The Protein Myth
redraidergirl2009
Posts: 2,560 Member
I have to rattle a cage. It seems to be "common knowledge" on mfp that everyone needs loads of protein to A. Lose fat, and B. Increase strength and that it's imperative that normal people have a protein shake after each strength work out. I'm not talking about heavy lifting, I'm talking about your basic run of the mill strength workouts so if you want to lecture about heavy lifting and protein move along as that is not what I'm talking about. So I'm wondering why that is and why everyone says mfp's settings for protein are "too low" for most people. When someone asks about protein, someone had to come in and say their setting is "too low" because it's what mfp set for them. Why would mfp set it too low really? If it was too low wouldn't they have corrected it? Wouldn't there be a huge disclaimer about it being "too low"? Is it impossible for someone to lose fat and get stronger with 50g -70g of protein? To most mfp "experts" yes, how did this rumor come about that mfp settings are too low and that people need 100g of protein to lose fat?
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Protein helps with satiation and muscle building. The only thing that helps lose fat and increase strength is a calorie deficit and weight training.
That being said, it appears to be scientific consensus that the recommended amount of protein is too low for anyone that has an active lifestyle.0 -
I have to rattle a cage. It seems to be "common knowledge" on mfp that everyone needs loads of protein to A. Lose fat, and B. Increase strength and that it's imperative that normal people have a protein shake after each strength work out. I'm not talking about heavy lifting, I'm talking about your basic run of the mill strength workouts so if you want to lecture about heavy lifting and protein move along as that is not what I'm talking about. So I'm wondering why that is and why everyone says mfp's settings for protein are "too low" for most people. When someone asks about protein, someone had to come in and say their setting is "too low" because it's what mfp set for them. Why would mfp set it too low really? If it was too low wouldn't they have corrected it? Wouldn't there be a huge disclaimer about it being "too low"? Is it impossible for someone to lose fat and get stronger with 50g -70g of protein? To most mfp "experts" yes, how did this rumor come about that mfp settings are too low and that people need 100g of protein to lose fat?
a lot of people tout the .7-1g of protein per pound of lean body mass, but I'm actually not even sure where that originated from.
I personally feel that since people feel the need to constrict carbs to such a huge degree to lose weight, they offset that by raising their protein intake so they can feel like they aren't starving themselves. even if the excess protein doesn't get used, it still helps them feel full.0 -
I agree. I don't see a lot of information out there declaring it as a necessity BUT I do know when I let it drop too low, I tend to get super hungry when working out. I seem to hold better if I increase my protein levels. That's the main reason I eat a large amount of protein. Carbs in high doses are not an option for me due to a wheat allergy and I still feel hungry if that's where my focus ends up occurring.0
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a lot of people tout the .7-1g of protein per pound of lean body mass, but I'm actually not even sure where that originated from.
I personally feel that since people feel the need to constrict carbs to such a huge degree to lose weight, they offset that by raising their protein intake so they can feel like they aren't starving themselves. even if the excess protein doesn't get used, it still helps them feel full.
It originated from science:
http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7
Anyway, if you don't eat enough protein your muscles will grow more slowly/break down more quickly. That's all there is to it.0 -
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Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.0
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Same thing goes with calories on MFP. It had me originally set to 1200. I was starving, cranky, and tired. Decided to up my calories and have never looked back. There was no huge disclaimer about it being "too low." It also had my fiber set too low. Just because MFP gives you a certain amount doesn't mean it's correct.
*I know your question was about protein but I was just trying to give a comparison.0 -
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a lot of people tout the .7-1g of protein per pound of lean body mass, but I'm actually not even sure where that originated from.
I personally feel that since people feel the need to constrict carbs to such a huge degree to lose weight, they offset that by raising their protein intake so they can feel like they aren't starving themselves. even if the excess protein doesn't get used, it still helps them feel full.
It originated from science:
http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7
Anyway, if you don't eat enough protein your muscles will grow more slowly/break down more quickly. That's all there is to it.
I talked with a very good dietician and .7-1 gm/kg of weight is what is generally recommended for a person that is active and healthy.0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.0 -
The MFP protein allowances seem to be based on the average person's requirements to maintain the status quo, bearing in mind that the 'average' person is pretty sedentary.
Add in regular exercise, especially strength training which is hard on the muscles, then more protein is required to repair muscles. For anyone looking to increase muscle mass then even more is required.0 -
you guys are getting into a debate that has been forever a hot topic in fitness and bodybuilding circles...the bottom line for me is personally...what combo gets me the results I'm seeking in life overall.
If you haven't tested it in the trenches of living through the strategy for a period of time, how would you know if it works or which is better?
Even if there is a more optimal way, you have to select the way that can be implemented into your life and get you the results you seek...so the questions are, what are you trying to accomplish and what is the proper balance in life for you...You may respect someone who is top of the foodchain in accomplishing a certain goal, though pity them for the price they had to pay to get there...
things to think about..that's what its a very individual and personal lifestyle..every person has different needs and goals..and we are always exploring in life..that's what makes it fun0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?
Backed by... what industries? Who do you think funded the Lemon paper?
And if it's all big government/industry, why does the government set the RDA of protein so low?
No, there's no "big protein" out there forcing the government to fund studies that show protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
You seem to have an MO of tossing out vague nonsense in an attempt to discredit things you don't like or don't agree with. Your criticism here is nonsensical and just designed to instill fear.
If you want to give a valid criticism, do so. Tell us who funded each of these studies and how they have a serious vested interest in getting us all to eat more protein.0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?
why is everything some grand conspiracy with you?0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?
why is everything some grand conspiracy with you?
Because it's so much easier to dismiss all information you don't like as a government/industry conspiracy than to actually change your mind or offer valid criticism.0 -
Edit: nvm0
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I don't think anyone's claiming that.Is it impossible for someone to lose fat and get stronger with 50g -70g of protein?
However, I'd prefer any workout I do to have the best chance of leaving me stronger at the end of it
The studies I've read generally seem to conclude that more protein will give my body the best chance of being stroner, or at least keeping the strength I have.
Coachreddy; that's the great thing about such studies. We can analyse and read them ourselves, and draw our own conclusion from the data they have got if need be.0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
To this... My Doctor (Bariatric Surgeon- Dr. Garth Davis) has said that protein is overrated and believes that we need much lower amounts of protein then believed even for bariatric patients. He told me to stop worrying about it as I prefer fruits and veggies most of the time. He believes that animal protein can be harmful and referred me to the healthiest regions in the world who eat 80% of their diet in carb. He referred me to the BLUE ZONE study. Very interesting stuff.0 -
Just replying to thank you for making a thread that CoachReddy replied in so I can block him without having to search
Oh, and to allow me to mock you freely on my wall without getting a strike :drinker: :drinker:0 -
There is a difference between minimum protein requirements and optimal protein intake.0
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here's why I have protein shakes after workouts:
1. because protein is good for muscles
2. protein fills me for longer
3. I get hungry and it serves as a great snack
4. I add in lots of other healthy things that provide nutritious calories for my diet0 -
Why would mfp set it too low really?
It sets protein at the RDA recommendation which presumes a maintenance level of calories for people not engaged in high intensity training specifically weight training.
Protein requirements rise when in a calorie deficit and / or engaged in rigorous training.
Having said that the "zomg you must consume a protein shake within 30 minutes of a workout or your muscles will fall off" line in daft....0 -
For me, it is simple.
I like protein. I feel better when I eat 100 grams of protein a day. That's slightly over 1g/LBM, but not much over. It's easy to eat that much protein, and I have gotten hella stronger eating this way over the past few months.
I also like fat. I feel better when I eat around 50-60g/day.
I also like carbs. I have no idea how many carbs I eat in a day because I don't track it. I guess that depends on how many calories I consume. I'm guessing it's a lot when I eat 2400 calories.
Science? In a way. Hypothesis ==> trial. Trial ==> feel better. Feel better ==> better performance.
I was my own test subject. If anyone would like to see the results of the study, my diary and photo album is open.0 -
Yep.Edit: nvm0 -
Why would mfp set it too low really?
It sets protein at the RDA recommendation which presumes a maintenance level of calories for people not engaged in high intensity training specifically weight training.
Protein requirements rise when in a calorie deficit and / or engaged in rigorous training.
Having said that the "zomg you must consume a protein shake within 30 minutes of a workout or your muscles will fall off" line in daft....
Bingo. Well said.0 -
MFP set my protein goal at 46g a day, which for me personally was way too low. I usually get 100-150g a day, or at the lowest like 80g.
When you lose weight quickly, your body can often get rid of muscle just as much as it does fat. Then you end up looking flabby. Eating a lot of protein supposedly helps your body hold on to more muscle than it would otherwise. That's just what I've heard though, and I'm too lazy to do research right now :P
If you're feeling fine eating lower amounts, I don't see why you can't. I do think what MFP sets you at is the bare minimum you need, so it definitely wouldn't hurt to increase it some. Especially if you're doing ANY kind of strength training, not just heavy lifting. Your muscles will thank you.
Also, I personally feel like I look a hell of a lot leaner when I eat a mostly-protein diet. That could be different for everyone though.0 -
OP: nobody is making claims that suboptimal protein intakes mean zero progress. That's a bit of a strawman.
Regarding the recommendation for higher intake, johnnythan covered it---on my phone so I can't click the study but hopefully it's the schoenfeld/Aragon meta. If not I'll link it later.
The RDA rec for protein is based on old data using nitrogen balance. Nitrogen balance is a poor indicator of lbm status due to NB measuring whole body nitrogen. It's not tissue specific.
There's research showing significant benefit specifically comparing the RDA to 2xRDA and 3xRDA and the higher protein intake is superior.
Phone posting so I'm being short.0 -
Weight loss comes from a Net calorie deficit.
You will lose muscle as well as fat.
Lifting heavy and eating higher than normal levels of protein will help offset the muscle loss, so your weight loss is mostly fat. This also has the benefit of you maintaining a higher metabolism as you lose weight so you don't end up having to drastically reduce your calories to continue losing weight.
This is why a higher % of protein is recommended by those in the know.0 -
My doctor recommended I up my protein. It keeps me full longer. He's the one that recommended protein shakes to me. And, regardless of whether or not it's the 'proper' way or the most healthiest....it's working for me. If I don't have some source of protein with every meal, whether meat, dairy or vegetable based, I get cranky and feel like binge eating. So, to each their own. It works for me.0
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