The Sad Story of Ricky Naputi....Who was to blame?

CrazyTrackLady
CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
edited October 30 in Food and Nutrition
I saw this last night. The story is about a 900 lb man, who was bedridden. TLC tried to stage an intervention with him and his wife, and even had doctors offering weight loss surgery provided he lose 150 lbs first. It never happened, and Ricky died at age 39.

He couldn't get up and walk. He could barely breathe right. However, according to his wife, she was feeding him 10K calories a day in food.

The question I pose is this:

Who is more to blame for this man's death: himself, his wife or the doctors who refused to help him unless he lost weight first?

There are many threads on here about spouses who do NOT support our weight loss. But what are your thoughts about spouses who enable the morbidly obese person to continue their destructive habits by bringing them endless amounts of food?

Should someone be charged with a crime here?

I await your responses!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/900-pound-man-race-against-time-video_n_3324332.html
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Replies

  • brdnw
    brdnw Posts: 565 Member
    that's like saying budweiser is to blame for drunk drivers.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    No one should be charged with a crime.

    The person who was at fault has already paid the price.

    If people want to abuse their bodies, let them.
  • SkepticallyFit
    SkepticallyFit Posts: 71
    Why in the world would you blame the doctors? They're not miracle workers.

    The wife may be partially to blame as she could have just stopped responding to his demands for 10K calories worth of food, but that's a lot to ask.

    The person who is actually to blame is the person who died.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
    But what if he couldn't get his own food? And when his wife was told to refuse to bring him food (by the doctors), and she didn't?

    Is she an accomplice in his death?
  • corgicake
    corgicake Posts: 846 Member
    If at any point Ricky looked at his wife as caretaker and went 'feed me actual healthy things' and the wife neither followed through on this or ever reminded him that this conversation happened when he asked for Cheetos... well, this was a bedridden guy and she was functioning as caretaker.

    Otherwise, I say he asked for the food and results of that ensued.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    But what if he couldn't get his own food? And when his wife was told to refuse to bring him food (by the doctors), and she didn't?

    Is she an accomplice in his death?

    I don't think she was. In these cases, the caretaker (or some people like the term "enabler") is actually fearful of the bedridden person. Psychological dominance can be a powerful thing.
  • chelcdub
    chelcdub Posts: 49 Member
    Very sad but he was to blame...but as a wife I would think she would have enough love to discuss her concerns with him if any before he got so out of control. I see many small children that are really overweight and that is where I blame the parents. I saw a lady ask a very small child if he wanted a big soda or candy he picked both (lol of course)...I was just shocked.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
    Very sad but he was to blame...but as a wife I would think she would have enough love to discuss her concerns with him if any before he got so out of control. I see many small children that are really overweight and that is where I blame the parents. I saw a lady ask a very small child if he wanted a big soda or candy he picked both (lol of course)...I was just shocked.

    What was really painful and aggravating to watch was the way she reacted when the doctor told her outright that she was to STOP feeding him so much and to focus on helping him lose the weight. She got extremely annoyed by the doctor and stalked out of the room.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
    This happens with many extremely morbidly obese people. It takes a village to enable a man or woman to these kinds of enormous weights. I recall another 900-1000 lbs man being admitted to Andover, center specializing in treatment of morbid obesity, and watching his dense, thick *kitten* wife sneaking all kinds of junk in to him...IN THE HOSPITAL, after he had to be cut out of their home. She specifically said "if he's not worrying, I'm not worrying". He died in the hospital weeks later.

    But unless a person has severe mental incapacitation and is being force fed the food, no I don't think spouses are responsible. They are responsible for being horrendous life partners, but they aren't to "blame". Many people have unsupportive and sabotaging spouses, and still learn to say "no" and put their health first.
  • chubaway
    chubaway Posts: 1,645 Member
    Everyone has to eat, so . . .

    What if it wasn't food, but instead cigarettes? What if Ricky was a quadriplegic, and couldn't get his own smokes?

    Would his wife have the right to withhold the smokes from him? If she did give him the smokes, and lite them up for him, and they eventually killed him, is she to blame?

    I think ultimately he was to blame, but she did indeed enable him. I think to a lesser degree she contributed to his death.
  • Madame_Goldbricker
    Madame_Goldbricker Posts: 1,625 Member
    Very sad but he was to blame...but as a wife I would think she would have enough love to discuss her concerns with him if any before he got so out of control. I see many small children that are really overweight and that is where I blame the parents. I saw a lady ask a very small child if he wanted a big soda or candy he picked both (lol of course)...I was just shocked.

    What was really painful and aggravating to watch was the way she reacted when the doctor told her outright that she was to STOP feeding him so much and to focus on helping him lose the weight. She got extremely annoyed by the doctor and stalked out of the room.

    Yep she's a feeder! However, whether it's through issues surrounding; enabling, control, misguided feelings of "helping the person", or love who knows?, but at the end of the day he didn't get into that bed overnight & wake up the next day that size. Personal responsibility seems to be frowned upon these days.
  • chubaway
    chubaway Posts: 1,645 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.

    Considering her husband is dead, I'm sure she's suffering adequately enough for you.
  • elizabethduncanheydary15
    elizabethduncanheydary15 Posts: 14 Member
    Since I am currently studying for the bar exam, and I'm pretty up on crimes at the moment- husbands and wives owe each other a duty because of the nature of their relationship- therefore if the wife has breached that duty she can be charged with criminal negligence. Criminal negligence at one level can constitute involuntary manslaughter and if rises to a level of wanton disregard for life it could be depraved heart murder. Feeding someone 10,000k a day would definitely amount to criminal negligence or at the very least accomplice liability for encouraging him to essentially kill himself. Probably too legal an answer for this story, but it helped me apply what I've learned in a different way!
  • Madame_Goldbricker
    Madame_Goldbricker Posts: 1,625 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.

    I get where you're coming from, but! I can't even imagine how hard it is when someone you love is in that situation. Yes, you KNOW the right thing to do. However, if someone is cajoling, crying, black mailing, pleading ect - what do you do? Say no, close the door, ignore them, walk out the house?
  • chubaway
    chubaway Posts: 1,645 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.

    Considering her husband is dead, I'm sure she's suffering adequately enough for you.

    Nope
  • GrendlStig
    GrendlStig Posts: 55 Member
    That's co-depence for ya.
  • mfanyafujo
    mfanyafujo Posts: 232 Member
    that's like saying budweiser is to blame for drunk drivers.

    Not really. Budweiser is a manufacturer, and the OP's question doesn't involve food companies, just the man, his wife, and the doctors.

    I wouldn't blame the doctors. They tell people to lose weight all the time before surgery, to make it more safe and to judge how committed the patient is to a lifestyle change. After that, what's the point in blaming a dead man or his grieving wife? She's probably questioning everything she did anyways. There's no way to know if she could have saved his life or not.
  • lilbearzmom
    lilbearzmom Posts: 600 Member
    But what if he couldn't get his own food? And when his wife was told to refuse to bring him food (by the doctors), and she didn't?

    Is she an accomplice in his death?

    This is something I have never understood about people who are so obese that they cannot get out of bed. Who is responsible for feeding them? They must scream and make life hell for the caregiver if they don't get what they want to eat.
  • chubaway
    chubaway Posts: 1,645 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.

    I get where you're coming from, but! I can't even imagine how hard it is when someone you love is in that situation. Yes, you KNOW the right thing to do. However, if someone is cajoling, crying, black mailing, pleading ect - what do you do? Say no, close the door, ignore them, walk out the house?

    No, you don't walk out of the house. You cut the amount of food to 7500 cal/day for a while, then 5000 cal/day a while more, etc. etc. Then you start walking out of the house.
  • Madame_Goldbricker
    Madame_Goldbricker Posts: 1,625 Member
    Since I am currently studying for the bar exam, and I'm pretty up on crimes at the moment- husbands and wives owe each other a duty because of the nature of their relationship- therefore if the wife has breached that duty she can be charged with criminal negligence. Criminal negligence at one level can constitute involuntary manslaughter and if rises to a level of wanton disregard for life it could be depraved heart murder. Feeding someone 10,000k a day would definitely amount to criminal negligence or at the very least accomplice liability for encouraging him to essentially kill himself. Probably too legal an answer for this story, but it helped me apply what I've learned in a different way!

    Wouldn't it only be criminal negligence if she hadn't been feeding him? I think it would be a hard one to argue in court - Micheal Phelps consumed an estimated 8-12,000 cals per day. Ok, very different circumstances, but this guy could have argued that his body had become used to the amount of calories consumed, & his body would go into shock as a result of a dramatic shortfall. Unless she "forced" him it wasn't legally her responsibility. Just a moral one.
  • chubaway
    chubaway Posts: 1,645 Member
    Since I am currently studying for the bar exam, and I'm pretty up on crimes at the moment- husbands and wives owe each other a duty because of the nature of their relationship- therefore if the wife has breached that duty she can be charged with criminal negligence. Criminal negligence at one level can constitute involuntary manslaughter and if rises to a level of wanton disregard for life it could be depraved heart murder. Feeding someone 10,000k a day would definitely amount to criminal negligence or at the very least accomplice liability for encouraging him to essentially kill himself. Probably too legal an answer for this story, but it helped me apply what I've learned in a different way!

    ^^^ THIS ^^^
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    Let me put my opinion another way. I think the wife should be smacked for providing Ricky with 10K calories a day.

    Considering her husband is dead, I'm sure she's suffering adequately enough for you.

    Nope

    Well, then go smack her then.
  • Katkamm77
    Katkamm77 Posts: 108 Member
    Very sad story. I definitely don't blame the doctors. Without the initial weight loss he probably wouldn't have made it through the surgery.

    I kinda blame his wife for enabling him. I don't get why she would be afraid of him. He couldn't chase her down to do anything physical to her. But, I'm not in that situation so, I don't know her psychological state. I like to think that if I were in that situation I would act more responsibly. I guess I'm more cold hearted. If he whined or cried or yelled at me I would not cater to him. I would close the door so I didn't have to listen (after bringing him a healthy meal/snack/drink). It's easier for me to regulate my family's food than my own.

    Everyone is responsible for their own actions so, I definitely blame him. But, again, I don't know his reason for overeating in the first place. He should have gotten pysch help.

    My brother-in-law was as round as he was tall (about 5'5). His wife always said he didn't eat much but, while sitting round the campfire one night he snacked on at least a dozen pork sausages and an entire bag of chips. Was she blind? He had THE surgery and lost 120 lbs. He still had a way to go. He was so happy that he could walk around the block again. Within a year after his weight loss, instead of losing more, he had gained it all back. It was his fault. No one else's. He made his choices.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
    But what if he couldn't get his own food? And when his wife was told to refuse to bring him food (by the doctors), and she didn't?

    Is she an accomplice in his death?

    This is something I have never understood about people who are so obese that they cannot get out of bed. Who is responsible for feeding them? They must scream and make life hell for the caregiver if they don't get what they want to eat.

    A lot of babies and children pull this off too, but it's called a "temper tantrum". The child screams and cries and begs and pleads for food, and gets what he/she wants because mom and or dad haven't learned how to say "no" or identify the real need that isn't being met.

    This man had a childlike approach to his behavior -- going so far as to plead to the TV cameras that "somebody needs to help me! Somebody fix me!" YET, he refused to do what he needed to do, so he died.

    It's sad that he died before he could connect the dots and realize that HE was the one who needed to change.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,994 Member
    But what if he couldn't get his own food? And when his wife was told to refuse to bring him food (by the doctors), and she didn't?

    Is she an accomplice in his death?
    It's the person who died who is at fault. She didn't force food down his throat, he gladly accepted it. Did she enable him? Probably, but let's say she couldn't bring him the food, he probably order out or would have had a heart attack getting out of bed. Either way it has to start with the person. No will from them and nothing will get done.
    There was another guy who lost like 400lbs with Richard Simmons, then in a year gained it all back. Why? Cause he really didn't want to do it. He did it because Richard encouraged him. Once he was paraded around the country and no longer used as testimony, he went back home and went back to his old habits.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • Hexahedra
    Hexahedra Posts: 894 Member
    If the wife refuses to fulfill his wishes and walks out, would she be liable for neglect (because he can't get up to get his own food)?
  • MelsAuntie
    MelsAuntie Posts: 2,833 Member
    Everyone has to eat, so . . .

    What if it wasn't food, but instead cigarettes? What if Ricky was a quadriplegic, and couldn't get his own smokes?

    Would his wife have the right to withhold the smokes from him? If she did give him the smokes, and lite them up for him, and they eventually killed him, is she to blame?

    I think ultimately he was to blame, but she did indeed enable him. I think to a lesser degree she contributed to his death.



    I agree, she did. If she loved him she would have helped him, she obviously did not.
  • gunnyfuy
    gunnyfuy Posts: 16 Member
    I saw that last night as well! I was appalled by how the wife acted when the doctors told her that her husband had to lose more weight. She pulled out her phone as if to start texting and then just stormed out of the room! And then she didn't even go to his funeral..
    Really though, I think both are to blame in the situation. Ricky couldn't walk even 20 ft, he was clearly unable to prepare his own food. His wife provided him with the unhealthy food, but I doubt she forced it down his throat, he chose to eat it. I feel bad that there was nothing that the doctors could do, but even if he had surgery, it probably would have been unsuccessful because of his relationship with food.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
    Does anyone other than I wonder if maybe she preferred him to remain that way, just because she didn't want him to get better and therefore less dependent on her?

    Is that what co-dependent and enablers do? I don't know.
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