THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories
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How would a person find out their VO2max?
VO2 max testing is expensive as it is basically under lab conditions but VO2 max estimating (note that word "estimate" again!) can be done many different ways.
By comparing your performance against data points of people who have been tested you will get a reasonable idea.
First choose your activity, one that your are used to doing and can be both consistent and give maximum effort. Then find a test using that activity.
Cooper test for running as an example (max distance you can run in 12 minutes).
Here's a link for VO2 estimating using an indoor rower - how fast you can do 2000m -
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/vo2max-calculator0 -
I had been using my calorie burns from my hrm to gauge my fitness improvement - but I have also been using the calorie burns provided as a guide as to what I need to put back in for fuel - but it's not working and I have been tinkering like mad to work out what I was doing right before that I am not doing now as in the last year I have only lost about 17lbs - but I have come down several dress sizes and my fitness has increased through the roof.
I suspect that my max hrm should be set much higher than it is - but I am a bit wary about changing the settings on the watch. I was thinking of looking at the downloaded watch data on the polar site and getting an average max heart rate for my sessions in general and changing my watch settings to reflect that. I was then thinking of calculating how much I burn when I am inactive for an hour - and deduct that off the burns as well.
from what you are saying though - the difference in my routines from 18-22 months ago is that I did used to do a ton of solid state cardio and now I do weights, kettlebells, core resistance stuff like planks & burpees and loads of walking and hillwalking etc- so even adjusting the max HRM on the watch and deducting a base rate off - is perhaps still going to be pretty inaccurate? daily TDEE from my fitbit based on weekly average for the last year is 2778 so I am generally pretty active (I think that is an ok TDEE?) but the figures not adding up is driving me a bit bonkers as I love my stats.
any advice is appreciated.0 -
Bump for @edDavenport0
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How would a person find out their VO2max?
VO2 max testing is expensive as it is basically under lab conditions but VO2 max estimating (note that word "estimate" again!) can be done many different ways.
By comparing your performance against data points of people who have been tested you will get a reasonable idea.
First choose your activity, one that your are used to doing and can be both consistent and give maximum effort. Then find a test using that activity.
Cooper test for running as an example (max distance you can run in 12 minutes).
Here's a link for VO2 estimating using an indoor rower - how fast you can do 2000m -
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/vo2max-calculator
Ahh although I did end up Googling, your info is very helpful, thanks! Going to take a look now :flowerforyou:0 -
I love your posts. Tagging this one to use as another reference.0
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Thanks for the thread,really interesting to know...0
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This is a great thread.
Here's the other reason they have limited use:
HRMs have to be programmed with a set VO2max, which is basically the conversion factor for going from steady-state cardio heart rate to calorie expenditure.
Where is yours? Is it 25? 35? 45?
Do you know? Do you think your HRM knows?0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?0
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I had been using my calorie burns from my hrm to gauge my fitness improvement - but I have also been using the calorie burns provided as a guide as to what I need to put back in for fuel - but it's not working and I have been tinkering like mad to work out what I was doing right before that I am not doing now as in the last year I have only lost about 17lbs - but I have come down several dress sizes and my fitness has increased through the roof.
I suspect that my max hrm should be set much higher than it is - but I am a bit wary about changing the settings on the watch. I was thinking of looking at the downloaded watch data on the polar site and getting an average max heart rate for my sessions in general and changing my watch settings to reflect that. I was then thinking of calculating how much I burn when I am inactive for an hour - and deduct that off the burns as well.
from what you are saying though - the difference in my routines from 18-22 months ago is that I did used to do a ton of solid state cardio and now I do weights, kettlebells, core resistance stuff like planks & burpees and loads of walking and hillwalking etc- so even adjusting the max HRM on the watch and deducting a base rate off - is perhaps still going to be pretty inaccurate? daily TDEE from my fitbit based on weekly average for the last year is 2778 so I am generally pretty active (I think that is an ok TDEE?) but the figures not adding up is driving me a bit bonkers as I love my stats.
any advice is appreciated.
An interesting and somewhat amusing way to gauge your fitness improvement is to look at how many calories your HRM says you've burned while running 2 miles at a given speed at two different points in time. As your fitness improves, the calorie readout will go down even though actual calories burned don't.
This assumes you're at a constant weight, which may not be true.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
Well, you can certainly estimate with reasonable accuracy. HRMs give the impression of significantly increasing accuracy but in reality they don't.
Furthermore, after a few months worth of accurate logging you can calculate with even better accuracy how many calories you're burning on average.0 -
bump to read for later0
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For some reason, even though this is exercise physiology 101, many so-called "fitness experts" do not understand this. Now that you do, this is one way to evaluate the credibility of a trainer or fitness author. If they say something like "lifting weights can be cardio if you move quickly between exercises to keep your heart rate up", you know you are listening to someone with a serious deficit in their knowledge base--and you'll have to wonder what else they don't know.
I read most of your post. I agree that HRMs are only good for aerobic activities and not anaerobic activity. Due to your blood pressure rising during anaerobic giving a false reading on the HRM. But, I do disagree with the part I have quoted above. What you are basically saying is that a fitness "expert" is an idiot if they say you can gain cardiovascular benefit from weight training with shorter breaks, thus making your work faster/harder. I disagree with you. I am not saying that HRMs are accurate to measure weight training sessions but I am saying that you can receive cardiovascular benefit from circuits or supersets due to you constantly moving and moving quickly, therefore increasing the heart rate. Any increase in your heart rate like that is benefiting you cardiovascularly. Now, will it make you able to run a marathon? No. But doesn't every little bit count?0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
You don't need to be exact. That's not the point of the post.
The reason why I love this post is that people think that HRMs are exact or at least more accurate than other methods of estimating when that is not always the case. I see so many people being told they need to buy one, it can be quite an investment for some people and its not necessary.
I have also seen some people blindly follow the HRM numbers, which can be problematic if they are over inflated.
Like someone else said, HRMs can be useful but understanding how they work properly is also.0 -
Because if one loses weight on just cardio and calorie deficit, a higher amount of lean muscle tissue will be lost compared to one who does lift. And losing lean muscle tissue results in a lower metabolic rate and reduction of strength.so from what I am understanding, why should I even bother to do weight lifting when I am trying to lose weight? I cant track the calories so unless I eat half of what I usually do on a lift day, I will come out above on my calories and the whole thing is wasted. So in other words, my hundred dollar purchase was a waste. Great.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I had been using my calorie burns from my hrm to gauge my fitness improvement - but I have also been using the calorie burns provided as a guide as to what I need to put back in for fuel - but it's not working and I have been tinkering like mad to work out what I was doing right before that I am not doing now as in the last year I have only lost about 17lbs - but I have come down several dress sizes and my fitness has increased through the roof.
I suspect that my max hrm should be set much higher than it is - but I am a bit wary about changing the settings on the watch. I was thinking of looking at the downloaded watch data on the polar site and getting an average max heart rate for my sessions in general and changing my watch settings to reflect that. I was then thinking of calculating how much I burn when I am inactive for an hour - and deduct that off the burns as well.
from what you are saying though - the difference in my routines from 18-22 months ago is that I did used to do a ton of solid state cardio and now I do weights, kettlebells, core resistance stuff like planks & burpees and loads of walking and hillwalking etc- so even adjusting the max HRM on the watch and deducting a base rate off - is perhaps still going to be pretty inaccurate? daily TDEE from my fitbit based on weekly average for the last year is 2778 so I am generally pretty active (I think that is an ok TDEE?) but the figures not adding up is driving me a bit bonkers as I love my stats.
any advice is appreciated.
When you start moving to a more interval-based program, esp if those intervals start including movements that are not truly cardio movements, then it becomes increasingly difficult to keep consistent, accurate calorie counts for exercise. That just comes with the territory. With the increasing emphasis on these types of workouts, it becomes more difficult to follow the stock MFP paradigm. I personally think that at this point you have to go with more of an "intake"- based strategy, focused on consistently monitoring intake and then modifying based on results. It's not as neat and tidy that way, but I don't know of any other option because the other way is probably not going to work at all.0 -
Because if one loses weight on just cardio and calorie deficit, a higher amount of lean muscle tissue will be lost compared to one who does lift. And losing lean muscle tissue results in a lower metabolic rate and reduction of strength.so from what I am understanding, why should I even bother to do weight lifting when I am trying to lose weight? I cant track the calories so unless I eat half of what I usually do on a lift day, I will come out above on my calories and the whole thing is wasted. So in other words, my hundred dollar purchase was a waste. Great.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But how do I know how much I need to lift to burn what I have eaten? If I dont know that, than I am just going to gain even more?0 -
Because if one loses weight on just cardio and calorie deficit, a higher amount of lean muscle tissue will be lost compared to one who does lift. And losing lean muscle tissue results in a lower metabolic rate and reduction of strength.so from what I am understanding, why should I even bother to do weight lifting when I am trying to lose weight? I cant track the calories so unless I eat half of what I usually do on a lift day, I will come out above on my calories and the whole thing is wasted. So in other words, my hundred dollar purchase was a waste. Great.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But how do I know how much I need to lift to burn what I have eaten? If I dont know that, than I am just going to gain even more?
The point of lifting is not to burn calories. Lifting doesn't burn many calories at all.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.0
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preach it0
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then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.0
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