Boy Scouts ban obese kids from Jamboree

Just to play devil's advocate, it is quite possible this has nothing to do with obesity so much as fear of litigation. Fat kid breaks his leg, parents sue boy scouts for negligence.

Now, someone gets hurts and parents try to sue, they have a better case to show a prudent measures were taken. Everyone sues everyone now a days, and especially those with deep pockets. So they have to protect themselves from liability.

Skinny people can break bones too.

Agreed. But a lawyer can make a better case for an obese one, saying it was not safe for someone overweight to be playing. To add to that even if a skinny kid breaks a leg or whatever, the fact that they took steps is now part of their defense.

A lawyer for a skinny kid can make a case that the effort was misguided and used poor metrics. BMI does not measure athletic ability or fitness level it (supposedly) measures body fat or body proportionality. Therefore, the metric used is completely worthless in terms of preventing liability.

BSA could prevent liability by claiming that it requires all kids to receive clearance from their primary care physician who presumably knows the kid's fitness and health status better than anyone else. If the kid's doctor clears him, no additional clearance is necessary. I don't see how this does anything to prevent lawsuits.

From a cost benefit perspective, I just don't see how this is a cost-effective means of limiting liability and costs. How many kids were likely to get hurt versus how many kids are likely to 1) sue for discrimination under this policy, 2) withdraw from BSA and contribute no more reveune to the organization, or 3) be upset and find other ways to cost the organization money through his actions?

All good points. Like I said, people sue people for everything these days. BSA has to decide whats best for them from a business perspective. They are not excluding people from joining the BSA, but participating in an event.

Are all physicians well versed in the Jamboree course to make a decision whether or not its safe?

Physicians are give a "Part D" of the physical form which describes the conditions that can be seen during a High-adventure activity. They are supposed to read it. I know many who just set it aside and don't even look at it while doing the physical.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/part_d.pdf

Guys, I am not saying that all kids should be allowed entry just because they have a wanker and can say the oath.

A detailed medical release, describing the activities involved, and signed by a doctor, should be sufficient.
Then if for some reason a kid can't do a particular event, he sits out. No special activities needed.

This shouldn't be so complicated. It is paperwork.

They don't even eed a wanker. This is the first year they have let Venturers in as participants. Girls 14-21 can be there as participants.

ET correct dropped letters.

This is another example of well meaning, but uninformed, people doing more harm than good. If the physical challenges are really that challenging then the only reasonable way to make the determination is to require a physical fitness evaluation. BMI is going to cut out some very fit but muscular kids. That said, I don't think excluding kids from the entire event makes any sense whatsoever.

I don't entirely disagree with your conclusion. I think a fitness test or doctors approval should work without an absolute BMI cap. It certainly would have been more politic.

But, do you think there are a significant number of physically fit 250+ pound teenagers? Because at BMI 40 that's the weight range we're talking about.

The number of them really isn't the point. The fact that this test is both over and under inclusive makes it a poorly designed test. Also, see my earlier comment regarding high school football players.

The risk is real and significant, not emotional fabrication in an ill-concieved attempt to legitimize a view point:


One of the risk factors for morbidly obese children is left ventricular hypertrophy which can result in sudden cardiac arrest.

Abstract

Obesity has become an increasingly important medical problem in children and adolescents. In national surveys from the 1960s to the 1990s, the prevalence of overweight in children grew from 5% to 11%. Outcomes related to childhood obesity include hypertension, type 2 diabetes mellitus, dyslipidemia, left ventricular hypertrophy, nonalcoholic steatohepatitis, obstructive sleep apnea, orthopedic problems, and psychosocial problems. Once considered rare, primary hypertension in children has become increasingly common in association with obesity and other risk factors, including a family history of hypertension and an ethnic predisposition to hypertensive disease. Obese children are at approximately a 3-fold higher risk for hypertension than nonobese children. In addition, the risk of hypertension in children increases across the entire range of body mass index (BMI) values and is not defined by a simple threshold effect. As in adults, a combination of factors including overactivity of the sympathetic nervous system (SNS), insulin resistance, and abnormalities in vascular structure and function may contribute to obesity-related hypertension in children. The benefits of weight loss for blood pressure reduction in children have been demonstrated in both observational and interventional studies. Obesity in childhood should be considered a chronic medical condition that is likely to require long-term management. Ultimately, prevention of obesity and its complications, including hypertension, is the goal.

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/40/4/441.short



Complications

Left ventricular hypertrophy changes both the structure and function of the chamber:

The enlarged muscle loses elasticity and stiffens, preventing the chamber from filling properly and leading to increased pressure in the heart.
The enlarged muscle tissue compresses its own blood vessels (coronary arteries) and may restrict its own supply of blood.
The overworked muscle weakens.
Complications that can occur as a result of these problems include:

Inability of your heart to pump enough blood to your body (heart failure)
Abnormal heart rhythm (arrhythmia)
Insufficient supply of oxygen to the heart (ischemic heart disease)
Interruption of blood supply to the heart (heart attack)
Sudden, unexpected loss of heart function, breathing and consciousness (sudden cardiac arrest)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/left-ventricular-hypertrophy/DS00680/METHOD=print&DSECTION=all

You know... they could have just created two separate programs with different levels of physical demand. Then, the kids could opt in to the program they wanted to perform, get a special badge for whichever they complete, and then the more physically demanding program would be something the kids could train and strive for the next year.

The Jamboree is completely optional. There are a million other boy scout camps all scouts can go to. think of the jamboree as for "all stars" or something. Not everyone is a starter or first string.

Also, while I don't think BMI is a great health indicate, keep in mind overweight starts at 25 and they are limiting kids with a BMI of over 40! that's 250 pounds for someone who is 5'6".

Lol I like how you just say it is completely optional like these kids don't aspire to go to nationals and if you are truly into scouting and are striving to become an eagle scout then you are striving to go to these events as much if not more than just going for 2 weeks to camp Lakota during the summer (this was my camp every summer while I was in the boy scouts) but national events was something I was always striving to attend. I was 5 ft 1 in. and 240 in the 6th grade, I was a 4 sport kid then and by my senior year I was just like Hoss... I played my junior and senior year on both lines (O and D) at 287 lbs. and ran distance in track and played baseball (catcher). I could run circles around kids half my size but my whole point is had they enforced this criteria back then I would have been excluded from attending those national events based on a BullSh#t BMI scale that had no bearing whatsoever on my ability to attend.... I would have no issues with some sort of PT testing, it would be no different than what scouting is all about which was teaching kids to take on challenges and complete them. Working towards the completion of merit badges was what made scouting fun.... but not allowing these kids the opportunity to attend based on a flawed chart is just wrong in my opinion..... Heck I have lost 312 lbs. and am still considered Obese category 1 by the BMI....

:noway:

ridiculous and discriminatory decision based off an inaccurate measurement tool

I'm still wondering why people think it's okay for their children to be so obese? If your child is fat, why haven't you done anything to help your child lose weight?

They should have two different camping events with varying types of exercise. I heard this camp included some high risk activities that might be dangerous to us who can't pull our weight like Rock Climbing and 50 mile hikes (suspect this has to be an error on the web site - that's awful long). They supposedly announce the whole thing a year in advance to let the kids get into shape so the kids have time to prepare. I think they are probably just making sure no one gets hurt as the activities are pretty tough. I know I don't think I'd be ready to handle some of those. The mistake is that they need a different camp event for kids who want to get in shape with light hikes and maybe activities that are due able. I'd say if you're heavy but fit, there probably were ways to pass a physical with a doc to get into this event. They are just trying to look out for the kids as this is not a typical camping event - it sounds like a high level sport activity.

Nope. 50 miles is prefectly understandable. Just not in a single day.

Yeah 50 miles is a bit much in one day at that age, I went through 17 weeks of OSET training in the US Army and on graduation week as part of our Fitness test we had to hike 16 miles in full BDU's carrying a 65 pound ruck sack in under 6 hours and we trained for17 weeks to be able to do that so I can't imagine 50 miles......

Yeah. I dount any of them would be laden with a 65 pound pack. They are probably a little more casually dressed as well. The capstone of the Hiking merit badge is a continuous 20 miler with only short rest stops and one meal stop. No time limits on that. Last time I took teh kids on teh 20 miler, it was about an 8-9 hour hike.

I'm still wondering why people think it's okay for their children to be so obese? If your child is fat, why haven't you done anything to help your child lose weight?

careful now...that kind of thinking gets people upset around here. they'd rather make excuses why their kids are fat.

You know... they could have just created two separate programs with different levels of physical demand. Then, the kids could opt in to the program they wanted to perform, get a special badge for whichever they complete, and then the more physically demanding program would be something the kids could train and strive for the next year.

THIS. BSA should be about building confidence in youths, not excluding them for participating in it.

Yeah, assuming there is funding and staffing for two programs, that's certainly a better option than:

most called for activities that would fit the capabilities of boys at all levels.

I've never been a scout. I've never been to a "jamboree".

But if it is intended to be a strenuous physical thing, I'd hate to see it reduced to suit a lowest (and unfortunately getting lower) common denominator population.

The leaders of The Boy Scouts of America are ill educated, hicks period. They have been biased against many people for decades. This news is the latest is stupidy & narrow minded rules.

My first to all who are critiquing this decision: How many of you have gone out and actually done any of this stuff?

My husband and I have been invovled in scouting locally for 15 years and we are a THREE EAGLE SCOUT family. My husband grew up in the as well, totaling over 30 yrs.

1. There is a health form that has to be signed off by the physicians and I, as Mom, HAD to make sure it was filled out correctly (that was MY RESPONSIBILITY).
2. There have been weight/height requirements on said health forms for many years now. No surprise there.

That having been said, I will make my main point.


We run a high adventure troop and go out into areas where we don't even have cell phone coverage. Evacuating ANY kid or adult from those situations is very difficult and we need to take into consideration the health and safety of the rescuers.

Not everyone (parents especially) wants to admit that their kids may not be able to do everythng that they want to do and would send them to an event where they may not only put the child's life at risk, but risk those who may have to help them. I have had to deal with these kids and it is very stressful for everyone concerned.

I see this as BSA trying to protect the safety and well being of ALL participants.

You don't have to belong to BSA, you don't have to support them, and if you don;t like it, you can always form a new group that will satisfy little egos (parent and child). Sometimes exclusion from an event the most powerful motivator.

Does BSA carry defibrillators around with them at Jamboree events?