of said study (Not I'm suggesting that you do) I do agree that a study of that magnitude will have its faults especially when its an observational study as opposed to a study done in an controlled environment, which is obviously impossible considering the amount of time, people etc. But then the same logic for these flaws can be applied to any other study of this magnitude. Anyway it was only meant as an example......... p.s sorry for the double post.

First let me say, I have no dog in this fight. People should do what they feels is best as long as they get adequate nutrition. But, it is just not accurate to say The China Study is just a flawed oberservational study like most. It has been completely debunked and has been severely criticized by the scientific community for it's omissions and manipulation of the data. While some fault can be found with all studies, The China Study is not even close to the realm of "some fault". For one to cite it as reference lacks all credibility.

I just wanted to say that I was just trying to be helpful and offer some friendly advice, and show an example of research about nutrition. Why I referenced the China Study is because I have found it to be helpful. I do not claim or ever have claimed to be an epidemiologist, scientist, dietitian or any other professional. When I said flaws and faults could be found with other studies I meant nutritional studies of the same magnitude and timescale.
As for lacking all credibility I think that may be a bit strong since the essence of my advice was to live her life as she see's fit and not to be dictated to by others (including me.) I am open to new advice and information if you could provide reference's to the China Study being completely debunked I would appreciate it (already aware of Denise Minger's critique, and have read Colin Campbell response.) Anyway don't want to start a huge debate about this study as it seems to be quite controversial.Thanks for reading my post. p.s Kudos to everyone on mfp for caring about they're health.

beatleschic87 · February 2013

protein is essential, meat is not.

Exactly!

I was vegetarian for 2 years and vegan for 1. It was very hard, not for the the "don't eat meat" aspect but just making sure I was getting all the nutrients. Protein isn't the only thing being cut out when you take away meat. With red meat especially, you cut out iron and B12. So as long as you are eating a lot of iron heavy/B12 heavy vitamins and greens (like spinach) you should be okay.

Also get your protein from tofu, lentils, nuts, cheese etc. Just also be careful of your cholesterol and fat intake. I also would meet with a nutritionist beforehand to help you get started. It will shock your body if you just all of a sudden remove a staple from your diet.

The meat we have in the US is very processed and dirty but it's easy to get and cheap. Ever wonder why a cheeseburger costs less than a salad? Mass production, hormones etc. The only meat I eat if lean meats and fish. The chicken is always free range and hormone free and the fish is never farm raised. It is more expensive but tastes better and makes me feel a lot better too.

Hope this helps!

:drinker:

beatleschic87 · February 2013

Aaaand I love this. Scott Pilgrim!!

butterfli7o · February 2013

I have to say that in my years I've only ever encountered a couple of meat-eaters who were vehemently anti-vegetarian....but I'm afraid to say that on the flipside, I've encountered quite a number of vegans (not vegetarians) who were not only entrenched but downright hostile....

Have to agree with this. I personally think to each their own...but I've definitely seen my share of vegans who not only have to announce that they're vegan, but are completely disgusted by those who eat meat and have no problem saying so.

iAMsmiling · February 2013

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I have to say that in my years I've only ever encountered a couple of meat-eaters who were vehemently anti-vegetarian....but I'm afraid to say that on the flipside, I've encountered quite a number of vegans (not vegetarians) who were not only entrenched but downright hostile....

Have to agree with this. I personally think to each their own...but I've definitely seen my share of vegans who not only have to announce that they're vegan, but are completely disgusted by those who eat meat and have no problem saying so.

In my first week here, a vegan drew a moral equivalent between meat eaters and Hitler and slave owners.
Doesn't exactly prime you for unemotional, non-judgmental discourse.

Timshel_ · February 2013

Hiya,

I get a lot from friends, and no so close friends, that I should eat meat and a strict vegetarian diet is unhealthy, and meat is essential in a healthy diet blah blah.

Why is this such a common astigmatism? What are your thoughts (WITHOUT BEING RUDE OR DEBATING) on a no-meat lifestyle? If you are vegetarian/vegan, do you find yourself to be healthy?

Without ebing rude or debating? So you are just looking for people to agree with you.

Got it.

butterfli7o · February 2013

Also OP...I don't think you meant 'astigmatism.' :laugh:

Jerrypeoples · February 2013

Also OP...I don't think you meant 'astigmatism.' :laugh:

karmahunger · February 2013

Assume no one read my post, my phone auto corrected from stigma v.vv

carrieous · February 2013

i crave meat after heaving lifting sessions. No amount of protein-containing veggies is going to satisfy that craving. I listen to my body and give it what it asks for

Lessthanpenguins · February 2013

I eat meat cause it tastes good. I have relatives who are vegitarian not by choice and they are perfectly healthy so I know it can be done. Plus, I enjoy the satisfaction of going out, killing a deer, and eating it more than I do from eating produce I get from my garden.

IrishChik · February 2013

People eat meat because the "caveman" told them too.

The reality is people eat what they eat based on how the interpret data , their beliefs, and their opinions.

Timshel_ · February 2013

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Hiya,

I get a lot from friends, and no so close friends, that I should eat meat and a strict vegetarian diet is unhealthy, and meat is essential in a healthy diet blah blah.

Why is this such a common astigmatism? What are your thoughts (WITHOUT BEING RUDE OR DEBATING) on a no-meat lifestyle? If you are vegetarian/vegan, do you find yourself to be healthy?

Without being rude or debating? So you are just looking for people to agree with you.
Got it.

Just reading through. I was wrong. It is really a meat-eater bashing thread. Makes more sense given your agenda.

That said, I don't eat as much meat as I used to and do eat some veggie and fruit only meals. I like meat and enjoy the nutritional benefits of it.

Personal chioce.
It is as simple as that.

karmahunger · February 2013

CAN PEOPLE ON MY FITNESS PAL NOT JUST HAVING ****ING CONVERSATION WITHOUT ARGUING? THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY NO DEBATE.

Jesus. Sorry for the caps lock, but seriously. I don't want people to agree with me. Stop thinking I am trying to do that. I was just interested in peoples views on the matter. \But of course there are always those whiny, wanna-be psychologists who have to cross-examine everything.

Timshel_ · February 2013

CAN PEOPLE ON MY FITNESS PAL NOT JUST HAVING ****ING CONVERSATION WITHOUT ARGUING? THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY NO DEBATE.

Jesus. Sorry for the caps lock, but seriously. I don't want people to agree with me. Stop thinking I am trying to do that. I was just interested in peoples views on the matter. \But of course there are always those whiny, wanna-be psychologists who have to cross-examine everything.

You deintely don't like to be questioned.

wmoomoo · February 2013

CAN PEOPLE ON MY FITNESS PAL NOT JUST HAVING ****ING CONVERSATION WITHOUT ARGUING? THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY NO DEBATE.

Jesus. Sorry for the caps lock, but seriously. I don't want people to agree with me. Stop thinking I am trying to do that. I was just interested in peoples views on the matter. \But of course there are always those whiny, wanna-be psychologists who have to cross-examine everything.

A good conversation is when you have a view on both side and there are interaction between the two. At least to me when I hear both side, I learn more. O no... I sound like a wanna-be psychologists who have to cross examine everything.

. Screw it, all of you are right. Meat is/is not essential.

MizTerry · February 2013

I knew a battle would rage. (shaking head)

StephenHebs · February 2013

astigmatism

2fat2bthin · February 2013

Well I am a peskitarian, and I find that when I go vegetarian I just don't manage to get enough protein. The reason there is a common opinion that it is unhealthy is because a lot of people tend to not get enough protein, iron, and a few other things. Vegetarian can be healthy, but vegan is usually pretty bad for you simply because you don't get enough of the needed nutrition