Lifters, can you please explain what the difference...

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13

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  • WarriorReady
    WarriorReady Posts: 571 Member
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    Great info - I switch between high reps lower weight and the 5x5 program...
  • suelegal
    suelegal Posts: 1,282 Member
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    Great info here. In so I can read back over later.

    ditto!
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    Great info - I switch between high reps lower weight and the 5x5 program...

    The real fun begins when you progress a little bit further and you combine some max effort training with supporting exercises that are mid to high reps.
  • JerZRob
    JerZRob Posts: 68
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    Then you also can mix it up a little and do something like a Max-OT workout. I did it back in 2007 and had insane results. 4-6 reps every set. Performing 6-9 heavy sets for each muscle. Went through 4 12 week cycles for lack of a better word and my close friends swore I was on the juice.
  • reneelee
    reneelee Posts: 877 Member
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    5x5 is more focused on strength. 3x10 is more focused on hypertrophy/endurance. They both have their place, neither is useless, but they both do different things.

    Generally:

    <6 reps = strength

    8-12 reps = hypertrophy/size (assuming you're eating enough, don't worry about this if you're in a deficit)

    12-15 reps and above = endurance.

    Thank you, you made this easy to understand!
  • hypatia67
    hypatia67 Posts: 12
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    bump for later
  • Fitfully_me
    Fitfully_me Posts: 647 Member
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    Great information here.
    *Tagging*
  • lilawolf
    lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
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    If I were to do bulk/cut cycles would it make sense to do 3x10 during the bulk to build as much muscle as possible while the fuel/building blocks were there and then switch back to a 5x5 or 5/3/1 program during a cut to make the muscle I have as strong as possible?

    I am starting my first bulk September 2nd. Starting to transition up in 2-3 weeks.
  • wizzyocean
    wizzyocean Posts: 12 Member
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    bump for later
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    If I were to do bulk/cut cycles would it make sense to do 3x10 during the bulk to build as much muscle as possible while the fuel/building blocks were there and then switch back to a 5x5 or 5/3/1 program during a cut to make the muscle I have as strong as possible?

    I am starting my first bulk September 2nd. Starting to transition up in 2-3 weeks.

    Buy the new Beyond 5/3/1 ebook from Jim Wendler's site. There is a 5/3/1 Hypertrophy specific phase in the book, pretty cool. 3x10 is something crappy that football coaches use to have us do way back in the day because they didn't know ****. LOL.

    Edit: He also has a section that uses 5/3/1 and GVT plus some new approaches to Big But Boring, so you could definitely use some of the newer applications of 5/3/1 for hypertrophy.
  • pacosal
    pacosal Posts: 107 Member
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    bump
  • greenmonstergirl
    greenmonstergirl Posts: 619 Member
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    Bump...excellent information!!
  • syedsaad
    syedsaad Posts: 156 Member
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    bump for future comments already read till here
  • peeaanuut
    peeaanuut Posts: 359 Member
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    ok, I keep reading and Im confused. Im huge. Lots of layers of fat with tons of weight to lose. Should I be doing 5x5 or 3x10? Any muscle definition wnt show on me for about 2 years when I lose the weight so obviously that isnt a goal. I want to lose the weight.
  • NikoM5
    NikoM5 Posts: 488 Member
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    The problem with this question is that there is a lack of data using trained individuals. In untrained individuals studies have shown than rep range doesn't matter at all and furthermore high rep ranges (20-30) work better than lower rep ranges for hypertrophy. Ive spoken with the lead researcher of one of the most recent studies and pleaded with him to perform a similar study on trained individuals. He was actually open to the idea. And now I wait. :)

    For your purposes I think we're splitting hairs. As long as you are approaching near failure, you're doing it right. You could just hedge your bets and work from one end to the other. Say 3x10 of 100lb, that's equal to 3000 lbs moved. 5x5 of 150lb is also 3750 lbs moved. If you started at 3x10x100 and slowly moved towards 5x5x150 over a few weeks, you'd reduce your neurological adaptation to a given rep range and weight plus you'd increase your strength a little.
  • peeaanuut
    peeaanuut Posts: 359 Member
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    ok, so at this point, either way for me isnt going to make a huge difference as long as I am lifting along with the other stuff. Thank you for a good answer.
  • dondimitri
    dondimitri Posts: 245 Member
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    Yes. Either one is going to get you to 70%,80%,90%, whatever%, of what the other will in terms of strength or hypertrophy. It depends on the individuals response and the differences between the programs. Early on in your weightlifting career the most important thing is to get out there and do something. More complete understanding and refinement can occur as time goes by.

    Having said that I don't want to gloss over the fact that early on before you gain experience you are at risk for injury due to incorrect technique. In my very uneducated opinion you are at lower risk for injury with a higher rep/lower weight program early on.

    The best thing to do would be to have a friend/coach/trainer who is an experienced lifter work with you for awhile.
  • peeaanuut
    peeaanuut Posts: 359 Member
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    I have the technique from lifting before I got large but I have a training session to gloss back over the basics and to help me make movement adjustments for my size. I figured I would start lower weights for sure. I used to life in High School oh so many years but I feel like I am starting at zero again. lol.

    Thank you for the info.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    Keep in mind any trainer or serious lifter will tell you, there's no such thing as a guy with a big squat or bench, with chicken legs or small chest.

    That said, you should do both if you want the best of both worlds. Look into non-linear periodization or undulating periodization. Right now I'm doing Layne Norton's PHAT routine, and it's great.
  • halleymw
    halleymw Posts: 246 Member
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    I just switched from stronglifts to the the allpro beginner program because I had pretty much stalled out with stronglifts. Supposedly the allpro program is more "forgiving" on a cut. Too early to tell for sure, but I do like the program so far. Read through the forum posts to get a bunch of good info.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

    These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

    repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
    Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days.

    Note that he does stiff legged deads, not the regular deads on the stronglifts or SS program.
    Mike

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