THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories
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then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
I guess if your goals fall more in the "osteoporosis and skinnyfat" category than "toned with strong bones" category.
Lifting helps you maintain lean mass while losing weight, as well as strengthening bones and joints and a host of other benefits. If you want to be thin and flabby, with brittle bones and weak joints, then absolutely avoid weightlifting.0 -
An interesting and somewhat amusing way to gauge your fitness improvement is to look at how many calories your HRM says you've burned while running 2 miles at a given speed at two different points in time. As your fitness improves, the calorie readout will go down even though actual calories burned don't.
This assumes you're at a constant weight, which may not be true.
I know my calorie burn has decreased as from my biggest size (well over 300lbs) compared to now I really can't get the same burns I used to (sigh lol)0 -
Super interesting, this never even crossed my mind.
Thanks for the info
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For some reason, even though this is exercise physiology 101, many so-called "fitness experts" do not understand this. Now that you do, this is one way to evaluate the credibility of a trainer or fitness author. If they say something like "lifting weights can be cardio if you move quickly between exercises to keep your heart rate up", you know you are listening to someone with a serious deficit in their knowledge base--and you'll have to wonder what else they don't know.
I read most of your post. I agree that HRMs are only good for aerobic activities and not anaerobic activity. Due to your blood pressure rising during anaerobic giving a false reading on the HRM. But, I do disagree with the part I have quoted above. What you are basically saying is that a fitness "expert" is an idiot if they say you can gain cardiovascular benefit from weight training with shorter breaks, thus making your work faster/harder. I disagree with you. I am not saying that HRMs are accurate to measure weight training sessions but I am saying that you can receive cardiovascular benefit from circuits or supersets due to you constantly moving and moving quickly, therefore increasing the heart rate. Any increase in your heart rate like that is benefiting you cardiovascularly. Now, will it make you able to run a marathon? No. But doesn't every little bit count?
I am not saying they are "an idiot" (although many of them are)--I am saying they are wrong.
Your are substituting opinion for fact, which is always dangerous. Plus you are mixing terms without understanding the different physiological mechanisms underlying each.
Now that's a completely different topic and one which I have commented on numerous times, so I don't really want to hijack my own thread. But, suffice to say that there is a strength component and a cardio component to all exercise movements. Where that movement sits on the continuum between "pure cardio" and "pure strength" will determine what type of results you get.
Manipulating a strength-oriented routine to try and make it more "cardio-y" denigrates the effectiveness of the strength workout and doesn't provide much in the way of cardio benefits. This has been demonstrated numerous time (including the study from which I got my "21% of VO2max" bar for the graph I showed. You can't make a pure strength program into a cardio program, just as you can't do "strength training" on an elliptical (another claim sometimes made by stupid trainers).
Doing a "circuit training" program that consists of lighter weights and other types of hybrid movements WILL result in cardio training -- but it also won't provide the same increases in strength/mass as a lifting program--and it won't result in the same level of cardio training as a pure "cardio-based" program either. And finally, as again shown in the graph, it will result in an excess HR response that will throw off your HRM calorie readings.
And finally, as I have written about numerous times, the HR increase that occurs during strength training is due to a completely different mechanism than during cardio--so a heart rate of 130 during cardio will result in cardio training, but a heart rate of 130 during strength training will not.
None of these are "good" or "bad" --they just are. And it's something that EVERY "trainer" should know on day 1 of their job or they have no business charging people money.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
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so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.0 -
When you start moving to a more interval-based program, esp if those intervals start including movements that are not truly cardio movements, then it becomes increasingly difficult to keep consistent, accurate calorie counts for exercise. That just comes with the territory. With the increasing emphasis on these types of workouts, it becomes more difficult to follow the stock MFP paradigm. I personally think that at this point you have to go with more of an "intake"- based strategy, focused on consistently monitoring intake and then modifying based on results. It's not as neat and tidy that way, but I don't know of any other option because the other way is probably not going to work at all.
Thanks - I am slowly coming around to the same conclusion, so just looking for logic behind it as I am quite a slave to my statistics so I need to get that thinking turned on its head a bit.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
I guess if your goals fall more in the "osteoporosis and skinnyfat" category than "toned with strong bones" category.
Lifting helps you maintain lean mass while losing weight, as well as strengthening bones and joints and a host of other benefits. If you want to be thin and flabby, with brittle bones and weak joints, then absolutely avoid weightlifting.
The number on the scale is the only thing that matters. If I lose fat but gain muscle I will still be seen as a whale. So while weight lifting is good for some people. It appears it is useless for me.0 -
An interesting and somewhat amusing way to gauge your fitness improvement is to look at how many calories your HRM says you've burned while running 2 miles at a given speed at two different points in time. As your fitness improves, the calorie readout will go down even though actual calories burned don't.
This assumes you're at a constant weight, which may not be true.
I know my calorie burn has decreased as from my biggest size (well over 300lbs) compared to now I really can't get the same burns I used to (sigh lol)
Couple of things:
1. There should be some compensation from the fact that your increased fitness level allows you to work harder. Example: even at my heaviest, I was reasonably fit cardiovascularly. At one point in my wt loss, I set a PR for the time it took to burn 1000 calories on the treadmill. But my initial loss was so rapid (30 lb in first 2 mos--being out of work and having nothing to do but plan meals and work out helps a lot) that, even though I was running faster, I couldn't get within 2 min of that mark for weeks. Finally, I got my fitness/endurance level up to a point where, even though I was 60 pounds lighter, I smashed through the old record and beat it by 4+ minutes. Not everyone can get to that point, but it just shows you can offset the weight loss, at least partly.
2. You don't need as much of a deficit. By that I mean that it's a matter of scale. Losing weight at a smaller rate will be as noticeable on a smaller body as losing weight at a faster rate was on a larger one.
3. You don't weigh 300 lbs anymore -- that's a victory in itself! :drinker:0 -
The number on the scale is the only thing that matters.
That's literally horrifying. I think you need to take a step back and seriously reassess your goals now. If you don't, you will lose all the weight, then look at your ill health and thin but flabby body and think "how the heck did this happen, and how do I fix it?"0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong. 0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.
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so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Not gonna lie, that comes across as rationalization. Excuses to avoid something strange and new and therefore frightening. Do what you like though.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
So you don't think building muscle is important and will assist you in your weight loss goals?0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Why one extreme or another? Everything is an estimate, your suggested calorie intake, your calorie burns, even the food you eat no matter how diligently you log. This isn't about exact numbers. Being 100 calories over isn't going to derail your success.
Plenty of people has lost weight just fine using MFP estimates or their HRM. Some will subtract a certain percent of their estimates, like -20% or even half (I always suggest starting out win the higher number). If you don't see any change in the scale after several (ie more than 4 or 5), you adjust downwards.
The point of this thread wasnt to say HRMs are useless. It's just facts about how they work. Even if they are inaccurate, by eating only a portion of the calories, you should be fine.
No need to toss everything out.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
So you don't think building muscle is important and will assist you in your weight loss goals?
"The number on the scale is the only thing that matters."0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.
No one said HRMs are useless at all.0
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