Frustrated, even furious

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

I began a relatively dramatic lifestyle change back in May after a health scare (a small fibroid). After a couple of years of serious stress and stress-based over-eating, my weight had reached an all-time high at 194 lbs for 5'7". Since May I lost about about 29 lbs mainly by eating nice and "clean" (cooked from scratch, 99% non-processed foods, many organic), reducing portion sizes and exercising 4-5 times a week. During the first month, I remember eating very little because I had zero appetite because of the scare. Then I calmed down a little bit, my appetite came back and I began eating a bit more - but still quite little, always abstaining from more.

Per books, I have achieved a reasonable weight loss rate - but by doing what? The trouble is that I am ALWAYS in a state of hunger period.

I noticed that the ONLY way for me to lose ANY weight at ANY time is to seriously under-eat relative to what my appetite would ideally want. As in serious "calorie reduction".

If I have only one day of more decent eating, as in feeling my stomach reasonably full - I pile two pounds back in a heartbeat.

I do not count calories because it seems like a tremendous waste of time for me. I do, however, have very good understanding of nutrition in general, of calories per various portions, I know very well what foods are higher in calories - and I simply approximate. Generally speaking, I let myself be guided by my stomach.

I try to eat only when I am clearly hungry, I eat little portions and eat them slowly (savor them) and I stop way before I am close to feeling truly satisfied and full. As long as I do this, I lose weight - at a snail's pace, but the loss is steady.

As soon as I deviate just a bit from doing this - the scale goes up a couple of pounds.
This week I had two days of slightly less-than-orthodox eating (orthodoxy for me being what I described above). One day I ate a little extra at a department meeting at work (don't imagine any sort of serious overeating!!) and two days after that, husband and I went out for sushi and a coffee with a bit of cream on top...and bamm!! - two ponds gained this week, as if I had committed I don't know what kind of nutritional murder.

I just wonder whether I am doomed to a life of hunger and constant abstinence - Africa style.

As soon as I eat around 1200-1500 or a bit more calories ( more like normal people do on a daily basis), not only do I stop losing weight, but I immediately see two pounds piled back up in a heartbeat.

I cannot get any more disciplined than I already am: eating clean, eating little, and exercising. The fact that I am squeezing in a few exercising sessions a week is a miracle in and of itself given that I am a professional woman with a demanding career, two children with heavy school-related demands and needs, and a full cook-from-scratch schedule.

So exercising more, or harder, or eating even less is simply NOT an option.

I have at least 20 more pounds to shed to reach my ideal weight (around 142-144 lbs) and I just don't think I can do this much longer. Maybe just the fear of not having that fibroid grow could continue to keep me going like this.

I am just frustrated and I needed to rant - and to say that yes, yes, yes I am JEALOUS of all those skinny people who either eat to their heart's content or whose heart's content requires so little that munching on two salad leaves always seems to be just the right amount for them.

Briefly, I am tired of depriving myself when my body just darn wants FOOD, GOOD FOOD (carbs included!) - and not little, for that matter.
Where's a "pull my hair our" emoticon when you need one. :-(

Sarah0866 · August 2013

I understand the frustration, but I cannot begin to understand why you wouldn't lose when eating 1200-1500, specifically because I cannot see your food diary. If you open it, you might get more suggestions or make it easier to help you.

That said, hang in there. You're not going to create this deficit forever; it is only until you achieve your goal weight, and then you can increase your intake for maintenance. Also, 29 lbs of loss is pretty impressive, so you are more than definitely on the right track; if nothing else, rejoice in that

Koldnomore · August 2013

Since May I lost about about 29 lbs mainly by eating nice and "clean" (cooked from scratch, 99% non-processed foods, many organic), reducing portion sizes and exercising 4-5 times a week. During the first month, I remember eating very little because I had zero appetite because of the scare. Then I calmed down a little bit, my appetite came back and I began eating a bit more - but still quite little, always abstaining from more.

Sounds like you went into it and changed everything, cut back your intake dramatically and have managed to lose 29 lbs in less than 3 months by starving yourself. Understand 10 lbs a month is NOT normal..That is VERY aggressive..unless you happen to be over 400 lbs you are losing WAY too quickly. When you have only a little weight to lose - which by your ticker..maybe 30 lbs total you should be no where near 10 lbs per month loss.

Your goal is way too aggressive. Your body has now started down the path to adaptive thermogenisis. Your body refuses to lose weight because it has determined by the lack of nutrition that it has been getting the past few months that it needs to conserve its stores. Every extra calorie you give it will be stored because you have not been providing your body with enough fuel.

Set your goal to .5lbs/week loss and eat. You will gain weight for the first while until your body can re-establish a 'normal' level of nutrients. Unfortunately there is not really much way around that.

Read:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

I understand the frustration, but I cannot begin to understand why you wouldn't lose when eating 1200-1500, specifically because I cannot see your food diary. If you open it, you might get more suggestions or make it easier to help you.

That said, hang in there. You're not going to create this deficit forever; it is only until you achieve your goal weight, and then you can increase your intake for maintenance. Also, 29 lbs of loss is pretty impressive, so you are more than definitely on the right track; if nothing else, rejoice in that

I do lose when I am eating less (I think that normally I eat anywhere from 900-1200 calories) - but to be honest, this feels little to me. As soon as I eat more, I see it on the scale: not only do I stop losing weight but I IMMEDIATELY add two hard-lost pounds.

It is hard for me to keep a food journal because I eat a variety of foods and I just simply don't have time to record. Plus it makes everything so obsessive and focused on weight loss that it messes me up, given that I do have an addictive peronality.

When I started this abruptly due to that health scare, I committed to a lifestyle change, not to a diet. I promised myself I will simply learn to eat little and just practice "CR" (eat below the level of saturation) - ALWAYS.
Not just for weight loss and then revert back to filling my stomach every day.

This is HARD - darn hard, for the long term.
I have also noticed that as soon as I get over the threshold of eating to nourish and to remove serious hunger - and spill over into "eating for pleasure/because it's yummy" territory, then again the weight goes back up.

This is what happened to the sushi eating the other night. It was a darn good sushi place, my husband ordered quite enough for both of us and I ate to my heart's content, until I was full and happy. Of course some of that sushi had fried components, there was cream cheese involved - the jazz. The calories added up, though I had made a point that day of eating very little during the day knowing I was going to eat more when going out.

Still the scale taxed me right away.

diannethegeek · August 2013

This might be a beneficial read for you: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/993576-why-you-gain-weight-if-you-eat-more-than-your-cut

kiramaniac · August 2013

I do not count calories because it seems like a tremendous waste of time for me. I do, however, have very good understanding of nutrition in general, of calories per various portions, I know very well what foods are higher in calories - and I simply approximate. Generally speaking, I let myself be guided by my stomach.

If you aren't logging, then you don't really know what you are consuming. Your calories consumed could be more than you think; or you could be significantly under eating, and impacting your metabolism. No way to know without logging.

The scale also may show a higher number, but that doesn't mean this is body fat that has been added. And isn't that really what you should be concerned about?

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

In the past few weeks, I haven't lost much of anything. The thought of starting to eat more and seeing that scale go back up makes me sick, after so much struggle.

I started May 22 at 194 and here I am today, August 19, at 167 lbs (it was 165 but 2 were added back up this past week because I have been "oh, so bad").
This makes it about 27 pounds in 13 weeks. 2 lbs a week. I didn't think this was a terrible weight loss rate.

Question for all of you: say somebody continues with a relatively low calorie program. I understand that their body goes into thermogenesis at some point, but what if that person persists down this path? Will they eventually continue to lose weight or even a salad leaf will now turn them obese? Or ...you get the idea - I am just frustrated.

Feels like I can't win no matter what I do. Had I eaten more from the beginning, as you suggest, I would not have lost a thing. My body hangs on to weight and piles weight like crazy - unless you give it clearly less food than what my appetite requires.

It could just also be that my normal appetite is very large (I have always had the tendency to eat fast/to gulp and to use food for pleasure...and I see it in my daughter now :-((((( );

I may even be underestimating a bit the number of calories I am eating on a daily basis. They feel so little because I always have an empty stomach.

Again - just very jealous of naturally skinny people. :-(

Since May I lost about about 29 lbs mainly by eating nice and "clean" (cooked from scratch, 99% non-processed foods, many organic), reducing portion sizes and exercising 4-5 times a week. During the first month, I remember eating very little because I had zero appetite because of the scare. Then I calmed down a little bit, my appetite came back and I began eating a bit more - but still quite little, always abstaining from more.

Sounds like you went into it and changed everything, cut back your intake dramatically and have managed to lose 29 lbs in less than 3 months by starving yourself. Understand 10 lbs a month is NOT normal..That is VERY aggressive..unless you happen to be over 400 lbs you are losing WAY too quickly. When you have only a little weight to lose - which by your ticker..maybe 30 lbs total you should be no where near 10 lbs per month loss.

Your goal is way too aggressive. Your body has now started down the path to adaptive thermogenisis. Your body refuses to lose weight because it has determined by the lack of nutrition that it has been getting the past few months that it needs to conserve its stores. Every extra calorie you give it will be stored because you have not been providing your body with enough fuel.

Set your goal to .5lbs/week loss and eat. You will gain weight for the first while until your body can re-establish a 'normal' level of nutrients. Unfortunately there is not really much way around that.

Read:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

I am just want to be a normal person.
Normal people have their bodies regulated, they eat until they are not hungry anymore, they don't gain any weight and they never log.

I read a lot about the CR method - namely, always eating a little below your level of saturation.
This is something that can be done by listening to your stomach and that does not need daily logging - which for me is incredibly taxing, time-wise.

RM10003 · August 2013

I don't understand where your calorie counts are coming from if you're not logging.
I know you say you're busy, but we all are. I input all my recipes into MFP to get calorie counts and log from there.
Yes, it's annoying, and yes, I'd like to just eat without thinking about it. But this is what's working for me, so I make the time to do it.

Re:gaining weight after sushi, are you sure it wasn't just water retention from too much sodium?
Since I don't cook with much salt, I find that when I do eat at a restaurant I gain the next day, but then drop it in another day as I flush out the salt.

missshyeviolett · August 2013

You don't gain 2 pounds of fat overnight. It's damn near impossible. You gained water weight and if you drink more water and watch the sodium it'll go away again. You need to remember that unless you went 3500 cals over TDEE, you didn't gain weight.

You really need to track before you get furious though, because if you're too lazy to track (and dude...it's easy), you only have yourself to blame if you truly do gain weight.

MoreBean13 · August 2013

I would suggest counting calories. It's not a waste of time.

Muzzoozal · August 2013

It is very difficult for me to lose weight due to age and other factors. I was talking with my doctors about how frustrated I was after stopping a 12 can a day soda habit, eating less processed foods, getting small exercise, etc. He told me that whether or not I lost weight (and I was juts inside the obesity line) I was healthier. As I concentrated on being healthy, listening to my body when it was hungry - eating healthy when I felt hungry - I changed my mind-set. My goal was to be healthy. I went for 5 weeks without loosing a pound! Then I started the diary and really looked at how I ate. Finally I begin to loose 1 pond a week. Some weeks I gain a pond back but slowly I am going down. Better than that I have energy, can walk more than 10 minutes and am able to do so much more. The decision to not try to loose weight and to be healthy helped me give my body time to adjust and in it's own time it begin to loose the weight. During those five weeks I wasn't stressed or angry about the lack of weight loss. I hope this helps. You can be a healthier person and you are already doing things to be healthy

Macstraw · August 2013

I do not count calories because it seems like a tremendous waste of time for me. I do, however, have very good understanding of nutrition in general, of calories per various portions, I know very well what foods are higher in calories - and I simply approximate. Generally speaking, I let myself be guided by my stomach.

If you aren't logging, then you don't really know what you are consuming. Your calories consumed could be more than you think; or you could be significantly under eating, and impacting your metabolism. No way to know without logging.

The scale also may show a higher number, but that doesn't mean this is body fat that has been added. And isn't that really what you should be concerned about?

^This. There's no way you can accurately estimate your caloric intake without logging, I was amazed at how much higher my intake was than what I thought when I first started. Logging has helped me change not only how much I eat, but it makes me aware of WHAT I'm eating. The other good reason to log is to track your macros. I don't know how often you're weighing yourself, but if you weigh on the day after eating stuff high in sodium (sushi) you will retain fluid & that will show on the scale....

Not only does it not mean body fat has been added, it may mean you've burned some fat but added muscle which might show as additional poundage on the scale. I don't know how often you're working out or what kind of workouts you're doing, but if you're hitting it pretty hard this may also be a reason the scale # is going up...

Instead of getting angry, frustrated or anything else take a few minutes to look at the bigger picture. The scale is only one measurement, & it's not even the most accurate measure of the progress you're making. Do you take measurements of yourself (neck, waist, hips, etc.)? This is probably a more accurate way to track your progress because the more you replace fat with muscle the smaller the measurements will get even though the scale may not move as much as you like. One other thing to keep in mi9nd is that none of us put the weight all on in 3 months & we're not going to lose it in 3 months either. Adjust your timeframe so that the weight loss will be easier on your body, your diary will also allow you more calories per day so you won't feel as hungry all the time which will allow you more time to make the necessary changes that will stay in place permanently. Trying to lose all the weight in a very short time is usually never successful because once the weight is gone we go back to our old habits. If you take the longer path you will learn the changes that will keep the weight off when you transition into maintenance.....

Good luck & keep the faith!!!!

redheaddee · August 2013

I would suggest counting calories. It's not a waste of time.

QFT.
You CANNOT say with any certainty how much you are actually eating unless you weigh & track every bite. Until then, the rest is moot.

thesupremeforce · August 2013

I am just want to be a normal person.
Normal people have their bodies regulated, they eat until they are not hungry anymore, they don't gain any weight and they never log.

I read a lot about the CR method - namely, always eating a little below your level of saturation.
This is something that can be done by listening to your stomach and that does not need daily logging - which for me is incredibly taxing, time-wise.

That's quite the assumption. I doubt that it's true at all. Most people who eat what/when they want and don't' exercise appropriately gain weight eventually.

I also fail to see what's so time consuming about logging calories. Unless you're eating a lot of things that aren't in the database (and don't have nutritional data available), it's borderline effortless.

shannashannabobana · August 2013

I am just want to be a normal person.
Normal people have their bodies regulated, they eat until they are not hungry anymore, they don't gain any weight and they never log.

I saw a really interesting article the other day about satiation v. satiety. http://www.gnolls.org/tag/satiation-vs-satiety/

Without knowing what you are eating it's hard to offer suggestions. You may need more protein, more fat, to IF, more calories in general...Are you working out? That's a good way to add cal's. If you are starving, that is not sustainable.

You may also just need to eat at maintenance for a period of time until your body gets comfortable and then start losing again. Many people hit plateau's...

Turnaround2012 · August 2013

Don't give up - it is great that you are on the forum.!

--- counting Calories ---

I have actually counted calories on three different sites and MFP is the easiest by far. The even is a bar code option!

You are never going to be able to accurately measure what you are taking in unless you:

1. Count Calories
2. By a measuring scale
3. And / or Measuring cups etc.

-- Also check out how much you should be eating.. here are some great links and tutorials...

good post on BMR TDEE

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1016017-help-with-tdee-bmr-bmi

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

Great Calculators to figure out TDEE and BMR

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html

seif0068 · August 2013

As soon as I eat more, I see it on the scale: not only do I stop losing weight but I IMMEDIATELY add two hard-lost pounds.

You didn't actually gain two pounds. Your body is not magic; it cannot bend the rules of physics. What you did was ate something that is different than your normal routine and probably higher in sodium than what you typically eat, which resulted in you holding onto some extra water weight.

I have an addictive personality too and yes, I am a little obsessive about logging my food. But that's the biggest advice I can give you - you need to calculate your BMI and TDEE, set a reasonable goal (10 pounds/month is NOT reasonable), and then accurately log your intake so that you know what you're putting into your body. You are hungry all the time because 900 to 1200 calories is not enough food. If you eat at a moderate deficit, you will adjust so that you don't always feel hungry.

MoreBean13 · August 2013

I am just want to be a normal person.
Normal people have their bodies regulated, they eat until they are not hungry anymore, they don't gain any weight and they never log.

You can't just will yourself in to having appropriate hunger signals. Most of us that end up on this site don't have them. You count calories, lose the weight, get to maintenance, and THEN you work on developing intuitive eating. People that intuitively eat don't eat at a calorie deficit...how could you?

elenabrodet · August 2013

I totally feel the same way ! It is so hard to diet and eat healthy portions when your body is still screaming for more food cause your still so hungry. I have let myself fall off the wagon for the past few days but I hope to climb back on today . I really cant offer you any advice but just wanted to let you know you are not alone and that many of us feel the same way as you. Good luck just the same!

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

It is very difficult for me to lose weight due to age and other factors. I was talking with my doctors about how frustrated I was after stopping a 12 can a day soda habit, eating less processed foods, getting small exercise, etc. He told me that whether or not I lost weight (and I was juts inside the obesity line) I was healthier. As I concentrated on being healthy, listening to my body when it was hungry - eating healthy when I felt hungry - I changed my mind-set. My goal was to be healthy. I went for 5 weeks without loosing a pound! Then I started the diary and really looked at how I ate. Finally I begin to loose 1 pond a week. Some weeks I gain a pond back but slowly I am going down. Better than that I have energy, can walk more than 10 minutes and am able to do so much more. The decision to not try to loose weight and to be healthy helped me give my body time to adjust and in it's own time it begin to loose the weight. During those five weeks I wasn't stressed or angry about the lack of weight loss. I hope this helps. You can be a healthier person and you are already doing things to be healthy

My focus was 100% health+longevity and not looks - from the beginning.
This did help - a lot. I don't care how attractive people think I am, not even an oz, but I do care about sticking around for as long as possible. Moreover, the "C" word terrifies the living lights out of me - so that's where my motivations lie.
Of course, when you lose weight, it does help in the looks department too, if only for being able to find more decent clothing options and for those clothes to hang better on you; so that was the cherry on the cake - but definitely not the focus for me.

From the many books on nutrition, health and longevity that I have read over the years - as well as personal experience with people I know who lived on and on (my grandfather included, who lived to be 100), I learned that eating less, below saturation point, means living longer and being healthier. This was my only guiding principle so far.
This is also why I don't count calories and rely on stomach signals instead.

Trouble is that my body doesn't seem to like "eating less", below saturation point. It likes eating "more", sometimes even beyond saturation point. For years, I needed to eat A LOT!! - and used food to cope with anxiety, stress, fears, etc .

Both my grandfather and my mother-in-law (who is an amazingly healthy, flexible and thin 86 yo) have always been very moderate people with small appetites and a relative indifference to "delicious foods".

I am a creature of extremes, on the passionate and high-strung side, I love food and have a naturally large appetite. :-(

hookilau · August 2013

This might be a beneficial read for you: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/993576-why-you-gain-weight-if-you-eat-more-than-your-cut

Good call. That was a good read, makes sense too :drinker:

wisdomfromyou · August 2013

I have found that with the many cooked-from-scratch foods I eat it is simply not practical to calculate how may calories my portion represents. I don't eat food that comes from labeled packages and for me it would just take way, way to long to figure out exactly how many calories a certain bite has.

MinMin97 · August 2013

Yes, you could be more disciplined than you are....or maybe that's the wrong word....more temperate.
You oscillate wildly back and forth. You will get calmer as you keep working on it.
I think it would be helpful for you to focus on what you do right....notice all your improvements and celebrate them.

Also, quite frankly, I think there is a legitimate need to have celebration times of food, family, friends, fellowship and fun....eating and celebrating. It's gonna hit the spot! Then on the other days of your life you eat more purposefully, with good habits, with a deficit if called for. But to deny yourself, or feel guilty about when you do it, or indulging under the wrong circumstances will invariably produce frustration.

krisjohnson121 · August 2013

Without logging you do not know what you are consuming. I am sorry but it takes about 10 minutes to enter the days food into MFP if you are serious with this than take the time to log.

As others have said you need to redefine the healthy weight to lose. At 5'7 190 lbs is not huge - you need to cut 3500 calories a week to lose a lb - it is unreasonable and unhealthy to try to lose more than 2 lbs per week.

If you re starving yourself you will lose weight - but when you eat it will come back and the longer you continue this roller coaster the more out of whack your metabolism will become.

Start tracking! I would suggest going into maintenance mode for at least 2 weeks to get your metabolism back on track. You may gain - just accept it. After you reach a point where you are maintaining your weight while eating at maintenance. Create a reasonable goal for losing weight and eat to that goal.

RiannonC · August 2013

I am just want to be a normal person.
Normal people have their bodies regulated, they eat until they are not hungry anymore, they don't gain any weight and they never log.

I read a lot about the CR method - namely, always eating a little below your level of saturation.
This is something that can be done by listening to your stomach and that does not need daily logging - which for me is incredibly taxing, time-wise.

This is actually vastly untrue for most "normal" people in today's world. There may be the occasional skinny person who can eat to their heart's content and not gain, but usually if someone is fit and has a good body, it's because they've worked extremely hard to get and maintain it.

I am in the minority here, but I agree that while counting calories can be helpful, it is not always necessary for every person and that if you eat just till you're not hungry anymore, rather than eating till you're totally full, you will naturally lose weight. It sounds like this method is working for you, but you're a bit frustrated that it's so difficult?

It's probably harder for some than for others, and who knows what would happen if you started logging, or raised calories as some have suggested, but if it were me I would just continue doing what has already been working for you, and resign myself to the fact that yes, it's going to be difficult the whole time. Most things in life that are worth having are hard work. Maintaining my weight is hard for me too, I'm in the same boat as you are where I never eat till I'm totally full and pass up many things that would taste good because if I eat them, I'll probably gain weight. If I have a day where I slip up, usually I'm up 2 lbs the next day (which is usually water weight and goes away pretty quick if I get back on track). Sometimes I wish it were easier, but mostly I welcome the challenge.

Francl27 · August 2013

You got to weight your food and log your calories, no way around it. The $20 to buy a scale will be the best $20 you spend. If you don't want to do that, well, you can keep estimating and come back and say you still haven't lost weight in 2 months.

We're just offering you the easiest solution to your problem. I mean, we can tell you to eat 1500 calories a day until your metabolism is fixed some, but that won't help you, as you have no way of making sure you're eating those 1500 calories a day.

tawanda6329 · August 2013

Not sure how a small fibroid is a health scare for you. I've had one the size of a grapefruit and was able to function just fine. Also, not sure why you would ask for advice on a site that is built around counting calories when you do not count calories.

nxd10 · August 2013

I would suggest counting calories. It's not a waste of time.

It is SO not a waste of time.

Also, you will be less hungry if you eat more protein and eat slowly. Soup also helps in that it is filling and not that calorie dense.

Be patient with yourself.

SezxyStef · August 2013

When I started I was 205 appx and the same height...I lost 25lbs from January to June...and now using MFP my calories are 1360 to loose 1lb a week...and I eat my exercise calories back.

If I were to try and eat 900-1200 calories I would be starved all the time too...

Trust us when we say logging calories is not a waste of time and you are consuming more then you think if you are not weighing your food...even a measuring cup can be off depending on what the food is...

PRMinx · August 2013

As soon as I deviate just a bit from doing this - the scale goes up a couple of pounds.
This week I had two days of slightly less-than-orthodox eating (orthodoxy for me being what I described above). One day I ate a little extra at a department meeting at work (don't imagine any sort of serious overeating!!) and two days after that, husband and I went out for sushi and a coffee with a bit of cream on top...and bamm!! - two ponds gained this week, as if I had committed I don't know what kind of nutritional murder.

^This doesn't sound like weight gain to me. It sounds like bloating from all of the sodium in sushi (soy sauce).

Do you have a food scale? That might help with your accuracy. Also, I know you have a very demanding schedule, but exercising can really help with your stress. Can you make time in the early AM? Honestly, it's better to get up and get it done than to carry around all of this emotional stress.

Frustrated, even furious

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