Pregnancy 2010 - August

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  • hodakhon
    hodakhon Posts: 17 Member
    im happy to find out this group. i am ttc and unfotunatly my doc notice me to lose more than 20 lbs .
    i dont know but i cant be pregnant because im so fat!!!
    i m so sad and unhappy... im trying to lose weight but it doesnt work yet!!
    and hope to have some ticket like you to show my baby !
    :(:(:(( :(:(
  • ron2282
    ron2282 Posts: 2,760 Member
    Hi Everyone! It's been about 2 weeks since I logged in because as you know - my little bundle of joy came 2.5 weeks early!!

    We are doing great! She is as healthy as can be and she likes to sleep! :flowerforyou:

    As you all know, I went to the doctor on the 10th and they scheduled me for an ultrasound because my belly was measuring big. So after work I went to get my hair cut and highlighted. I had a standing joke with everyone saying that I needed to get my hair done and then she can come anytime after that. I pulled out of the salon at 6:45 and stopped by our best friend's new house they just closed on that afternoon at around 7:30. (it's 2 blocks from our house). I literally was there for about 5-6 mins, was up stairs in her walk in closet and then it happened.....

    A big gush of fluid (not messy and thankfully I was wearing pants). I stopped for a second and thought, well maybe I peed myself. Took 2 more steps and realized it was not stopping. So being funny, I asked my best friend if she had a bathroom upstairs with toilet paper. She asked "Why?"...my answer " I think my water just broke!" So as I'm trying to figure out what was happening, she's screaming through the bathroom door..."does it smell, what color is it, is it stopping"...all I could do was laugh. My best friend has 2 kids of her own, so she came to me with a diaper and said "I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but put this on". she was right....boy did that help!

    So I drove home, still laughing at the situation. My hubby was on the phone when I got home and I must have given him a look. I told him he needed to get off the phone. He hung up 2 seconds later and then I told him that my water broke. He thought I was joking....I told him to feel my crotch. LOL. So in like 30 seconds, my bag, robe, pillow and such were at the front door. He was freaking out....I had to reel him back in and calm him down. He was so cute :) I called to on call doctor and we left for the hospital about an hour later. I was in no pain and really calm.

    Got to the hospital, got checked in (about 9pm). I was having contractions, but not feeling them. The doc came in and I was dilated to a 3. My full water was not completely broken, so the doc broke it for me. They moved me to my birthing suite and we met our nurse....she was an angel! My hubby is quite the chit chatter, so she realized that and gave him an entire packet of paper to keep his mind busy. It was cute. She talked with us for about an hour and a half. I got to a 4 without any pain meds. Then I got some type of pain meds through my IV bag (about 1am). That lasted for about an hour and a half and I started to feel the contractions again...and they were pretty intense. So about 3:30 am I got an epidural, I was at a 6 almost 7. Let me tell you I was SO sacred of getting one. But at that point you could have put an epidural in my skull and would not have cared. :laugh: It felt like a bee sting....no joke. It was easy peasy!

    So the epidural got me to a 10 in about an hour. I started to feel them pretty strongly again. I thought the epidural was supposed to help with the pushing pain - not in my case. I felt like I felt everything! I started to push at 5 am and I pushed for about an hour and a half. The pain was intense! My hubby was being so supportive, but I was in my own zone. My favorite words were "shhh" and "don't touch me". In order to concentrate and get through the pain I needed quite time. LOL So I must have pushed about 15 times (in sets of 3) and out she came. Towards the end I felt her head and everything...hurt, but it was so cool!

    Alexis Marie was born at 6:31 am 6lbs 15 oz 19 3/4 inches long on August 11th.

    She came out and they put her on my belly and it was love at first sight. She had my dimples and the sweetest lips ever. I was crying, my nurse crying, my hubby was crying. It was a beautiful moment.

    Hubby cut the cord and then she got a bath. I got stitched up. I didn't tear that much and not in your typical place, but I tore more internally. They cleaned me up - what a process! And I was all set.

    I was not in any pain afterwards....just the typical bleeding and such. We stayed in the hospital for 2 days, just to get rest and relax.

    At home it's fun! She's a solid sleeper and eater. I had one bad day with breast feeding. The day my milk came in was a bad one. My boobs were huge and she wouldn't latch on. I was an wreck. I felt like for a week, if a pen dropped I would cry! :sad:

    I'm good now and we are on a pretty good schedule! I'm enjoying my time off and just loving the heck out of her. :love:

    I weighed myself the Monday after we got home and lost 16 lbs from just delivering her. I'm down another 2 lbs so I have 8 more to go. YEAH!:happy:

    Hope everyone else is doing great!! I haven't had much time to follow since she came!

    Here's a link to my facebook album:

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2073641&id=1443997793&l=9ecfde0fc4

    Congratulations!!!! She is beautiful!!!
  • dragonfly74
    dragonfly74 Posts: 1,382 Member
    Hello everyone! I am so happy I found this board. I happened to stumble upon it and glad I did!

    I am newly pregnant with #4 and wish I had lost about 10 lbs more prior to pregnancy but the reality is I didn't. Currently I am at 141.4 and I am 5' 5" tall. I am happy, however, that I currently weigh about 5 lbs less than when I became pregnant with my now 23 month old.

    I wish everyone the best and now it is time to go back and read some posts to get "caught up."
  • tahmed
    tahmed Posts: 409 Member
    Welcome dragonfly! We have an awesome group here.

    Is anyone trying to up their fiber intake? A friend of mine said to get as much fiber as possible, as it really helps "keep things moving" while pregnant.? What is a reasonable amount? Any suggustions on easy ways to get more fiber?
  • 00Angela00
    00Angela00 Posts: 1,077 Member
    Baby doesn't like anything! I feel sick all of the time and nothing seems to help. I am either at work or at home laying on the couch or in bed. I want this part to be over already. Sorry for venting but all of my fav foods make me super sick, even just the thought of them. Anyone have any ideas in controlling this nausea? I seem to be sicker with this baby than any of my others :sad:

    I was pretty sick my first trimester too. Light foods light brown rice, broth, bananas, etc can be easier to tolerate sometimes (even if they don't sounds good) Drink lots of fluids, when I'm nauseas I tend not to want anything and my fluid level goes way low. Last thing you want is to become dehydrated! Too much risk to baby! Someone mentioned after I felt better that drinking pediasure (spelling?) is good too because you get nutrients and fluid, but I would check with your OB first.
  • 00Angela00
    00Angela00 Posts: 1,077 Member
    Ok, so I work at a hospital and was standing talking to a patient and felt a "gush" of fluid ... not what I would expect your water breaking to be since it sounds like that's usually a significant amount, but enought to leek through my underwear and spot my scrub bottoms! So I was standing there thinking "omg, did my water start to break?"!

    I went to the bathroom to take a look, peed hardly anything, tried to move around to see if more would come out ... nope. It's been about an hour and still nothing more so maybe it was a bad episode of incontinence? I seems weird since my bladder was pretty empty. *sigh Much grosser to think that I peed my pants a little at work. lol
  • 00Angela00
    00Angela00 Posts: 1,077 Member
    Welcome dragonfly! We have an awesome group here.

    Is anyone trying to up their fiber intake? A friend of mine said to get as much fiber as possible, as it really helps "keep things moving" while pregnant.? What is a reasonable amount? Any suggustions on easy ways to get more fiber?

    be careful with fiber because too much can actually cause constipation! Just keep it in a normal recommended range (per myfitness) if you experience constipation than increase it a bit, no reason to over do it though. :-) Here's a quick input from a health website:

    How much is too much?
    As with anything, moderation is always best, even with 'healthy' foods like high fiber foods. I have seen clients before who are actually eating so much fiber that they are constipated! If you don't drink enough water along with your fiber, fiber can actually cause a blockage, and sometimes it can be very serious and require surgery. This is rare, but if you are a big fiber eater, make sure you are also an avid water drinker.

    Effects of too much fiber:
    Gas, diarrhea, general abdominal discomfort, constipation, possible blockages, or the need for urgent movements. Some research points to the inability to absorb certain nutrients, but other research refutes that.

    I am not exactly sure how much is too much, but I am inclined to say anything above 50 grams per day may be a bit much. Try to stay less than 45 grams and you should be clear of any of these side effects.
  • Soon2Bfitmamaof3
    Soon2Bfitmamaof3 Posts: 1,911 Member
    I always feared my water breaking somewhere other than home. With my first I was being transferred from one bed to the other at the hospital after having a bad reaction to iv pain medication and the second time around the doctor broke it. I always thought your water breaks than youre in labor however it has not been the case with me in the past. I would call your doctors office just incase, my cousin had a leak in her water bag which can be pretty bad for baby, she ended up being delivered at just 6 months. Better safe than sorry.
  • debnu1
    debnu1 Posts: 1,568 Member
    angela--go get checked! They can actually test to see if it is amniotic fluid. You can get high leaks that just dribble. It isn't always the big gush of fluid! Better safe than sorry--especially with the risk of infection. You could call your OB too just to be sure what they want you to do.

    As far as upping fiber intake, do it gradually and start with whole grains and more fruits and vegetables. I have some fiber capsules that I take if I know I have not had enough as with my last pregnancy I was miserable. But start slow!
  • KatalynasMommy
    KatalynasMommy Posts: 136 Member
    HELLO All,

    I've been TTC for it seems like FOREVER. Nine years ago my doctor put me on clomid went through the whole cycle of the clomid with NO results he told me there was nothing else he could do. So this year tried another doctor she started me out on birth control for a few monthes and Metiformin and now I've been on 1 Clomiphene for 3 monthes now called today for another refill I don't know if it will still be 1 or she will change me to 2 but last few monthes test results showed the I was ovulating and last month was real high so whatever she did I'm ovulating now. With the first doctor on his paperwork I was not ovulating. SO THIS IS A GOOD THING!!! I'm so tried of the monthly deappointments. I've been married for will be 16 years in November been try almost all that time I took the birth control for about 6 monthes before we decided to try to have a baby I figured it would take awhile because it took my grandmother and mother 5 years before they concieved theyr'e first child. So that is way I waited before I went to the doctor to see why I was not conceiving.

    I've been told by a few doctors it was because of my weight I was around 200 when I first went to the doctor about my problem. NOW I'm down to about 160 so I'm hoping for some GOOD NEWS one of these days.

    ADD ME AS A FRIEND IF YOU WOULD LIKE, I COULD USE ALL THE SUPPORT IN THIS SITUATION!
  • ckmama
    ckmama Posts: 1,668 Member
    About the fiber, I was having terrible constipation once I hit 6 weeks, and my wonder drug....was prunes. They didn't make me nauseated I ate a few of the small ones (refrigerated of course) before bed and every morning and it straightend right up.

    I am a terrible pregnancy eater. I crave nothing but junk food and carbs. Oh and some fruits, but veggies and meat make me want to puke. So as you can imagine without my beloved veggies it was getting kind of rough. So the prunes really helped.

    I started having morning sickness at 5 weeks, but it was more like a boat ride than hurling. Now that I am over 8 weeks it is becoming more like hurling.

    I have also had the worst I mean WORST sinus drainage, it makes me so nauseated and it is upsetting my ulcer in my stomach. The doctor recommened benadryl or psuedofed, but then she says we really prefer you not take anything during your first trimester...so I am just gagging on my sinus drainage and my stomach is hurting. Hopefully it gets better. I normally don't have issues with my sinus'
  • emgi
    emgi Posts: 15
    Hello, friends! I'm due anytime now- aiming for Labor Day ;)
    I've gained 40 pounds, and I'm hoping to keep it here (under 190 lbs.) until this birth. I'm happy for this forum.
  • ljmcquade
    ljmcquade Posts: 9 Member
    Hello all. I'm a newbie on MFP. I'm 24 weeks with my second baby. My dd is 2.

    I put on 49lb during my first preg. Lost alot during the birth but put 14lb back on straight away. I really don't want to fall into that trap this time.

    last time I was about 126lb pre preg. This time I was 141lb. I really don't want to put on as much as last time. So far I've put on 12lb. Really looking forward to keeping track of this thread :) Good luck to us all.
  • shoppingqueen34
    shoppingqueen34 Posts: 226 Member
    Ang - I'd call the doc!
  • mwilson1018
    mwilson1018 Posts: 509 Member
    Anyone considering (or has done) natural childbirth? I've heard good and bad things about the epidurals, as well as good and bad things about natural childbirth. Any advice you can give on either one would be great. I would like to think that I could do natural childbirth, but I'm not so sure.... I guess just because this is my first I have no idea what to expect. Thanks in advance for your input!
  • dragonfly74
    dragonfly74 Posts: 1,382 Member
    Anyone considering (or has done) natural childbirth? I've heard good and bad things about the epidurals, as well as good and bad things about natural childbirth. Any advice you can give on either one would be great. I would like to think that I could do natural childbirth, but I'm not so sure.... I guess just because this is my first I have no idea what to expect. Thanks in advance for your input!

    I went natural with my first and let me say it was the best birth of the three children I currently have. With my second I also went natural and it was quicker and more intense but I did it. Now my third was one constant contraction and I ended up having an epidural with him. Right after they gave it to me they checked me and I was 8 cm dilated and 20 minutes later he was born. I was happy to have gotten the epidural with him, it just took them too long to pump me full of fluids and get the doctor there to give it to me. He was my shortest labor yet (3 1/2 hours) but most intense. My water broke with him at home and the contractions started hard right away. He was also 9 lbs 4 ozs. With my other two they broke my water towards the end of my labor.

    So I have to say I had positive experiences with both natural and getting an epidural. Depends on the way you feel and go with that. Every labor is different ~ even of your own.
  • ljmcquade
    ljmcquade Posts: 9 Member
    BY natural child birth do you mean no pain relief at all?

    I just has gas and air with dd which was great. It didn't actually take the pain away but it made it easier to cope with. In the end I think I used it more for comfort and something to think about than actual pain relief.

    I really don't like the idea of an epidural - hate big needles! I too have heard some bad things but there was an article on the BBC news website today that says there research to show that epidural can protect against certain kinds of muscle damage. I suppose it's just what sits best with each woman.

    All I can really say is that the birth of my dd was the most liberating thing I've ever done and I actually can't wait to do it again (I know that sounds weird). I'm hoping to limit my use of gas and air this time too.
  • debnu1
    debnu1 Posts: 1,568 Member
    I seem to be having a lot of sinus drainage and saliva which makes me more nauseated than anything. Chewing gum has really seemed to help with this. I am also a terrible pregnancy eater. I crave carbs like crazy--potatoes, breads, yum! Protein I can eat in small amounts but broccoli and vegies just seem to turn my stomach! I was able to eat some sauteed zucchini last night, but that was almost pushing it.

    I am going to go natural again. My first two I had natural. With my first I had expected to have so much more pain that I was surprised when it wasn't that bad. For me my contractions are more of a tightness than pain. If you want to do it, then decide that you can and you will. There are so many things that you can do to help. Showering was a big one for me. Once my contractions got to the point where I was cringing I jumped in a hot shower--it helped me to relax. Also just listen to your body. If you are wanting to move around, move around, if you want to sway sway. I spent a lot of time with my first on my knees next to the couch--my second I sat on the edge of the bed and ended up giving birth while standing up. Which I actually really liked--I may try to do that again--holding on to my husband and standing. A big thing that also helped was counterpressure on the back--that is where most of my pain would concentrate and if I had my husband push on my back during my contractions it almost took the pain away! I know you can do it! Especially if your OB and hubby are supportive!!
  • mwilson1018
    mwilson1018 Posts: 509 Member
    BY natural child birth do you mean no pain relief at all?

    I just has gas and air with dd which was great. It didn't actually take the pain away but it made it easier to cope with. In the end I think I used it more for comfort and something to think about than actual pain relief.

    I really don't like the idea of an epidural - hate big needles! I too have heard some bad things but there was an article on the BBC news website today that says there research to show that epidural can protect against certain kinds of muscle damage. I suppose it's just what sits best with each woman.

    All I can really say is that the birth of my dd was the most liberating thing I've ever done and I actually can't wait to do it again (I know that sounds weird). I'm hoping to limit my use of gas and air this time too.

    Yes, I mean not having any pain medication. What is gas and air?



    debnu - Did you deliver at home?
  • AlisaToth
    AlisaToth Posts: 414 Member
    I don't think many if any hospitals in the US use gas as a form of pain management, that is more of a european thing. (ljmcquade is from england it looks like)

    I don't think i could do a natural birth, but i'm def going to hold out for the epidural only with my next one.

    When i was in labor with my son I was given an IV narcotic when i was only like 3 cm but starting to have stronger contractions (to "take the edge off") and it made me feel drunk for about an hour (so i could feel everything i just didn't care...) and then just like coming down from any strong narcotic it made me really sick to my stomach and I vomitted off and on thru the rest of my labor. Then when I got my epidural, mixing that with the after effects of the narc i became lethargic and could bearly hold my head up and still feel painful pinching contractions under my boobs/upper belly area. It was TERRIBLE. However, at one point my sons heart rate would go crazy everytime i had a contraction so they gave me a shot to stop the contractions. When they did that my whole body relaxed and I fell asleep for like 2 hours and slept off the rest of the narcotic and woke up refreshed, numb and ready to push. I could still feel the pressure of him crowning (i actually woke up and said "Um, someone needs to get the Dr. I can feel the baby's head between my legs!!") and then pushed for 20min and he was out! I was actually calling people while they were sewing me up bc i couldn't feel a thing!

    So kudos if you can do it on your own. I'm a giant chicken and don't think i could, however i am going to try to hold out as long as possible next time! Good Luck with your birth plan!
  • ljmcquade
    ljmcquade Posts: 9 Member
    I'm in the UK and here gas and air (nitrous oxide) is the first line in possible pain relief and really common. I've just read a book by an American OB and he said that gas and air is hardly ever used in the US but it is available if you ask for it. He seemed to think this was because it's cheap and companies have no real reason to push it. Like I said, it doesn't actually take the pain away but makes it more bearable and doesn't affect the baby in the slightest. You breath it in a bit like a scuba mask and when you breath out, it leaves your system almost instantly.

    I can recommend the back rub too. My partner rubbed my back through the whole thing, it helped him feel useful and really helped with the pain. Although after the birth I was sorest where he'd rubbed lol.
  • tahmed
    tahmed Posts: 409 Member
    I will probably go for the meds. I am a whimp when it comes to pain, and I think I will be so worried about the pain, I will make myself a nervous wreck, and do more harm than good. I think knowing there is something that can help me handle the pain will make me a lot more relaxed.
  • jessdawn1982
    jessdawn1982 Posts: 31 Member
    Anyone considering (or has done) natural childbirth? I've heard good and bad things about the epidurals, as well as good and bad things about natural childbirth. Any advice you can give on either one would be great. I would like to think that I could do natural childbirth, but I'm not so sure.... I guess just because this is my first I have no idea what to expect. Thanks in advance for your input!

    When I had my daughter I had every intention of going "natural" but....she was 2 weeks late and I had to be induced. I was in labor a total of 30hrs. I did not sleep the first night in the hospital and after 15 hours of labor with only 1cm dilation I got something in my IV to take the edge off so I could nap because I was afraid I would be to tired when the time came to push. I did not think it was to bad and remember it is only temporary. To help with pain I heated up a buckwheat pillow and had someone rub it on my back while I stood beside the bed leaning forward. But after 30hrs I had only dilated 1.5 cm and I ended up having to have a c-section. I soon found out why I would not dilate......My little girl was 10lbs 12oz and 22.25in. I am a petite person (only 5' 2") and she was just to big to come out that way :/ I say if you decide to don't let people discourage you. I had a lot of people comment and tell me that I was crazy because I did not want an epidural but it was my choice. Also remember that things don't always go as planned so plan for everything.
  • ckmama
    ckmama Posts: 1,668 Member
    I thought I was going to have a vaginal birth until I hit about 20 weeks, then it was back and forth with the doctor. She ended up sending me to a specialist and they conquerred that a c-section was safest with my first. I have a flat pelvic (i can't remember the name) but the top part of the pelvis that goes up mine is flat, and the baby's head wasn't coming out that way.

    With my section they didn't allow any type of IV pain meds only the epidural. I was super frightened but didn't feel a thing, i didn't have the shakes afterwards either.

    I was having contractions less than a minute apart and I wasn't dilated but 2 cm, and that happened the morning I was scheduled to have my section so it all worked out.

    I know of several women who had their babies naturally and said it went fine, but I don't know if someone would say "OMG it was the most painful terrible experience i've ever been through"

    My section wasn't bad, it was scary, and the healing process was very painful and my incision got infected. If you can avoid one I would, they aren't what some people make them out to be. They are a means to an end.
  • 00Angela00
    00Angela00 Posts: 1,077 Member
    EMGI- I am totally aiming for labor day! I think it would be awesome! ... although I'll be 2 weeks early for my first baby, so it's not likely. lol, oh well. I have heard however that A LOT of women go into labor on labor day, so hopefully we'll still get full attention if it does happen!

    MWILSON- I'M TOTALLY PLANNING A NATURAL BIRTH! I started off my pregnancy thinking there was NO WAY I was going to do a natural birth, until i found out all the benefits of it. The more I read about epidurals the more I felt like there is NO WAY that I would do an epidural! lol

    Here's what I've heard, please be aware everyone that I realize there's tons of women would swear by epidurals and have not had problems with anything listed below, however there are lots of women that have had epidurals and then did natural birth and would never do an epidural again. There's no reason to think that getting an epidural will automatically mean you or your baby will have any problems!

    So there are a ton of benefits of natural birth: much faster recovery for mom, the ability to move around right after delivery if you want to, faster labor, no risk of medications causing problems with babies health or breastfeeding. Lower risk of cesarean section or many other complications. Lower risk of tearing. The ability to move around and get into positions that not only are more comfortable, but also help baby to move down faster and labor to progress quicker. Because of the ability to be in different positions during delivery there is a lower risk of not only tearing but injury to your back and tailbone. ETC

    Reason NOT to get epidurals: research has shown that the medication does get into babies system within minutes which causes baby to also be groggy which can take a day or two to wear off. Epidural can also make breast feeding difficult since baby is medicated. Epidurals don't help 100% of the time either, sometimes it only numbs a portion so you may still feel all the pain, but because part of your body is numb you still can't move meaning you can't get into positions that would be more comfortable for a natural childbirth. Positioning for a epidural birth is bad for gravity helping deliver the baby and puts a lot of strain on your tailbone AND puts you at more risk for tearing. Once you get an epidural your bed ridden ... no walking to progress labor, no squating or doing other positions that helps baby move down and come out faster, etc. Higher risk of you getting a fever. Having an epidural puts you at a much higher risk for a cesarean section! ETC

    Also, whether you are planning an natural birth or a medicated birth practicing peineum massage everyday leading up to BD will help reduce the risk of tearing as well. I would recommend reading up on natural birth for recommendations on how to cope with pain naturally (learning exercises that will help, learning positions to be in during early labor and delivery, learning relaxation techniques, etc). I also HIGHLY recommend using a Doula. The use of a trained coach like a Doula also has significantly high percentages of making it through a natural birth, having a positive natural birth experience, and your more likely to have a faster labor! YAY!

    If you do decide to go natural let me know and I can share more specifics on what I've been learning on how to make it through.
  • mwilson1018
    mwilson1018 Posts: 509 Member
    Ladies, thank you so much for your advice, input, and personal stories! They are helping me so much! Please keep them coming if you think of anything else! You are an awesome bunch of ladies!
  • jessdawn1982
    jessdawn1982 Posts: 31 Member
    Also if you choose to go natural you need to do your reading. It will not be easy but from what I read the benefits were worth the temporary pain but it is good to try to find a natural birth class and read up on relaxation techniques. Also natural pain management techniques like shower, heat, massage, music, etc.... Good luck with whatever you choose.
  • valelapena
    valelapena Posts: 1
    Hello! My husband and I got married earlier this year and we are TTC. I'm so glad I found this group!
  • MamaRandall
    MamaRandall Posts: 243 Member
    Hello ladies! I am also very glad I found this group. My hubby and I have been TTC for 2 years now..:grumble: It's been a very long stressful process. I have 2 kids of my own, but they were with my ex. We finally went to the doc a couple months ago and found out he had a varicose vein which was causing bad sperm count. He had surgery July 13th and they said it takes about 72 days for all the sperm to repair itself.... So I'm keeping my fingers crossed now (getting my hopes up again) that it works soon.

    The doc said that 60% of men who have this problem and do the surgery end up getting their wives pregnant within a year. So Now, I'm just trying to be as healthy as I can and lose a couple pounds and get my body ready :happy:

    Congratulations to all you pregnant women out there tho!!! Enjoy the heck out of being pregnant and know just how lucky you are to be able to carry that baby!! :flowerforyou:
  • debnu1
    debnu1 Posts: 1,568 Member
    I heard the heartbeat yesterday! I guess I wasn't imagining this. :) Hope all is well with everyone else!
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