Sugar is scary..

I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.

For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.

As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.

Edited for typos.

Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.

No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.

The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.

Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.

I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.

For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.

As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.

Edited for typos.

Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.

No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.

The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.

Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.

You're trying to use an anecdotal example of someone with a serious illness and trying to apply that to the average, healthy population? Diabetes is a serious disease that changes the way the human body operates.

And for the record, insulin moves glucose into muscles, organs, and the liver. The liver will convert glucose into glycerol once all glycogen stores are full. The glycerols get combined into triglycerides, and then the triglycerides transport themselves to adipose cells. Insulin has nothing to do with it.

Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?

:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?

It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.

Disagree - how do you think a state of ketoacidosis occurs? Its from the body being forced to survive off ketones. Ketosis is the body's emergency back up plan so the brain doesn't starve due to the blood brain barrier during times when glucose is scarce. I've seen many an animal deteriorate from ketosis into ketoacidosis due to an unobserved prolonged state of ketogenesis.

I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.

For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.

As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.

Edited for typos.

Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.

No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.

The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.

Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.

You're trying to use an anecdotal example of someone with a serious illness and trying to apply that to the average, healthy population? Diabetes is a serious disease that changes the way the human body operates.

And for the record, insulin moves glucose into muscles, organs, and the liver. The liver will convert glucose into glycerol once all glycogen stores are full. The glycerols get combined into triglycerides, and then the triglycerides transport themselves to adipose cells. Insulin has nothing to do with it.

No, diabetic anorexia is a true illness - not anecdotal at all. My example was anecdotal. I'm not using diabetes to explain that sugar is bad - I am using it to point out that sugar, insulin and fat are tied together. Insulin is not just used in diabetics - we all have insulin. My point is how would withholding insulin to prevent weight gain work in this disease if insulin, fat cells and sugar are NOT related. So based on what you said, with holding insulin would not affect weight, but this is not true. Diabetic anorexia is the proof of this. Diabetic anorexia would only work in the T1 diabetic - where there is no insulin. But it is an example of how insulin works.

So you are essentially saying that sugar would not affect fat - and I am presenting an opposing case where it does.

"Once glucose is inside the liver, glucose is phosphorylated into glucose-6-phosphate, or G6P. G6P is further metabolized into triglycerides, fatty acids, glycogen or energy. Glycogen is the form in which the body stores glucose. The liver can only store about 100 g of glucose in the form of glycogen. The muscles also store glycogen. Muscles can store approximately 500 g of glycogen. Because of the limited storage areas, any carbohydrates that are consumed beyond the storage capacity are converted to and stored as fat. There is practically no limit on how many calories the body can store as fat."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/264767-how-is-excess-glucose-stored/#ixzz2gyApB0pL

From my understanding ALL excess energy gets stored as fat.

Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?

:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?

It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.

Disagree - how do you think a state of ketoacidosis occurs? Its from the body being forced to survive off ketones. Ketosis is the body's emergency back up plan so the brain doesn't starve due to the blood brain barrier during times when glucose is scarce. I've seen many an animal deteriorate from ketosis into ketoacidosis due to an unobserved prolonged state of ketogenesis.

"Ketosis Vs. Ketoacidosis

If you follow a diet that limits your daily carb intake below 50 g a day, it will promote ketosis. Ketosis simply means that your body mostly utilizes fat and ketones, which correspond to a byproduct of fat burning, as its principal source of energy instead of utilizing sugar derived from carbohydrates. Ketosis is not dangerous and allows your body to better control your blood sugar levels and diabetes, while losing weight if you need to. Ketoacidosis, on the other hand, only happens in diabetics treated with insulin injection when their blood sugar levels gets totally out of control. A diabetic in ketoacidosis has blood ketone levels more than 10 times higher the levels seen in ketosis. Ketoacidosis is a serious condition that requires immediate medical attention."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/495714-atkins-and-diabetic-ketosis/#ixzz2gyDBRwQV

ketoacidosis requires a saturation of ketones - not very likely to occur. I've taken care of 1000's of patients - and never seen a state of ketoacidosis without the presence of hyperglycemia. I wouldn't declare it impossible to achieve on low carb diet - but unlikely. Still, ketosis and ketoacisosis remain separate things - although possibly related.

http://www.themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/diabetic-ketoacidosis.php

Truth don't lie, no matter how old it is....

Excess sugar beyond what your body burns is bad. If you burn it, it's gone. It's what doesn't get burned that's the problem. Too much in your bloodstream can cause problems and the excess ends up getting stored as fat.

Just keep your sugar intake within your calorie limits and eat a balanced diet and you'll be fine.

Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?

:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?

It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.

Disagree - how do you think a state of ketoacidosis occurs? Its from the body being forced to survive off ketones. Ketosis is the body's emergency back up plan so the brain doesn't starve due to the blood brain barrier during times when glucose is scarce. I've seen many an animal deteriorate from ketosis into ketoacidosis due to an unobserved prolonged state of ketogenesis.

"Ketosis Vs. Ketoacidosis

If you follow a diet that limits your daily carb intake below 50 g a day, it will promote ketosis. Ketosis simply means that your body mostly utilizes fat and ketones, which correspond to a byproduct of fat burning, as its principal source of energy instead of utilizing sugar derived from carbohydrates. Ketosis is not dangerous and allows your body to better control your blood sugar levels and diabetes, while losing weight if you need to. Ketoacidosis, on the other hand, only happens in diabetics treated with insulin injection when their blood sugar levels gets totally out of control. A diabetic in ketoacidosis has blood ketone levels more than 10 times higher the levels seen in ketosis. Ketoacidosis is a serious condition that requires immediate medical attention."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/495714-atkins-and-diabetic-ketosis/#ixzz2gyDBRwQV

ketoacidosis requires a saturation of ketones - not very likely to occur. I've taken care of 1000's of patients - and never seen a state of ketoacidosis without the presence of hyperglycemia. I wouldn't declare it impossible to achieve on low carb diet - but unlikely. Still, ketosis and ketoacisosis remain separate things - although possibly related.

http://www.themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/diabetic-ketoacidosis.php

Right you are, thank you. I just thought it was a tad reckless outright stating that the brain will be just fine with just ketones, where as it is definatedly true that an underlying pathology is normally required before it goes into crisis times.

Thanks again - time to leave this thread alone ;-)