Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?
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In the US, definitely. I have a BMI of 21 and I am often told that I do not need to lose weight and that I shouldn't worry. I do have fat to lose, and I'm not "thin". I'm a size 4 (US) and most people my age weigh more than me. It's bizarre to be told that I needn't worry just because I'm not what is presently seen as "normal".0
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exactly0
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Unfortunately, that is true. I am roughly 5foot 9 inches and 138 pounds and clearly have fat over my lower abdomen and have experienced similar comments. The fashion industry/ models glorifies "extremely skinny" and then the other side describes "normal" as what I would call slightly overweight.0
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In the US, definitely. I have a BMI of 21 and I am often told that I do not need to lose weight and that I shouldn't worry. I do have fat to lose, and I'm not "thin". I'm a size 4 (US) and most people my age weigh more than me. It's bizarre to be told that I needn't worry just because I'm not what is presently seen as "normal".
I get that as well! I think people don't understand the concept of skinny fat which is what I have been most of my life.0 -
I always feel topics like this are a little tricky, or rather more complicated than a straight "Yes because I see more fat people everywhere."
In theory, I'd say that yes, our concepts of normal are bigger than they once were. But then again, our current western first world society has large amounts of food available at low prices. We have large amounts of convenience food available, far more sedentary jobs and lifestyles, as well as appliances and whatnots that take out large amounts of manual labor from our lives.
However, it's not like 'back in the day' we were all magically slim and fit. I read somewhere that, in the UK at least, WWII rationing and government initiatives to health left the general population far more healthier than before the war. That is, enforced calorie restriction (for many), wide-spread nutrition and fitness awareness propagated during a time of war would go a long way to changing the way society looked. Especially as rationing didn't end until the 50's sometime.
I can imagine that before that, the general populace was malnourished. After that, we seem to have gotten back to that state of affairs with the addition of High fructose corn syrup et al.
Similarly, a society will tend to elevate the rare. Like, you can imagine that the Rubenesque body shape back in the day was so valued because it existed at a time when most people were starving.
We also tend to have weird attachments to 'days of yore'. It's true - the average waist measurement in the 1950's was around 25" (and apparently, Marilyn Monroe had a 22" waist according to her tailor. And, at 5'5.5" her weight ranged from 115-120 lbs. So, for someone the same height as her and currently weighing 142 lbs and a US size 8...yeah, go figure that out!). However, this is also during a time where women regularly wore corsets and skirts down to their knees. Also, the general idea of exercise was a lot different too. I recall reading how Elizabeth Taylor loathed exercise, and it was only in the 80's that she ever really got into it at all. But then again, perhaps people were a lot more active on a day-to-day basis.
I also think trying to ascertain the weight and measurements of Hollywood starlets is a pointless task. You can throw around 'size 0' accusations at them, but you don't actually know how much they weigh, what they look like when they're not working or how their body-shape compares to yours. I mean, I imagine I could stand next to Kim Kardashian right now and she'd still be slimmer than me.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say, and poorly at that, is I personally think it's a lot more complicated than a simple "Yes, people are bigger." (sorry, not much sleep last night!!!)
But, actually, what I think this thread is trying to say is why other people always go on about how "Noooooo, you don't need to lose weight." which probably has more to do with people's personal feelings of weight-loss, fears over eating disorders, social norms of eating and miss-information about diet and weight loss in general.
Ok, now I need to go take a nap!0 -
If I could delete this thread, I would.
Who cares about the size of other people? Some things just aren't worth discussing and the size of someone else's butt is one of those things.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people: Eleanor Roosevelt0 -
yes really.. she has no waist .
Waist definition is a result of frame structure and muscle definition, not necessarily fat. The model is, I believe, a UK10-12 (US 6-8), so hardly 'plus-size' as this campaign was marketed, and certainly not fat.
it s just personal opinion ..
a lot of thought will have gone into the model used and they could hardly use someone more curvy waisted and feminine because even uk youth doesnt look like that anymore and i dont doubt they settled on the "blocky" waisted look as they felt results more "believable and atainable" for their target market of women ...
I just see that blocky look as fat and my eyes would wander elsewhere ..
Wow. I don't know your age, so I am hoping that you are very young and do not have children yet, as with this attitude, they would most certainly grow up with poor body image. And your wife would be very self-conscious and worried about your eyes 'wandering elsewhere' if she gained a few pounds.0 -
I have a 4.5 year old son, Kynan. Everyone tells us he is "too small". It didn't bother us until he started school this year, when we noticed bc a lot of people pointed it out infact he is smaller than other kids, not a lot smaller, but smaller none the less.
So we talked to his doctor about it...this is what she said. "He is perfect. I just weighed him and measured him. He is average for his age, he is exactly where he should be for his weight and he is a little bit above average for his height. Please keep in mind that Kynan may in fact be smaller than the other kids in his class, that's okay actually that is better than okay. The numbers for child hood obesity, in fact obesity in all ages is alarming. Obesity is an epidemic...Chances are the people who keep pointing this out to you need to realize that in fact their children might be overweight."
It was at that moment that I realized that society's perception of NORMAL is not infact normal at all.
This is so true. A couple of weeks ago I was with my daughter and 9 month old granddaughter for her dr visit. She is a healthy little baby girl, with a round belly and arm and leg rolls, like little babies have, yet she is only in the 30% for her weight. My daughter was concerned with her being underweight, but then the dr pointed out that she was fine, it was just the other 70% of babies that were OVERweight. Today, it is normal for a 1 yr old to weigh 30 pounds or more. Yikes. This is why we have 10 yr olds topping the scale at 200 or more. This generation desperately needs better education on health and nutrition, and what is a healthy weight and lifestyle, but unfortunately, most of their education on this subject is taught by their overweight and sedentary parents.0 -
Fat or obese people with type 2 diabetes are more likely to survive! and same goes for fat or obese people who have heart attacks and strokes! There is a lot of hating here. I think it ends up hurting the hater most. Good luck raging haters! Love one another and stop blaming people. We need to be loving towards people no matter how tall, wide, or short or thin.0
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Fat or obese people with type 2 diabetes are more likely to survive! and same goes for fat or obese people who have heart attacks and strokes! There is a lot of hating here. I think it ends up hurting the hater most. Good luck raging haters! Love one another and stop blaming people. We need to be loving towards people no matter how tall, wide, or short or thin.
:noway: You are joking right? :noway:0 -
On the one hand, there are more obese people and does affect perception of what is normal body weight range. On the other hand, I really pity teenage girls. Anorexia seems to be far more common than it was. I was a teenage dieter, but I never felt obligated to drop below 115, much less to be under 100 pounds. Judging by what I see online and at the mall, the new skinny for teen girls isn't chubby, it's skeletal.0
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In the past week I have been told I that I was fat and I was told I was too skinny and I was losing my curves. People are either one extreme or the other...0
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And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go. People now complain if they get charged more on a plane cause they are fat. They complain if there is no 'flattering' clothing to fit them in their size. They complain then when exercise equipment is not built for their weight.
It's become a world of fat people, an nobody bats an eye at it.
I can not give you the issue with plus size models, they are like a size 8. But the rest I agree with. We did this to ourselves. If we do not care enough to make our bodies look good then the designers can not really help. Once you reach a certain point not much can be done. Most exercise equipment is made for a minimum of 250-300 lbs. If you are heavier than that go swimming or walking. It is a motivation issue and they are just looking for excuses.0 -
yes.0
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So many comments on this topic are mean-spirited. We should be focusing on health, not body weight alone. We've become a nation of unhealthy people, yes. This topic shows we've become a nation of superficial people more than anything.0
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I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
And then they touch them up to make them even skinnier. Hollywood is a barbie society. Basically people here tend to be either "Heroin Sheik" or "MORBIDLY OBESE". I think there are few people here that are actually a healthy body weight.0 -
And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go. People now complain if they get charged more on a plane cause they are fat. They complain if there is no 'flattering' clothing to fit them in their size. They complain then when exercise equipment is not built for their weight.
It's become a world of fat people, an nobody bats an eye at it.
How convenient that you feel so strongly about this AFTER losing ~84 pounds. This seems like a rather narrow and insensitive viewpoint. Better to shame people into changing their lifestyle I guess.0 -
In the US, definitely. I have a BMI of 21 and I am often told that I do not need to lose weight and that I shouldn't worry. I do have fat to lose, and I'm not "thin". I'm a size 4 (US) and most people my age weigh more than me. It's bizarre to be told that I needn't worry just because I'm not what is presently seen as "normal".
I'm getting the same exact thing. I'm a US size 6 and people are already telling me to stop losing weight. It's useless trying to explain that their perception of what is too thin is actually normal and healthy.0 -
Considering I can't go shopping in most "normal" department stores (Macy's, JC Penney, Kohl's, etc.) because their smallest misses size is too big for me and junior's is too young for me....yes, I'd say fat is the new normal. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs, and there's no way in hell I'm a size 0. That's not even a real number!
I had a pair of old business pants, Australian size 8 (US4?) that were bought years ago for band performances and only now fit me again. Deciding I needed new ones, I hit up Target, which is where I had purchased the old ones from.
All of them were too big, despite being labelled the same size.
Last year I grabbed a pair of size 10 shorts from Big W, which literally would not stay up when I put them on at home. I knew what size I was wearing and they were like ten bucks anyway so I didn't think to try them on in the store. When I compared them to the size 14 shorts I'd bought years before...yep, they were the same.
:noway:0 -
When I was young, generally the smallest women's clothing size was a 10. We're talking 20 or so years ago.
Then 8s became common.
Now 6s are in most lines
And some stores here even carry a 4.
That smallest size has always been about the same measurements. The 4 might be a little smaller, but the 6s now are roughly the equivalent of 10s 20 years ago.
I've worn a chain-store size14 since I was 11 years old (I grew/matured early). There's no way the 14 from 20 years ago is the same as a 14 now. They're what a 10 is now.
I sew a lot of my own clothes, and my measurements put me in a 18 sewing-pattern size. Which consistently fits the general trend of clothing sizes vanity-ising 2 sizes in that 20 years.0 -
And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.
Uh so...what are heavy people supposed to wear? Anyone over a size 14 should wear a mumu or a bed sheet? Wow. You think that will make someone keep a healthy weight? No, it will just make them home bound because they have no clothing fit for public. Shame on you.0 -
meanwhile..you did not tell us what the male comments were. on the edge of my seat.Totally agree, this is something I was only thinking about the other day.
There was a picture of an overweight girl on Facebook, posted from a page, it wasn't a friend or anything - she was dressed in sexy underwear and men and women were 'rating' her. She wasn't obese, but most definitly in the overweight category.
Anyway, all the women were coming on to say how refreshing it was to see a woman with 'curves' - I was amazed, she wasn't curvy, she was overweight - curves to me are a decent bum and boobs on a healthy weighing body, not a woman whose belly is hanging over the top of her knickers.
And funnily enough, all the women prasing her 'curves' looked to be overweight/obese themselves.
So yeah, I definitely think peoples perception of what a healthy weight should be has changed, if people think that someone her size was healthily curvy, they would obviously think a girl with body fat % in the athletic range would be anorexic, it's ridiculous!0 -
And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.
Uh so...what are heavy people supposed to wear? Anyone over a size 14 should wear a mumu or a bed sheet? Wow. You think that will make someone keep a healthy weight? No, it will just make them home bound because they have no clothing fit for public. Shame on you.
Perhaps if there were LESS of an emphasis on fat clothing stores it may encourage people to lose weight in order to wear better stuff.....
just sayin.0 -
There has definately been a change of attitude in the UK. As a teenager I was a size 10 but had 'chunky' thighs and I got comments about them. When I decided I needed to lose some weight recently as I was creeping steadily towards a size 14 everyone I mentioned it to said 'oh! you don't need to lose weight' and now that I've almost got back to my size 10s I get comments about not losing anymore or I'll look ill or old!
As for the clothes shops catering for the bigger people, I do think that very large (say over size 20) people should accept that their choices will be limited, and clothes less flattering.
But, how about the clothes shops looked at the other end of the scale for once. As a petite size 10 in my 40s I find buying clothes a real chore! I can't get away with wearing kids clothes anymore and all the decent petite shops assume you are a pensioner! Would be so much easier if I just piled on a few pounds..or grow a few inches taller...lol0 -
Emphasis on fat clothing stores? Hell last time I went to Kohls 95% is still dedicated to those who only wear up to Reg XL and then 4% is accessories and 1% is Plus Size.
I can't even find boots to fit my calves in any stores and I had big calves when I was smaller. I have to buy plus sized boots online.
I'm pretty disappointed by the posts that I'm reading about the word FAT being tossed around. Its such a derogatory word just like being told you look gross because you have muscle or being told you look like a waif because you are skinny. If you cared about the overweight community, you'd use the term overweight to describe the apparent dissatisfaction that you have with others who carry more weight than you.
And while some of you still look in the mirror in disgust with your non-overweight bodies, you seem to share you are more disgusted by those who walk through life happy with the way they are, even if its bigger than you.
I agree wholeheartedly over the health of our countries. Of course obesity is a problem and its a growing concern because it leads to medical issues but you're not going to convince people about it by throwing insults towards others.
And some overweight people are actually very healthy medically and if they're happy about it, let them be. Their bodies are no one else's business but their own and vice versa.
We all need to look in the mirror and decide that the only body we should be concerned with is our own unless you genuinely care about helping others lose weight and then others bodies might be your business.0 -
And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.
Uh so...what are heavy people supposed to wear? Anyone over a size 14 should wear a mumu or a bed sheet? Wow. You think that will make someone keep a healthy weight? No, it will just make them home bound because they have no clothing fit for public. Shame on you.
Perhaps if there were LESS of an emphasis on fat clothing stores it may encourage people to lose weight in order to wear better stuff.....
just sayin.
I'm going to assume that at 95kg you experienced plus size shopping, and I'd think you'd know that the clothing available to plus size women isn't exactly the sort of stuff most women would aspire to wear. In general, plus sized clothing is typically shoddy in its design and execution, is not flattering, and you pay through the nose for it. I know the general state of affairs with plus sized clothing motivated me to get back to normal sizes.0 -
Perhaps if there were LESS of an emphasis on fat clothing stores it may encourage people to lose weight in order to wear better stuff.....
just sayin.
If looking at my big *kitten* and flabby belly naked in the mirror didn't motivate me to lose weight, a lack of fashionable clothing options sure as hell wasn't gonna do it. Also...people telling me I was fat, pain in my knees and back, high blood pressure, prediabetes, etc etc etc. I lived with those things for years. We don't change until we are ready to, and if all we could wear was sweatpants and t-shirts or mumus that's what we'd wear until we were finally ready to change.
Just sayin.0 -
And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.
Uh so...what are heavy people supposed to wear? Anyone over a size 14 should wear a mumu or a bed sheet? Wow. You think that will make someone keep a healthy weight? No, it will just make them home bound because they have no clothing fit for public. Shame on you.
Perhaps if there were LESS of an emphasis on fat clothing stores it may encourage people to lose weight in order to wear better stuff.....
just sayin.
I'm just saying that I don't know where you are seeing these "fat" stores everywhere because I was plus sized & couldn't find any cute jeans that fit right anywhere at a decent price! And that did motivate me to now wear a size 9/10 jr. Every person deserves to be treated with respect & as a human being. Every person should be able to find clothes that fit them. I still see way cuter & better fit clothes in regular sizes, so to say that plus size clothes = regular size clothes in fashion, comfort, design? You are wrong (at least here in Oklahoma, USA).0 -
Emphasis on fat clothing stores? Hell last time I went to Kohls 95% is still dedicated to those who only wear up to Reg XL and then 4% is accessories and 1% is Plus Size.
I can't even find boots to fit my calves in any stores and I had big calves when I was smaller. I have to buy plus sized boots online.
I'm pretty disappointed by the posts that I'm reading about the word FAT being tossed around. Its such a derogatory word just like being told you look gross because you have muscle or being told you look like a waif because you are skinny. If you cared about the overweight community, you'd use the term overweight to describe the apparent dissatisfaction that you have with others who carry more weight than you.
And while some of you still look in the mirror in disgust with your non-overweight bodies, you seem to share you are more disgusted by those who walk through life happy with the way they are, even if its bigger than you.
I agree wholeheartedly over the health of our countries. Of course obesity is a problem and its a growing concern because it leads to medical issues but you're not going to convince people about it by throwing insults towards others.
And some overweight people are actually very healthy medically and if they're happy about it, let them be. Their bodies are no one else's business but their own and vice versa.
We all need to look in the mirror and decide that the only body we should be concerned with is our own unless you genuinely care about helping others lose weight and then others bodies might be your business.
^^^ This.0 -
But, how about the clothes shops looked at the other end of the scale for once. As a petite size 10 in my 40s I find buying clothes a real chore! I can't get away with wearing kids clothes anymore and all the decent petite shops assume you are a pensioner! Would be so much easier if I just piled on a few pounds..or grow a few inches taller...lol
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I am a petite size 9/10 & have to shop in the juniors section at stores (5"1' & 25 years old). I feel too old to be in the juniors but the petite section in most stores are way to small (2/4). But hey that's what's motivating me to get into a size 7.0
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