The conspiracy to make (and keep us) fat...

thread full of first world problems.

haha truth

though still nothing will ever compare to the "i don't like the taste of water" thread

OP never said she doesn't have responsibility for what goes in her mouth. In fact, she said she should steer clear rather than making it harder on herself. I think she understood her own body's reaction better and is then better equipped to take care of herself.

I agree. And some of the snotty replies to her topic are unnecessary, implying that she is stupid or blaming the food industry... you bet it is a multimillion dollar industry, and they don't care if their food is unhealthy. Bullies everywhere, even on MFP.

Yep. Internet bullying. It's a rough business. :laugh:

you know that internet bullying is what causes kids to commit suicide right?

really something you should be laughing about?

(and we wonder where they learn it.... sigh...)

You know kids aren't allowed on this site, right? And the internet bullying you are speaking of involves actual attacks, not disagreements?

Yeah, I'm a little offended that Reddy thinks that disagreements will lead to suicide attempts. And that he seems to think I'm raising my child to be a bully.

I'm offended, but not enough to report him - because I can understand that he has a disagreement about my opinion, not that he's bullying me.

no, come on, don't extrapolate what I said to something entirely different. I get in disagreements on here daily. that's not bullying and not what I was referring to.

i just think that it would behoove us to treat each other with a little more respect and not laugh about internet bullying like BeachIron did. making people feel like crap for posting something they found interesting is not really a great thing to be doing. But who knows... I could be wrong.

Pretty sure BeachIron was laughing at the incorrect statement that there was bullying in this thread.

Real bullying is a serious matter. I am in no way debating that. A bully will relentlessly torment a victim, making them repeatedly feel ashamed of themselves and worthless. Often, physical abuse will accompany the mental anguish.

Stating that someone has a stupid opinion on a controversial topic is not bullying. Even if they say the opinion is stupid. Just because I disagree with you about your views on food and think some of what you have to say is total BS, doesn't mean that I want to hurt you or want harm to come to you.

People need to stop crying "bully" over disagreements.

i have received multiple personal messages over the last couple months stating something to the effect of "I never post because I'm afraid how people will jump on me" or "Thanks for sticking up for me - I can't believe how rude/mean/hurtful people on these threads can be" etc etc

the words you use can affect people, even if you feel they're innocuous. making someone feel stupid for posting something they found interesting is bullying and disrespectful whether you want to believe it or not.

Part of losing weight and getting healthy is finding PRACTICAL approaches to doing so, and that generally involves the emotional maturity to apply a good degree of self control. The fact that certain people lack this maturity, tend to blame others for their problems and feel ganged up on and attacked when others disagree with them, is not everyone else's problem. It is their problem, and something for which they should probably seek help.

Bullying.
Reported.

The collected wealth of health information comes from both government financed studies, and independently financed studies. It comes from doctors, drug companies, health food companies, and junk food companies. It comes from a lot of places. Some of it is interconnected, and some of it isn't. Whose responsibility is it to keep big business in check? The government? We've already established how they work together. So who then does it fall back on? The consumer. The consumer either has to learn how to read a label, and use Google before deciding what to buy, or they need to stop electing certain government officials. Is there deception in the government, and in big business? Absolutely. Do advertisers lie to us? Of course. So how is the problem solved if not by us? Anyway....this merry-go-round has run its course.

ETA: middle ground - I do not think this means what you think it means.

the consumer has no power because the consumer is fed misinformation buy these companies and the government. this is where your argument of consumer as a check on big business falls apart. the whole system is horribly flawed.

Go read the first four sentences of my post again. I'll bold them for you. Do you really think that every doctor, scientist, farmer, and food producer works for the government? Everyone who knows anything about food (except for you apparently) is in on the scam? We need to include book publishers in that, because obviously the government isn't going to let conflicting information be published, lest the consumer wise up. All this information comes from only one place? If that's the case, then yeah. We're all screwed.

*sigh*

where did doctors learn THEIR information from? textbooks? med schools? how are those med schools funded? who writes the textbooks?

I'll tell you, I'm studying nutrition right now, and my textbook that is copyright 2013 has information in it that makes me cringe. it STILL promotes low fat diets. It STILL says saturated fats are the devil. It promotes the government's MyPlate plan every other page, even though that plan is terrible. It suggests that fortified foods are BETTER than getting vitamins from biological sources. In other words, my nutrition textbook is a wealth of misinformation, yet this is the information that doctors get fed.

why all this government info in my textbook if they're not connected?

Can I ask how you arrived at the conclusion that the My Plate plan is terrible?

because it is.

let me show you this gem:

What would happen if people stopped going to McDonald's?

McDonald's would eventually file for bankruptcy protection, stiff it's creditors and lay off a massive number of people, and Burger King and Wendy's would enjoy higher revenue and profitability.

That will never happen though because there are still enough ppl who have self control and are fit and healthy and dont abuse the food there. You never hear them complaining about what they do to the food and so on like dieters who have finally seen the light but cant get honest with theirselves and still want to blame the world for them geting fat.. YOu get to eat mcdonalds! Thats what happens when you start taking accountability and stop blaming. Wow self control is so rewarding!

"food scientists" creates our food and that people that work for these companies (Kraft, etc.) don't even eat their own food.

OK. Now I can tell you that this is absolute BS. Food scientists are hired because they know the chemistry, physics, biology, etc behind food (hence, the 'scientist' bit, because they are). The food scientists that are hired to improve customer appeal like making ice cream creamier or potato chips crunchier or Twinkies that perfect shade of yellow absolutely taste their own product (or take it to the company's hired taste expert) to narrow down the likely successful products. They can't do focus group testing on every experiment - it's way too expensive.

Now, do they eat the food in their non-work lives? Probably not. I have to admit, if my job required taste testing anything repetitively, no matter how tasty and good for me, I'd probably stay as far away from it as possible outside of work.

"food scientists" creates our food and that people that work for these companies (Kraft, etc.) don't even eat their own food.

OK. Now I can tell you that this is absolute BS. Food scientists are hired because they know the chemistry, physics, biology, etc behind food (hence, the 'scientist' bit, because they are). The food scientists that are hired to improve customer appeal like making ice cream creamier or potato chips crunchier or Twinkies that perfect shade of yellow absolutely taste their own product (or take it to the company's hired taste expert) to narrow down the likely successful products. They can't do focus group testing on every experiment - it's way too expensive.

Now, do they eat the food in their non-work lives? Probably not. I have to admit, if my job required taste testing anything repetitively, no matter how tasty and good for me, I'd probably stay as far away from it as possible outside of work.

They typically source taste testing within the company, they don't taste it themselves (that would be bad science, too much bias).

My husband works for a flavor and fragrance company, and he does flavor panels almost daily. He gets incentives for it, like the more panels you do the more points you earn and you can win things with the points or something.

Rarely they will want to spend money on something and they will source it out to friends and family of the employees. I've done a few. Chewing gum, breakfast cereal. I'd earn like $5 for a week-long panel.

ETA: When you work with these flavor components in their raw material form, you rarely want to taste the food it's in.

My husband spent a few years consistently using benzaldehyde as a solvent, and he works next to a plant that manufactures ethyl methylphenylglycidate. He can't stand cherry or strawberry flavored anything anymore.

Typical MFP douche bags downing a thread by someone just putting something out there.

This.

Nailed it.

INORITE? This sharing of differing opinions can be *soooo* annoying. MFP would be such a better place if people would just not share their opinions when they're different than OP.

When everybody is disagreeing with a bunch of stuff the OP DIDN'T say, it doesn't seem like honest disagreement. It just looks like a bunch of people who desperately want to tell somebody she's wrong. Even is she isn't.

And, when those people decide to disagree with stuff the OP didn't say by mocking the points she didn't make...this thread is nothing like what you seem to want to make it out to be.

Here's the thing. There is a conspiracy between the government and food corporations to keep us buying food. The same way there is a conspiracy between the government and drug companies to keep us going to the doctor when we need treatment for illness. The same way there is a conspiracy between the government and oil companies to keep us buying fuel. The same way there is a conspiracy between the government and banks to keep us banking. The same way there is a conspiracy between the government and car companies to keep us buying cars. The same way.... Do you see where this is going?

This isn't a conspiracy. This is no more than the wheels of commerce turning. We want something. Someone provides it. We buy, and consume. Rinse and repeat. There are different levels of efficiency, and better or worse economic systems and marketplace models, but at the heart of it all is just supply and demand. As long as someone wants to buy something, someone will sell it because money provides necessity and comfort. It's been this way since the first caveman traded half a dead animal for a wheel, or a skin, or whatever. No conspiracy necessary.

right, that's the kicker. aside from this particular poster, very rarely is the word conspiracy even thrown around by folks on my side of the table that see the obvious conflict of interest. the WORD conspiracy comes from those who start offering us tin hats. I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's a bi-product of capitalism and a business-driven economy. The government, big pharma, monsanto, etc, they're all companies that run on profits, and each is dependent on the others' success for their success. that's why it may seem like a "conspiracy", but in reality, it's just good business at the expense of the consumer.

Here's the thing coach, you're leaving the biggest variable out of the equation. Both the government, and the corporation depend on one thing for their success more than they do on each other....the consumer. We decide who governs us, and we decide what we buy. They are working together to give us what we vote for, and want to purchase, and they also work together to line their pockets with as much money as possible. Because getting paid provides necessity and comfort. We're all part of the food chain. Food corporations do everything they can to make their food taste better so that people will keep buying it. That's their primary purpose. If I see it, I want it, and I think it tastes good, I will buy it. I'm glad they do what they do because it provides something I want. If you don't want it, that's fine, but quit demonizing those who do. It's entirely possible to live long, healthy, happy lives consuming this stuff, but it's the responsibility of the person buying it to use it well. This isn't exploitation...it's business.

we decide what we buy, but we rely on the government to tell us what is and isn't good for us! that's where the issue lies. unfortunately, while humanity is brilliant on an individual scale, en masse we're complete idiots. the majority of people in America probably still believe the food pyramid to be accurate and healthful. additionally, most nutritional studies are government-funded OR privately funded by companies who may or may not stand to gain from the information revealed in said study.

to ignore the conflict of interest is asinine.

If we blindly rely on the government or anyone else to tell us what is and isn't good for us, then whatever happens to us isn't their fault. It's ours. We live in a world where a collected wealth of information is available on our phones. We don't even have to go find a computer to look things up. I rely on my eyes, and my brain to tell me what is and isn't good for me. People who live under weak and ineffectual governments, or no government at all don't have the convenience of a government to blame for their ills. Do you know why? Because they are the arbiters of their own survival and well being. (Discounting of course, oppressive regimes, and a lack of resources.) They are forced to figure out what is good, and what isn't by trial and error. For those of us fortunate enough to live in a sea of information, there is no excuse. There is no conflict of interest. They decide what to make and we decide whether or not to buy it. There's no feigned nobility in what they do. Their job is to figure out the best way to make money. It's not always done honestly. Our job is to spend money. It's not always done wisely but whose fault is that?

where does this collected wealth of health information come from? studies done by researchers who are most likely funded by the government and companies that stand to benefit. it's all interconnected, that's all I'm saying.

you're acting as if I've said we shouldn't be held personally responsible. of course we should. but does that mean we should also let big business run unchecked? of course we shouldn't. that's what got us into this economic mess in the first place!

middle. ground.

is that so hard to comprehend?

The collected wealth of health information comes from both government financed studies, and independently financed studies. It comes from doctors, drug companies, health food companies, and junk food companies. It comes from a lot of places. Some of it is interconnected, and some of it isn't. Whose responsibility is it to keep big business in check? The government? We've already established how they work together. So who then does it fall back on? The consumer. The consumer either has to learn how to read a label, and use Google before deciding what to buy, or they need to stop electing certain government officials. Is there deception in the government, and in big business? Absolutely. Do advertisers lie to us? Of course. So how is the problem solved if not by us? Anyway....this merry-go-round has run its course.

ETA: middle ground - I do not think this means what you think it means.

the consumer has no power because the consumer is fed misinformation buy these companies and the government. this is where your argument of consumer as a check on big business falls apart. the whole system is horribly flawed.

No! Consumer power is stripped when they give it away to bureaucrats and let them make decisions for us. Companies don't get to make these decisions. (Look no further than General Mills getting fined for quoting studies on oatmeal.) They will work to influence through the lobby process. And sometimes they win. But it's the *process* that's wrong. It's the idea that grown folks need someone to protect them that is wrong. In a free market, consumers hold the power. In a regulated market, bureaucrats hold the power.

Typical MFP douche bags downing a thread by someone just putting something out there.

This.

Nailed it.

INORITE? This sharing of differing opinions can be *soooo* annoying. MFP would be such a better place if people would just not share their opinions when they're different than OP.

Yeah then the poor ppl that havent a clue and are trying to do the right thing will have nothing but one sidedness to make their decisions....*rolls eyes*.....

Typical MFP douche bags downing a thread by someone just putting something out there.

This.

Nailed it.

INORITE? This sharing of differing opinions can be *soooo* annoying. MFP would be such a better place if people would just not share their opinions when they're different than OP.

Yeah then the poor ppl that havent a clue and are trying to do the right thing will have nothing but one sidedness to make their decisions....*rolls eyes*.....

When everybody is disagreeing with a bunch of stuff the OP DIDN'T say, it doesn't seem like honest disagreement. It just looks like a bunch of people who desperately want to tell somebody she's wrong. Even is she isn't.

And, when those people decide to disagree with stuff the OP didn't say by mocking the points she didn't make...this thread is nothing like what you seem to want to make it out to be.

It's funny because I watched forks over knives with my fiance and it really really changed our perception of everything. I've been 100% vegan and 90% raw for soon to be two years, my hypothyroidism went away proven by blood work, my acne cleared up, my hair grew faster, and I slept much better and wasn't so drained all the time after I changed my diet around. I think meat and dairy is one big conspiracy and I say this because we're not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from beans which are also very high in fiber, we are not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from greens such as spinach and broccoli, and yet we are constantly told that we need to eat dairy and meat to survive. I have been a full on vegetarian for almost 3 years and a vegan for soon to be 2 years and in the past and I have not gotten sick once, I'm 18...three years ago in high school I missed 26 days out of a 180 day school year because I was so sick and exhausted all the time. I am living proof of how we are brain washed to think everything backwards and how I changed my life around once I realized this.

Vegans often attribute cutting meat/dairy to any beneficial changes in their life while ignoring the fact that many also cut refined/processed carbs and sugars.

If you notice, BOTH raw vegan and paleo dieters state incredibly positive changes to adopting the diets they have... and the ONLY thing in common is the elimination of refined/processed carbohydrates and often the introduction of more fresh/whole foods.

This indicates meat/dairy isn't the problem, but the refined/processed carbohydrate and lack of fresh/whole foods in people's diet.

This does seem to be the case. I have enjoyed unusually good health since I eliminated sugar and junky food from my diet. Weight loss is just one of the effects.

the danger in generalizing is being wrong in many cases...

I have known a lot of fat vegetarians...
think cheese pizza , etc ...
the first person i knew of my acquaintance who had a MF (heart attack) was a vegetarian , and on the surface her diet seemed healthy

The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.

I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.

She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.

The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.

I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.

She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.

I did not read this whole thread but she did not say that in the OP.

I recently came across two reports that made me realize how much the choices we make affect our success.

The first one I heard on NPR. It was someone talking about how we’re “hard-wired”, …we’re made to want high fat, high calorie foods (and a lot of it). Our ancestors who ate as much of those things as they could, when they could are the ones who survived. The problem is, our ancestors didn’t have the abundance of these things that we do today. My take away? Don’t start eating these things, because it’s too hard to stop (and not just because I my willpower isn’t strong enough).

The other was an article in the NY Times magazine, that discussed how food manufacturers make the food we eat. The one thing that blew my mind? There is an actual term they use, called the “bliss factor” that is the point at which a food triggers a response in your body that makes you want to keep eating. Let me repeat this…they actually create foods with the goal to make it physically more difficult to put it down.

Wow, like it isn’t hard enough for me already! What this made me realize is that I really do need to focus on the items around the perimeter of the store. I have been aware of that for a while, but these two things made the light bulb go off for me…when I eat the things that are processed, I’m making it much harder on myself than it needs to be.

And why on earth would I do that?

I recently came across two reports that made me realize how much the choices we make affect our success.
******counter response: reports are BS for every one you find in support there is one to object to it.

The first one I heard on NPR. It was someone talking about how we’re “hard-wired”, …we’re made to want high fat, high calorie foods (and a lot of it). Our ancestors who ate as much of those things as they could, when they could are the ones who survived. The problem is, our ancestors didn’t have the abundance of these things that we do today. My take away? Don’t start eating these things, because it’s too hard to stop (and not just because I my willpower isn’t strong enough).
***counter response:there are alot above pick one, most agree with the OP

Wow, like it isn’t hard enough for me already! What this made me realize is that I really do need to focus on the items around the perimeter of the store. I have been aware of that for a while, but these two things made the light bulb go off for me…when I eat the things that are processed, I’m making it much harder on myself than it needs to be.
***counter response:accountability,self control,responsibility,acknowledgement of bad eating habits also plentiful troughout post

This is a hot topic so of course you will have ppl divert from the subject or say things to be jerks and not contribute any information what so ever. Also there are things to be discussed to get to WHY it is like this and WHY the outside isles are now considered the places to shop. I agree but for the moment for me there is a reason for that. When I get where I should be I can non abusingly partake in the foods that are purposely made to taste super duper awesome so much that it will send me into an uncontrollable fit if pig out rage so I get fat as a house again.....*rolls eyes*