Clean vs. Junk - does it really matter?

However, Sara, some DO advocate diets consisting primarily of "junk foods", and because you/magerum/etc align yourselves with them, it leads many to believe that you don't disagree with that.

I have not seen a single person who advocates a diet consisting primarily of junk food. You are setting up a straw man.

People like me do not advocate a diet consisting primarily of "junk food."

hey sara... this guy ^

and yeah jonny, ya do.

No, I absolutely do not, and in your zealous hatred of me you completely misunderstand everything I post and advocate.

I advocate a diet where the person sets appropriate macronutrient goals to achieve their desired results. How they get there really does not matter. I strongly encourage people to eat vegetables. I also encourage them to eat the foods they love, whatever those are, in ways that allow them to hit their macronutrient goals.

I also encourage people to eat fast food if they want. Fast food is not automatically junk. Grilled chicken sandwiches, tacos, broiled fish and shrimp, ice cream, and hamburgers are not junk food if they fit into your macronutrient profile, full stop. For some reason you think a grilled chicken sandwich from McD's is "junk food" but a grilled chicken sandwich you make at home is not, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You have decided to hate me and everything you understand or interpret about what I say is completely, 100% irrational.

I don't hate you. Don't overreact. I like you actually - I just disagree with your nutritional stances. Which... is fine.

the grilled chicken sandwich I make at home comes from free range, antibiotic free chicken. the bread I used when I ate bread, was as minimally processed as possible and did not contain all the crap that mcdonalds buns do. there is literally NO comparison between a homemade chicken sandwich with good ingredients and a fast food chicken sandwich.

but look at your ticker dude? you are really going to tell me you don't advocate people eat fast food and ice cream, and that you don't brag about doing so every day yourself?

However, Sara, some DO advocate diets consisting primarily of "junk foods", and because you/magerum/etc align yourselves with them, it leads many to believe that you don't disagree with that.

I have not seen a single person who advocates a diet consisting primarily of junk food. You are setting up a straw man.

People like me do not advocate a diet consisting primarily of "junk food."

hey sara... this guy ^

and yeah jonny, ya do.

No, I absolutely do not, and in your zealous hatred of me you completely misunderstand everything I post and advocate.

I advocate a diet where the person sets appropriate macronutrient goals to achieve their desired results. How they get there really does not matter. I strongly encourage people to eat vegetables. I also encourage them to eat the foods they love, whatever those are, in ways that allow them to hit their macronutrient goals.

I also encourage people to eat fast food if they want. Fast food is not automatically junk. Grilled chicken sandwiches, tacos, broiled fish and shrimp, ice cream, and hamburgers are not junk food if they fit into your macronutrient profile, full stop. For some reason you think a grilled chicken sandwich from McD's is "junk food" but a grilled chicken sandwich you make at home is not, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You have decided to hate me and everything you understand or interpret about what I say is completely, 100% irrational.

I don't hate you. Don't overreact. I like you actually - I just disagree with your nutritional stances. Which... is fine.

the grilled chicken sandwich I make at home comes from free range, antibiotic free chicken. the bread I used when I ate bread, was as minimally processed as possible and did not contain all the crap that mcdonalds buns do. there is literally NO comparison between a homemade chicken sandwich with good ingredients and a fast food chicken sandwich.

but look at your ticker dude? you are really going to tell me you don't advocate people eat fast food and ice cream, and that you don't brag about doing so every day yourself?

I put that stuff in the ticker to show that it's entirely possible to eat fast food, ice cream, etc in a manner consistent with health. People demonize fast food for no reason.

Look at the actual food I eat. Yes, I eat a lot of McDonald's and Taco Bell. Do you see what I order at those places? Last week I had a few McWraps. Do you know what's in a McWrap? I'll tell you:

Chicken fillet (grilled or fried)
Lettuce
Cucumber
Tomato
Sauce (ranch, garlic, or chili)

That's it. The chicken is whole breast meat. It's not processed. The lettuce is lettuce, the cucumber is just cucumber, and the tomato is just tomato.

There. That's a meal. The grilled chicken McWrap I had on Friday had 430 calories with 30g protein, 16g fat, and 42g carbs. Then I went to Red Lobster on Saturday. The dinner I ordered was broiled tilapia, shrimp scampi, and stuffed shrimp served with steamed broccoli. 610 calories, 61g protein, 30g fat. I added a couple of biscuits, a beer, and part of an appetizer to fill out the calorie needs I had for that day.

I went to Taco Bell on Sunday and got a Cantina Chicken Burrito Bowl. Rice, guacamole, chicken (whole meat chicken, mind you), black beans, corn pico, and some lime dressing. Had like 560 calories and 26g protein.

This is not junk food. It is fast food, but it is not junk food. The entire point is that it's possible to eat at places like McDonald's, Red Lobster, and Taco Bell within the confines of a healthy diet by making smart choices when eating at those places.

That's what all this is about. Eat the foods you love at the places you love, but in smart ways that fit into your actual food goals.

This article is from the Journal of the American Society of Nephrology. It is entitled, "Uric Acid, the Metabolic Syndrome and Renal Disease" http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/17/12_suppl_3/S165.full

From the article: "...Recently, uric acid also was found to have a causal role in the metabolic syndrome that was induced experimentally by fructose (38). Fructose rapidly raises uric acid as a consequence of activation of fructokinase with ATP consumption, intracellular phosphate depletion, and stimulation of AMP deaminase (39). Lowering uric acid in fructose-fed rats ameliorates much of the metabolic syndrome, including a reduction in BP, serum triglycerides, hyperinsulinemia, and weight gain (38). The rise in uric acid after fructose ingestion likely has a significant role in inducing insulin resistance via its effect to lower nitric oxide (35) and also possibly by a direct effect of uric acid on the adipocytes (Sautin et al., submitted).

In turn, fructose intake correlates well with the recent rise in the epidemic of metabolic syndrome, diabetes, hypertension, and kidney disease (40). Fructose constitutes 50% of table sugar and also is a major component in high-fructose corn syrup, which is used in the United States as a sweetener. Intake of fructose has increased markedly in the past few decades and correlates with the rising rates of metabolic syndrome...."

In a related area, here is a link to the proceedings of a "Food Addiction Summit" held several years ago. The list of presenters was pretty impressive. Sugar consumption was cited by a number of the researchers as a large part of the problem. http://www.foodaddictionsummit.org/index.htm

Google taco bell meat. And have fun. Its pretty much known by now.

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

Google taco bell meat. And have fun. Its pretty much known by now.

I know all about it. It's primarily ground beef, some isolated oat, and seasoning.

Please pick out the ingredient below that is so incredibly bad:

Beef, water, isolated oat product, salt, chili pepper, onion powder, tomato powder, oats, soy lecithin, sugar, spices, maltodextrin, soybean oil , garlic powder, autolyzed yeast extract, citric acid, caramel color, cocoa powder, silicon dioxide (anti-caking agent), natural flavors, yeast, modified corn starch, natural smoke flavor, salt, sodium phosphate, less than 2% of beef broth, potassium phosphate, and potassium lactate.

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

That's not just rice, it's the cilantro rice with seasoning.

Again: pick out the terrible ingredients that are bad for your health.

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

That's not just rice, it's the cilantro rice with seasoning.

Again: pick out the terrible ingredients that are bad for your health.

every one that isn't cilantro, lime, or rice.

This article is from the Journal of the American Society of Nephrology. It is entitled, "Uric Acid, the Metabolic Syndrome and Renal Disease" http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/17/12_suppl_3/S165.full

From the article: "...Recently, uric acid also was found to have a causal role in the metabolic syndrome that was induced experimentally by fructose (38). Fructose rapidly raises uric acid as a consequence of activation of fructokinase with ATP consumption, intracellular phosphate depletion, and stimulation of AMP deaminase (39). Lowering uric acid in fructose-fed rats ameliorates much of the metabolic syndrome, including a reduction in BP, serum triglycerides, hyperinsulinemia, and weight gain (38). The rise in uric acid after fructose ingestion likely has a significant role in inducing insulin resistance via its effect to lower nitric oxide (35) and also possibly by a direct effect of uric acid on the adipocytes (Sautin et al., submitted).

In turn, fructose intake correlates well with the recent rise in the epidemic of metabolic syndrome, diabetes, hypertension, and kidney disease (40). Fructose constitutes 50% of table sugar and also is a major component in high-fructose corn syrup, which is used in the United States as a sweetener. Intake of fructose has increased markedly in the past few decades and correlates with the rising rates of metabolic syndrome...."

In a related area, here is a link to the proceedings of a "Food Addiction Summit" held several years ago. The list of presenters was pretty impressive. Sugar consumption was cited by a number of the researchers as a large part of the problem. http://www.foodaddictionsummit.org/index.htm

is associated with progressive renal disease in humans.

You have to already have it

That study fed rats 60% fructose.
on a 3000 calorie diet that is 450g of straight fructose a day. for 6 straight months

If you ate 450g of fructose a day for 6 months
you deserve to have diabetes.

as I said.
please interpret the study before you post garbage

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

That's not just rice, it's the cilantro rice with seasoning.

Again: pick out the terrible ingredients that are bad for your health.

every one that isn't cilantro, lime, or rice.

Oh, so:

Garlic powder
Onion powder
Salt
Tomato
Yeast
Bell pepper
Maltodextrin
Niacin
Thiamine

Roger. All terrible and will kill you.

missed the edit quick draw

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

That's not just rice, it's the cilantro rice with seasoning.

Again: pick out the terrible ingredients that are bad for your health.

every one that isn't cilantro, lime, or rice.

Oh, so:

Garlic powder
Onion powder
Salt
Tomato
Yeast
Bell pepper
Maltodextrin
Niacin
Thiamine

Roger. All terrible and will kill you.

missed the edit quick draw

Thaimine and niacin are bad? You should edit to include those.

Here's what's left after we remove the cilantro, lime, rice, spice, and vitamins/minerals:

maltodextrin
silicon dioxide
TBHQ
Dimethylpolysiloxane


That's it. Everything else is rice, a spice, or a vitamin or mineral.

These four ingredients are apparently what makes the rice "junk." Which one, specifically, is so incredibly bad fo ryou?

Consuming high doses (between 1 and 4 grams) of TBHQ can cause nausea, delirium, collapse, tinnitus (ringing in the ears), and vomiting. There are also suggestions that it may lead to hyperactivity in children as well as asthma, rhinitis and dermatitis. It may also further aggravate ADHD symptoms and cause restlessness. Long term, high doses of TBHQ in laboratory animals have shown a tendency for them to develop cancerous precursors in their stomachs, as well as cause DNA damage to them. It is also suggested that it may be responsible for affecting estrogen levels in women.

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

I actually do not like most fast food and basically do not eat it as I do not think it tastes good and also, not eating meat leaves me limited anyway - but you are using a bit of a strawman here - yours sounds boring..who eats just rice (maybe you do)? Do you not season it or put a sauce on it? Legit question.

Rice @ taco bell:

Rice (Raw): Enriched Precooked Parboiled Long Grain Rice [Rice, Niacin, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Thiamine Mononitrate (Thiamine), Folic Acid]. Seasoning: Maltodextrin, Salt, Tomato Powder, Potassium Chloride, Spices, Dehydrated Onion, Yeast Extract, Dehydrated Tomatoes, Citric Acid, Extractives Of Paprika (Color), Paprika (Color), Dehydrated Green Bell Pepper, Dehydrated Red Bell Pepper, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Extractives (Contains Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids), Onion Extractives (Contains Onion Powder, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup Solids, Trehalose), Natural Flavors, And Less Than 2% Silicon Dioxide Added To Prevent Caking. Oil: High-Oleic Low-Linolenic Canola Oil, TBHQ (To Protect Flavor), Dimethylpolysiloxane (An Antifoaming Agent).


my rice?

Rice.

that's it.

That's not just rice, it's the cilantro rice with seasoning.

Again: pick out the terrible ingredients that are bad for your health.

every one that isn't cilantro, lime, or rice.

Oh, so:

Garlic powder
Onion powder
Salt
Tomato
Yeast
Bell pepper
Maltodextrin
Niacin
Thiamine

Roger. All terrible and will kill you.

missed the edit quick draw

Thaimine and niacin are bad? You should edit to include those.

Here's what's left after we remove the cilantro, lime, rice, spice, and vitamins/minerals:

maltodextrin
silicon dioxide
TBHQ
Dimethylpolysiloxane


That's it. Everything else is rice, a spice, or a vitamin or mineral.

These four ingredients are apparently what makes the rice "junk." Which one, specifically, is so incredibly bad fo ryou?

First, include the vitamins and minerals as junk. Fortified V+M have significantly lower bio-availability than the real thing

Secondly -

TBHQ:

Consuming high doses (between 1 and 4 grams) of TBHQ can cause nausea, delirium, collapse, tinnitus (ringing in the ears), and vomiting. There are also suggestions that it may lead to hyperactivity in children as well as asthma, rhinitis and dermatitis. It may also further aggravate ADHD symptoms and cause restlessness. Long term, high doses of TBHQ in laboratory animals have shown a tendency for them to develop cancerous precursors in their stomachs, as well as cause DNA damage to them. It is also suggested that it may be responsible for affecting estrogen levels in women.

Now obviously we're not talking about high doses here, but why the hell put that stuff in your system if there are better alternatives???

Also, if Dimethylpolysiloxane works to keep rice from caking, what's it going to do to your gut? I don't know, but personally I'd rather not find out. That's just me though.

1 and 4 grams?

Consuming between 1 and 4 grams of many essential nutrients will outright kill you.

Dose is important.

Tertiary Butylhydroquinone, or TBHQ as it is more commonly referred to as, is in fact a chemical preservative which is a form of butane. It is used in foodstuffs to delay the onset of rancidness and greatly extends the storage life of foods. It's no wonder that certain fast foods and convenience foods seem to last a lifetime on the shelf these days.

The FDA allows amounts of up to 0.02% of the total oils in food to be TBHQ. This may not sound like a lot, but it does tend to make one wonder why there needs to be a limit on the amount if it is apparently a 'harmless additive.' Mind you, anything which derives its origins from butane could hardly be classified as safe, no matter how small the dose.

but butane isn't really an essential nutrient now is it?

Tertiary Butylhydroquinone, or TBHQ as it is more commonly referred to as, is in fact a chemical preservative which is a form of butane. It is used in foodstuffs to delay the onset of rancidness and greatly extends the storage life of foods. It's no wonder that certain fast foods and convenience foods seem to last a lifetime on the shelf these days.

The FDA allows amounts of up to 0.02% of the total oils in food to be TBHQ. This may not sound like a lot, but it does tend to make one wonder why there needs to be a limit on the amount if it is apparently a 'harmless additive.' Mind you, anything which derives its origins from butane could hardly be classified as safe, no matter how small the dose.