Why is obesity considered deviant behavior?
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Irony - we have a utopian system of food sources unlike any prior society. No wonder we eat so well...maybe it's a response to past livingstyles in one had to be self sufficient and food sources were not taken for granted. Eat when food was available and starve without. So is it deviant ? I don't think so, as we have finally acheived what organized human beings have always wanted.
Unless one is in poverty and there are no charities, food is in abundance to all. The issue now being, how to select wisely from that pile of abundance0 -
I honestly think food is not the root of the problem. Our society has gotten lazy and sedentary with easy access to everything. Our grandparents ate tons of lard and butter but had to work much harder and walk more places to live their day to day lives.0
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OP, you might not have come to the right place when you started such a thread on a calorie-counting website.
With that said, I do agree with you - to a certain degree.
For all the "you can do it yourself" and "lack of self control", I still see alot of "fatty-shaming" going on that people should really think twice about.
After all anorexia and bulimia are food disorders. You cannot make fun of anoxerics or bulimics lest you be declared a social pariah. Its alright to make fun of fat people though - just look up any comments section on that news about the first airline to charge by the kilo. People choose not to acknowledge that obesity may have roots far beyond the physical such as depression, anxiety disorders and the such. Mocked as these reasons may be, they also include hormonal imbalances, which are very real.
I'm not saying that you should delegate your responsibilities to the government - your aim to feel happy, "healthy" and the such. But --
It would be nice to get appropriate support when you want help - not backhanded comments that often do more damage than good.0 -
Okay. After actually reading the OP, I have a big issue with this entire thread.
Back the eff up. OP, did you REALLY just compare obesity to alcoholism?
I...I just...
...I'm done here.0 -
Fast Food places have been adding healthier choices to their menu for years now, at the end of the day its about choices.0
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Why is obesity considered deviant behavior when we throw gobs of money at research for cures of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer, etc. but almost none towards obesity? Obesity is an epidemic that will only get worse if we treat it with ridicule and disgust. It isn't a character flaw of someone that causes them to be obese. Obesity isn't deviance but a disease (like alcoholism) of sorts and if treated properly can be cured. By properly I mean addressing physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional needs of the obese person. McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King among others contribute mightily to the obesity problem.
As a society we also have to demand healthier products from the Food Industry and call the Food Industry on their so-called research to prove additives such as MSG and HFCS are safe. By making demands, I don't mean passing laws but refusing to eat at establishments that use trans fats, too much sugar, HFCS, and MSG. Hit the Food Industry where it counts - in the wallet. Americans need to take a more active role in their health and know that a pill will not cure everything.
The cure is already known, stop shoving food in your mouth and eat less, maybe move a little more as well.
And please stop with the tinfoil hat stuff with HFCS and MSG, metabolically speaking, how is HFCS different from sucrose and how is MSG different than glutamate?
I agree with this!!
The cure is to put the fork down every once in a while and go for a walk or get tot the gym.0 -
Your lack of knowledge about the societal problems behind obesity is astounding. Look up Food Access and Low-Income Neighborhoods in a reputable public health journal. It's great that you've found your way out of eating crap, but your pathway was easier than it is for some: You have easy access to a grocery store that has many healthy items to choose from, you are the head of your household and therefore the "gatekeeper" for what food is brought in the house, you have the time and money to get to a gym frequently etc. I'm not saying people with financial difficulty CAN'T get healthy, but it's more difficult for more than one reason.
Your lack of knowledge about personal responsibility is astounding. I actually live in a n extremely poor area, and shop at the local grocery store. Surprise surprise, there are healthy options there. People are, by and large, not force feed. All adults are the gate keepers to their own body. Every bite of food they eat is a choice to eat that bite of food. Maybe it is more difficult for some. Tough crap. Whoever said that life is easy lied. It is also less difficult for some who still choose to be obese. Relative difficulty level does not equate impossibility. If they don't want to be obese, make the more difficult choice. Funny how you assume that just because I am in pretty good shape, it is somehow less difficult. My pathway was also more difficult than it would be for some as well. I made the difficult choice. Period. if someone doesn't want to be obese, they can make the difficult choice as well.0 -
Yes, for most people it's a choice. They don't choose to be obese, they chose not to do something about it. And please note I said "most people" before you tell me about all the medical reasons someone might be obese.So basically obese people are choosing to engage in activities which quite literally could and will lead to their deaths?
Given that the overriding biological imperative is survival that theory seems distinctly like utter rubbish to me...
:flowerforyou:0 -
The difference there, is that cigarette smoke does make me cough; makes my eyes, throat, nose burn, my lungs seize.......I'd love it if everyone who coughs and shoots me dirty looks when I (like Brett) light up, would also make disgusted faces when obese people walk out of McDonalds, then we will make some positive progress in changing our culture from one of welcoming acceptance toward Obesity to fighting it for the scourge it really is.
Someone's eating too many French fries has no physical affect on me.
But I don't make disgusted faces and only coughed on purpose when people would light up next to my babies. They should just know not to make smokey air around babies.
And to keep " on topic ", I think the government puts too much money into telling us what to do ( whether how to eat or any other rule they make for our personal choices.) and though kids may not have the proper info, adults can learn and make their own choices and are without good excuse in most cases.0 -
obesity = alcoholism?
nope.0 -
Economic influences contribute to obesity (low income areas have less access to fresh fruits and vegetables) and education hasn't been there for some people.
Depression, abuse, etc.. also lead to obesity. Substituting food for affection, feeding depression, etc.
It's easy to attack those you don't understand. You don't ridicule alcoholics or drug addicts for their choices, why is it so easy to do that to food addicts?
You would think that people on a website geared towards health and weight loss would be a bit more compassionate. I haven't seen that to be the case yet.
I like when obesity soared during the Great Depression and is rampant in Haiti or maybe the low income argument is garbage0 -
Thank you for expanding on my thought so eloquently. Society's ridicule, shame, disgust and demonization of smoking helped me to quit. If it worked for me, I know it must influence/persuade other smokers too. I'm not a special little snowflake.*lights up*
Orly? Tell me all of your disgusting habits. Let me shame you for them, then you can tell me how that makes you feel.
Shaming someone into losing weight will do nothing but destroy whatever little self esteem they have left.
Also, you're a peach if you truly believe that ridiculing and shaming someone into doing what *you* want them to do is the right way to go about life.
The high school mean girls club called. They want their tactics back.
Srs. The change in attitude toward smoking in the US *did* impact the number of smokers. If obese people weren't allowed to eat fast food inside, that would begin to gradually change the number of obese people.
Whether it's good or bad is debatable but the fact is that the demonization of smoking and smokers has had a HUGE impact on the number of smokers - it's taxed out the *kitten*, it's barred indoors, and all because it's grown to be considered "societally unacceptable".
I think it's completely reasonable that the obese be treated the same way. Overtaxed, marginalized, excluded, and treated as something less than a person - rude comments made freely toward them because our society just doesn't stand for it anymore.
It works.
Guess what DontStopB, my self-esteem improved a great deal after I stopped smoking. Overcoming an addiction (whether it's cigarettes or food) gives you a tremendous sense of accomplishment and power. I'm sure the same would apply to obese people after they lose weight and stop being obese!0 -
I find this interesting.Obesity is an epidemic that will only get worse if we treat it with ridicule and disgust. It isn't a character flaw of someone that causes them to be obese. Obesity isn't deviance but a disease (like alcoholism) of sorts and if treated properly can be cured.
Alcoholism is a character flaw. Obesity itself is a descriptor, but the set of behaviors that lead to obesity are also a character flaw.
You know it's a flaw because obese people are killing themselves.
I think I feel you though, OP, and I get where you're coming from. While the thermodynamic solution to eradicating obesity is very simple (eat less/move more), the "culture of obesity" in the US in particular needs to be addressed.
I don't think Government intervention is necessarily the right idea, but I'd love it if everyone who coughs and shoots me dirty looks when I (like Brett) light up, would also make disgusted faces when obese people walk out of McDonalds, then we will make some positive progress in changing our culture from one of welcoming acceptance toward Obesity to fighting it for the scourge it really is.
I think that's a modest proposal.
Alcoholism is a character flaw? WHAT? Where did you get this piece of information?
You are dribbling this nonsense and you actually have the nerve to talk down to others? WOW.0 -
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1. Treating smokers with ridicule and disgust has helped to reduce the number of smokers. Same should apply to obesity. Don't underestimate the power of societal pressure.
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This isn't the Dark Ages. Using social pressure that way is just cruel. Plus, it supports the idea that people 'deserve' a lower standard of treatment, which is a slippery slope into oppression.0 -
Why is obesity considered deviant behavior when we throw gobs of money at research for cures of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer, etc. but almost none towards obesity? Obesity is an epidemic that will only get worse if we treat it with ridicule and disgust. It isn't a character flaw of someone that causes them to be obese. Obesity isn't deviance but a disease (like alcoholism) of sorts and if treated properly can be cured. By properly I mean addressing physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional needs of the obese person. McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King among others contribute mightily to the obesity problem.
As a society we also have to demand healthier products from the Food Industry and call the Food Industry on their so-called research to prove additives such as MSG and HFCS are safe. By making demands, I don't mean passing laws but refusing to eat at establishments that use trans fats, too much sugar, HFCS, and MSG. Hit the Food Industry where it counts - in the wallet. Americans need to take a more active role in their health and know that a pill will not cure everything.
The cure is already known, stop shoving food in your mouth and eat less, maybe move a little more as well.
And please stop with the tinfoil hat stuff with HFCS and MSG, metabolically speaking, how is HFCS different from sucrose and how is MSG different than glutamate?
QFT0 -
Thank you for expanding on my thought so eloquently. Society's ridicule, shame, disgust and demonization of smoking helped me to quit. If it worked for me, I know it must influence/persuade other smokers too. I'm not a special little snowflake.*lights up*
Orly? Tell me all of your disgusting habits. Let me shame you for them, then you can tell me how that makes you feel.
Shaming someone into losing weight will do nothing but destroy whatever little self esteem they have left.
Also, you're a peach if you truly believe that ridiculing and shaming someone into doing what *you* want them to do is the right way to go about life.
The high school mean girls club called. They want their tactics back.
Srs. The change in attitude toward smoking in the US *did* impact the number of smokers. If obese people weren't allowed to eat fast food inside, that would begin to gradually change the number of obese people.
Whether it's good or bad is debatable but the fact is that the demonization of smoking and smokers has had a HUGE impact on the number of smokers - it's taxed out the *kitten*, it's barred indoors, and all because it's grown to be considered "societally unacceptable".
I think it's completely reasonable that the obese be treated the same way. Overtaxed, marginalized, excluded, and treated as something less than a person - rude comments made freely toward them because our society just doesn't stand for it anymore.
It works.
Guess what DontStopB, my self-esteem improved a great deal after I stopped smoking. Overcoming an addiction (whether it's cigarettes or food) gives you a tremendous sense of accomplishment and power. I'm sure the same would apply to obese people after they lose weight and stop being obese!
What didn't improve was your ability to detect sarcasm.0 -
I don't know why people keep saying veggies are so expensive. They aren't THAT bad. Sheesh. You can buy giant bags of frozen veggies for dirt cheap. You can also find farmers markets and get them there at a lower cost. The real problem is that we've moved away as a society from cooking at home to doing everything so it's easier for us all. It's simpler to just buy food and something precooked is easier. Veggies are available and can be purchased for decent prices. You have to choose what you buy - skip the bag of horrible deep fried chips and buy bananas or bell peppers...it's all choice. The pricing isn't that horrendous. I've seen grocery carts full of sodas and artificial stuff - they could choose to eat right - they choose to not do so. We are here because we've chosen to change our lives and eat the right way. Personally, I don't think we're wasting as much food now that I'm constantly cooking and actually preparing real stuff. We freeze anything that might go bad and waste less. It's all a process.
Monica
I agree. I spend far less money now that I am controlling what I eat. I don't buy whiskey, wine, beer, French cheeses, huge slabs of cheese of any sort, packs of butter, cookies, desserts, pastry, sausages or bacon any more. I'm sure there are more things I could think of. Vegetables and fruit are much cheaper than all of those. I think the obesity problem in the US is cultural. I live in Portugal. People here eat a lot, they sit down twice a day in big happy groups to eat three courses but no junk or takeaways - veg soups, grilled meat and fish and loads of fruit is the normal diet.0 -
The cure for obesity is for people to take responsibility for themselves.
Nobody is going to do it for them.
Personally, I don't think there is ENOUGH social pressure here in the states. It's normal to be fat and if you aren't, people will shove food at you until you are.
If you want a good example of how good social pressure works, look at Japan. Their obesity rate is almost zero, and if you do happen to be overweight, people will not mince words about it.0 -
i think it's called SELF CONTROL not to eat fast food everyday....and the parents of parents of parents etc. who don't teach kids discipline and buy fast food for their kids because they are too lazy to cook healthy. very simple. it's not a disease like alchoholism in MY OPINION. neither being an alchoholic...people choose to drink themselves to death just like obese people eat themselves to death.0
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Yes, for most people it's a choice. They don't choose to be obese, they chose not to do something about it. And please note I said "most people" before you tell me about all the medical reasons someone might be obese.So basically obese people are choosing to engage in activities which quite literally could and will lead to their deaths?
Given that the overriding biological imperative is survival that theory seems distinctly like utter rubbish to me...
I think the notion that people consciously choose to eat themselves to the point of severe illness or even death is ludicrous.
in my view something else more compelling is going on under the surface...0 -
Yes, for most people it's a choice. They don't choose to be obese, they chose not to do something about it. And please note I said "most people" before you tell me about all the medical reasons someone might be obese.So basically obese people are choosing to engage in activities which quite literally could and will lead to their deaths?
Given that the overriding biological imperative is survival that theory seems distinctly like utter rubbish to me...
I think the notion that people consciously choose to eat themselves to the point of severe illness or even death is ludicrous.
in my view something else more compelling is going on under the surface...
I agree, it is ludicrous, but it is also the truth, which is disgusting and sad.0 -
*lights up*
Orly? Tell me all of your disgusting habits. Let me shame you for them, then you can tell me how that makes you feel.
Shaming someone into losing weight will do nothing but destroy whatever little self esteem they have left.
Also, you're a peach if you truly believe that ridiculing and shaming someone into doing what *you* want them to do is the right way to go about life.
The high school mean girls club called. They want their tactics back.
Srs. The change in attitude toward smoking in the US *did* impact the number of smokers. If obese people weren't allowed to eat fast food inside, that would begin to gradually change the number of obese people.
Whether it's good or bad is debatable but the fact is that the demonization of smoking and smokers has had a HUGE impact on the number of smokers - it's taxed out the *kitten*, it's barred indoors, and all because it's grown to be considered "societally unacceptable".
I think it's completely reasonable that the obese be treated the same way. Overtaxed, marginalized, excluded, and treated as something less than a person - rude comments made freely toward them because our society just doesn't stand for it anymore.
It works.
Precisely.
And once we're done with that we can decide what other behaviors we don't like as a society and start to weed those out as well. Gum chewing can be annoying. So any time you walk past someone chewing gum feel free to make rude comments towards them. You're being helpful after all.
They came for the smokers and I said nothing, because I don't smoke
Then they came for the fatties and I said nothing, because I'm not fat
Then I realized with all the smokers and fat people gone life was a hell of a lot less fun.
I second the motion to ridicule gum chewers. All that smacking and popping....
:smokin:0 -
Funny, while I am far from poor I actually spend less on food now that I am eating healthy. Amazing how much cheaper it is to pack my healthy lunch that run to grab fast food every day.
And also, I don't buy into "emotional eating" as being a cause. CHOOSING to emotionally eat it a cause. Yeah, I get the people get sad, lonely, depressed, whatever and turn to food for comfort. I am a single dad, and when my kids go visit their mom I tend to get sad, lonely, and a little depressed. But that doesn't mean you have to channel that into food. Yes, it is an easy quick fix so to speak. But so is going to the gym. Channel those feelings into moving weight around. Hell, channel them into just simply moving YOURSELF around.
This. I spend less on food now that I focus on making my own food.
I feel better and emtionally capable of handling life because I work out and release endorphines and have confidence in what my body can do.
Obesity has been made "ok" by society. And it isn't ok, it is a sign (usually) of laziness and not taking care of your health. I know. I'm considered obese. I am surrounded by office workers who do what I do every day: sit at their computers and eat then go home and sit some more on their computers or in front of their TVs and eat.
But I'm making the "extra effort" (used to be called life, BTW, up until the late 70s) to cook and move my chubby *kitten*.
And to those who look to the government to fix it: serious? Be accountable for your actions. That fork isn't making you fat anymore than a lone gun will kill you on it's own. BE ACCOUNTABLE.0 -
You just compared obesity to ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer. :laugh:
Where do I begin? :indifferent:0 -
Look. It's not easy to eat well all the time. Be thankful you live in a time (and assumably a country) where you can get enough food.
If it was easy to stay at a healthy body weight, everyone would do it.
It's a huge problem and as someone who WAS very overweight, I can say, no one can do it for you. You alone control your mouth and what goes in it. The sooner you own that, the better for you. It IS about food. Your food in your life.0 -
Funny, in all my years, I've never witness a fast food server or grocery store employee force feed anyone anything. The minute that happens, I'm right there with you OP. Promise.
I do agree with you on one thing OP. People need to take responsbility for their own health-food, exercise, physical checkups, etc.
I, for one, am so sick of the "vicitm" mentality that seems so pervasive in our society, always wanting someone else to do something and fix our problems.0 -
I take issue with the original post for a few reasons - one, where are these 'gobs of money' that are being used to fund research for ADHD and bipolar disorder? The only money I see in that equation is the money coming out of consumers pockets for drugs that have already been created, and into pharmaceutical companies hands, but that's a different thread all together. People who are bipolar or have ADD/ADHD more than likely didn't do something to contribute to their condition. As many people here have stated, for the majority of overweight individuals, their condition is of their own making, and even if somehow it weren't, they still perpetuate it daily by not engaging in behavior that could change their condition. For example, my mom was molested as a child, so when she had me, she became very depressed, and did something I came to find out later in life was very common for victims of molestation who have children - she grossly overfed me. Apparently (subconsciously) female victims, and perhaps males as well, over feed their children because somewhere in their minds it makes them feel like this will make their child less attractive to a predator. It's an odd thing, I know, but there is actually some psychology behind it. So, basically, I didn't have a lot of choice in getting fat. That being said, a point came when I was an adult when I realized I can't use my mom as an excuse for my weight. So I stopped, and got my **** together, because I did have a choice in staying fat. See how that works? Even in a scenario where I was actually made overweight by someone else, at a point, that was no longer an excuse. As adults their is no excuse to be overweight, period, and if we are, it is because we choose to be. Someone who is bipolar or has ADD/ADHD cannot all of a sudden 'choose' to not have those conditions any more. They can decide to treat them, but they cannot rid themselves of them. I CHOSE to lose weight. There is a difference there, so if we're going to compare things, let's compare like things - apples to apples, not apples to tofu. ...now, to be fair, no one said it was an easy choice, but it is a choice.0
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Why do people keep trying to blame fast food? McDonald's and Burger King have been around since the 1950s, and Wendy's has been around since the 1960s. People weren't obese back then. It's not the food choices that are the problem, it's the fact that people are much less active, and don't take any responsibility for themselves.0
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Obesity is crucial for the economy. Fast food nation's profits, pharmaceutical company profits all come in a significant part from obese people and more joining their ranks.
Fast food nation and pharmaceutical companies are the people who finance campaigns for presidents and governments.
As simple education program, teaching how to cook with fresh ingredients and making physical activity fun is all it takes. When you have a society that thrives on convenience, it's no surprise that food too becomes convenient.
"The Man" might slag off obesity in public, but "The Man" really wants more people to become obese.
or maybe.. just maybe.. instead of walking in the fields behind a plow and only being able to eat the foods you produce yourself on your own land with your own hands, we are now at a point where food is abundant and cheap and many people spend their days sitting at a desk behind a computer???
...nawww! couldn't be. worldwide food and pharmaceutical company conspiracies make much more sense as an explanation.
sure there is an abundance of food. there is so much surplus FOOD that stores of it are destroyed whilst people go hungry in other parts of the world. I work for a pharmaceuticals company, and let me tell you something..they NEED sick people, they NEED smokers and they NEED just about every single kind of health pandemic to make them rich(er).
Fast food nation and big pharma isn't an easy target to blame..it's pretty much the ONLY reason why obesity is tolerated by the government.
both industries depend on people living longer so they can sell more of their crap. thats all there is.0 -
Society is saying that being obese is unhealthy. So maybe some people are trying to shame others into not being obese. Some people think the obesity problem is causing their medical insurance to go up in cost. Getting rid of fast food or any other one type of food or drink is not going to solve the problem. Education is the best tool to use to fight obesity. Eating and drinking less calories than your body needs is the only answer unless you have a special medical problem. Exercise is good for you but it is always possible to eat too many calories no matter how much exercise you get. Also it is possible to eat too many healthy food calories.0
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