Why is this even remotely controversial?
Replies
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Well she can't exactly help looking sexy if she is sexy, now can she? If she wasn't in an intentionally provocative pose or outfit, then it is just her natural sexiness that you're basing that on.
This is my problem too. Some days I get tired of feeling like a big fatty slab of sexy meat.0 -
I never met any obese people who have excuses. we dont need to explain ourselves to any of you. We don't owe you anything.
My sarcasmometer didn't go off on this one...
...which means either you're serious...
...or I need to have this usually remarkably accurate piece of expensive machinery recalibrated.
Which is it?
I was also confused by that post. The comment managed to go mostly unnoticed (surprisingly). I hope it was sarcasm....0 -
I still dont see the problem with this picture. Even after trying really hard.
The message I see.
Having a few young children and a busy life is not a valid excuse for not losing weight and getting into shape...if that is something you really want.
I see nothing wrong with that message. *shrug*
If its not something your really want then it does not apply to you. Move on.
If you dont think it is possible then dont try. Move on.
Everything else about what she is wearing or how she must be neglecting her kids is just ridiculous nonsense. Move on.0 -
http://www.mariakang.com/category/fitness/
It's sad that I've seen similar stories in the success threads and her story is being ripped apart and her success torn down because she chose to try to do a fitspo type photo.
Why do people on MFP choose to belittle this story but will scold anyone who does what they do to those who post fitspo pictures on the MFP Fitspiration thread or/and post their success stories in the Success area?
Kang invited comments of all types when she posed a question with the word "your" and ending in excuse0 -
I still dont see the problem with this picture. Even after trying really hard.
The message I see.
Having a few young children and a busy life is not a valid excuse for not losing weight and getting into shape...if you that is something you really want.
I see nothing wrong with that message. *shrug*
If its not something your really want then it does not apply to you. Move on.
If you dont think it is possible then dont try. Move on.
Everything else about what she is wearing or how she must be neglecting her kids is just ridiculous nonsense. Move on.
I could not have stated how I feel any better than that. (Slow clap)0 -
I really don't like some of the faux-feminists take on this: 'she's letting the side down projecting this image'.
Women can wear whatever the hell they want. If they want to project their their sexuality they can. If they want to wrap their body in a burkha and hide it from the world they can. Clothes are morally neutral. This feminism-lite approach to appearance is just internalised hate dressed up as gender politics.
Feminism is about freedom and equality and the movement has more pressing issues in the world than someone's outfit - for example child marriage, and the unacceptably high rates of sexual assault and domestic violence.
I think you missed the "feminist point" on this. Have you been reading too many Miley Cyrus articles?
How many Miley Cyrus articles is too many? So what do you mean, what do you see as the "feminist point"? I just don't like women criticising other women's clothing choices and saying that's feminism. That's not MY feminism anyway.
I've read too many. I can't stand to look at another picture of that girl. But the reason I said that is because that's what's being argued in that whole controversy. None of the articles I've read about this or posts I've seen about this have at all talked about her sexuality. It's mostly been about fat shaming or unrealistic expectations or telling women that they need to focus on looking like she does. Sorry if I missed the few random posts talking about her clothes, but you're really focusing on a very small part of the commentary surrounding this and saying that's the "Feminist point of view" being portrayed. My feminist commentary on this topic has nothing at all to do with her sexuality or what clothes she chooses to wear. That's why I see your comment as pretty silly and irrelevant.
It wasn't directed at you - there were a few posts earlier saying the poster was encouraging women to be victimised. The only thing that makes a victim is an abuser.0 -
I think her body and fitness level are absolutely amazing. She is obviously very dedicated and that is super awesome. I know that I (or anyone, really) can lose weight if we put in the work. But it is not realistic for me to think that I will look like her- pregnancy causes stretch marks for some women, loose skin that doesn't completely go away after pregnancy, and changes in hips/breasts.... that stuff just genetically happens to some women and not others. I can still be in the best shape possible for me after pregnancy, but I cant look just like her. But as far as her message and photo- kudos to her- she is a beautiful woman.0
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There is a difference. A PhD is not feasible for all people, perhaps not even most.I wonder how people would react to someone waving a PhD certificate around saying "What's your excuse?"
(...)
Reaching and maintaining a healthy weight is.
For what it's worth, I don't think she looked all that hot in the original image (elbows too pointy) it was clearly chosen so as to highlight her fitness level rather than her attractiveness.
That swimsuit pic on the other hand
A PhD is mostly hard work in the same way that achieving a certain body condition is hard work.
I wouldn't post a picture of my graduation along side my kids/husband/dogs/hamster and say 'what's your excuse" because it seems a bit big headed and assumes that everyone should have the same goals as me.0 -
Just to expand a bit more on some of the issues around working out at (the $ excuse, the age excuse)..
There is *great* individual variability in orthopaedic health, especially if you're over a certain age. Some wear and tear is normal. But formerly sedentary people - ie the obese - are more injury-prone than people who never put xx or xxx lbs of extra weight on their joints. And often, by the time they start worrying about it in their 30s-40s, age related changes to bones and ligaments have already started. Sometimes, there are hidden issues with biomechanics that haven't come up.
Then, lots of these overweight people who've been on their butts for years get all motivated, and jump head first into running or some plyometric scene (that is exactly what I did).
The free or low-cost stuff that tends to appeal to highly motivated overweight people, by the way, is usually something high impact like that (eg Insanity or whatever), that can deliver, in theory, *because* it's high impact and high intensity. And that message gets through to motivated people because it's either got tons of marketing or is the prevailing common sense. It takes knowledge and experience to know how to manage macros, how to build a balanced fitness program that includes strength training, etc. That doesn't happen immediately, usually.
Add to that that maybe, highly motivated overweight/obese people who've been sedentary for ages might not have the natural body awareness or athletic background to do it right.
It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to look (and stay) that hot without hurting yourself, even for free. Access to fitness knowledge is a kind of privilege - whether it's because you've got good healthy bones and normal biomechanics, or you've got a knack for learning form, or because you grew up in a family that valued and invested in physical activity, so have a long athletic history from which to draw.
Most people, especially older folks, could *really* do with good physical education from eg a trainer, and a gym (because yeah you can run every day, but cross-training is better, and machines cost money; outdoor hobbies other than running or walking cost money; weights cost money). Physical therapy costs money, too (boy does it ever).0 -
Just to expand a bit more on some of the issues around working out at (the $ excuse, the age excuse)..
There is *great* individual variability in orthopaedic health, especially if you're over a certain age. Some wear and tear is normal. But formerly sedentary people - ie the obese - are more injury-prone than people who never put xx or xxx lbs of extra weight on their joints. And often, by the time they start worrying about it in their 30s-40s, age related changes to bones and ligaments have already started. Sometimes, there are hidden issues with biomechanics that haven't come up.
Then, lots of these overweight people who've been on their butts for years get all motivated, and jump head first into running or some plyometric scene (that is exactly what I did).
The free or low-cost stuff that tends to appeal to highly motivated overweight people, by the way, is usually something high impact like that (eg Insanity or whatever), that can deliver, in theory, *because* it's high impact and high intensity. And that message gets through to motivated people because it's either got tons of marketing or is the prevailing common sense. It takes knowledge and experience to know how to manage macros, how to build a balanced fitness program that includes strength training, etc. That doesn't happen immediately, usually.
Add to that that maybe, highly motivated overweight/obese people who've been sedentary for ages might not have the natural body awareness or athletic background to do it right.
It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to look (and stay) that hot without hurting yourself, even for free. Access to fitness knowledge is a kind of privilege - whether it's because you've got good healthy bones and normal biomechanics, or you've got a knack for learning form, or because you grew up in a family that valued and invested in physical activity, so have a long athletic history from which to draw.
Most people, especially older folks, could *really* do with good physical education from eg a trainer, and a gym (because yeah you can run every day, but cross-training is better, and machines cost money; outdoor hobbies other than running or walking cost money; weights cost money). Physical therapy costs money, too (boy does it ever).
This is true. There was a post the other day from a lady who had ended up in a wheelchair with a leg paralysed after going 'fat to fit' with cardio. I was working with a young girl today who has two ruptured discs, from years of running 6 nights a week. She's only 27.0 -
Did you actually TRY to understand the point I was trying to make, or were you just looking for something to comment on?Publicity stunt, indeed!!!
Someone knows how to push the right buttons to get people talking.
1. Mixing sexy and babies just creeps some people out (me for one). I'm not saying that she looks skanky, but she ain't exactly dressed like someone loading up the minivan to schlep her kids to the grocery store. The photo makes the kids look like props.
2. Someone else mentioned the text. I agree - Yeah, "if I can do it, so can you!" sounds much less b¡tchy than her hands on her hips, saying "What's your excuse?" It's confrontational - on purpose.
Slick marketing product there. I imagine she paid a pretty penny for it.
DRESS CODE VIOLATION!!!
CALL CPS!!!
I did understand the point you were trying to make, it's just that it was a silly argument. Of course her kids were being used as part of the picture...that was kind of the point of the whole thing. She had a goal, and met it...with kids. People take pictures of kids all the time...and even *gasp* use them in advertisements! Are you complaining about those?
As for the tone of the argument...I don't even...seriously? She's being too confrontational? Do you want participation medals or something for trying your best and not hitting your goals?
Most mothers who take pictures with their children are actually looking at or making physical contact with their children.
I'm not saying she's a bad person, a bad mother, a bad anything. I'm saying that this image is an example of good, slick marketing.
Good. Marketing is meant to help reach people. We want to reach people. To you know... get them working towards fitness... don't we? Is that still cool? That why we here still? Was there a memo? Confused now.
Don't market healthy lifestyles.0 -
No one likes a person who's being condescending and smug. Just an FYI for your future knowledge.
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Hm. I like the picture, don't get the problem or why people are being so sensitive about it.
And yes, she may be half naked, but I don't get people's problems with a woman's body. Some people seem to be bothered by the fact that she's half naked WITH her kids in the photo. Which I don't get the problem with that either, a body is a natural beautiful thing. We were all born naked right!?0 -
I was more disturbed about the Time Magazine photo of the woman being suckled by a 5 year old on a stool.
BINGO! You hit the nail on the head!!
It gives some people some of the same feelings that the "milk mom" did.
Not exactly the same, but I'm willing to bet that most of her detractors are female and mothers. Not all of them fat, even.
I'm putting in my 2 cents as to the original poster's question... Basically, "what's icky about this picture?"
Uh. Er....some women in impoverished countries breast feed their children at that age. Do you think that's icky? Breast milk is free for mothers and high in nutrients and protective immunity. Breast feeding is natural and boys aren't able to even have an erection until they go through puberty and aren't sexual at the age of six. It's looked down on in our society but we also cut off parts of our male children's genitalia for funsies (it really has little health benefit).
Judgmental much, lady? Maybe you should inform that judgement.
I made no comment on breast feeding or even my personal opinion of the breast feeding issue.
I made no comment on my personal opinion of the photo in question, besides the fact that trying to look sexy with children around your feet creeps me out.
I simply tried to explain why some people may find the image along with the text, "creepy".
She doesn't even look provocative. She's just kneeling because her children are tiny. :huh:
I didn't say 'provocative', I said 'sexy'.
What's wrong with being a sexy mom? This is getting more ridiculous by the minute...0 -
There is a difference. A PhD is not feasible for all people, perhaps not even most.I wonder how people would react to someone waving a PhD certificate around saying "What's your excuse?"
(...)
Reaching and maintaining a healthy weight is.
For what it's worth, I don't think she looked all that hot in the original image (elbows too pointy) it was clearly chosen so as to highlight her fitness level rather than her attractiveness.
That swimsuit pic on the other hand
A PhD is mostly hard work in the same way that achieving a certain body condition is hard work.
I wouldn't post a picture of my graduation along side my kids/husband/dogs/hamster and say 'what's your excuse" because it seems a bit big headed and assumes that everyone should have the same goals as me.
Um ... In addition to the work, it also requires a certain amount of intelligence to acquire a PhD ... The fact that you are equating the level of intelligence it requires to obtain a PhD, to the level of intelligence and amount of work it takes to get up off your butt and exercise and not shovel crap into your mouth, is laughable ...0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
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Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
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Men aren't that catty.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
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it is not even comparable, dudes are not expected to invest the same amount of time in childrearing; their bodies aren't completely messed with by the invasion of another creature, there is not the same unreasonable expectation to maintain youthful beauty all through life, and the accusation of laziness if that doesn't happen (and men are thought attractive into their later years even if they don't work out), etc etc etc.
it is not problematic because women are "catty", jesus effing.
if a male cover model had a pretty face, though, some men might cut him down by calling him a pretty boy (and taking that where it often goes). if he was more rugged looking and tough, or else just cool, they would want to be more like him.0 -
Mrow?0
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maybe i was unfair, maybe you have some definition of 'catty' that isn't familiar to me. i thought i just sounded peeved?0
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maybe i was unfair, maybe you have some definition of 'catty' that isn't familiar to me. i thought i just sounded peeved?
I was actually just messing with you and the catty comment was mostly to get a response.
However, there is a lot of truth to women being much harsher with other women than men are with either women or other men.0 -
Are we seriously wondering why this is controversial, in a world where men take drugs to give themselves erections because they are no longer attracted to their partners?
It's controversial because she's hot and no pill would be required.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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I don't think it has the same import... Women are still assumed to be the primary caregivers so a man having children isn't seen by many as an obstacle to him working out etc (not to mention not going through the pregnancy, weight gain, recovery etc). For example (and unfortunately for me) when my husband goes to the gym after work in his mind it's just him coming home late from work but when I go to the gym and leave the baby with him, he's "babysitting". He does it happily but it's still seen as a favour on his part, whereas when I'm watching the baby while HE'S at the gym, I'm just doing "my job"..0 -
Oh wow. People will make a huge deal out of everything. I've seen "what's your excuse?" inspirational posters countless times before.
Soo..let's see, what's different about this one?
1. She is a woman. - "She wants us to look like that, threat to feminism!" No. Feminists who see threats in everything and anything, and choose to focus on small, irrelevant (sometimes imagined)issues make the rest of us look bad. I am a feminist, and i am in no way offended by this image. It shows a strong willed woman, imo.
2. She's a mom. - "She must be a terrible mother if she takes the time to work out." That is absolutely rude. You don't stop being your own person just because you have kids. At least you shouldn't.
3. She is physically attractive.and wears make-up and workout clothes. "She is a sloot. Her babies have different dads." Talk about being a catty b*tch.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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I don't think it has the same import... Women are still assumed to be the primary caregivers so a man having children isn't seen by many as an obstacle to him working out etc (not to mention not going through the pregnancy, weight gain, recovery etc). For example (and unfortunately for me) when my husband goes to the gym after work in his mind it's just him coming home late from work but when I go to the gym and leave the baby with him, he's "babysitting". He does it happily but it's still seen as a favour on his part, whereas when I'm watching the baby while HE'S at the gym, I'm just doing "my job"..
THIS -- inequality of caregiving/domestic/economic responsibilities & societal expectations - is why feminists should be annoyed, not that woman's hotness (i don't think?), which is basically indisputable. though i think someone found fault with her elbows (?!?).
@wheird - you got one, lol - it just was not funny, because i am not a haha person at all about these sorts of things. i would jest about pancakes probably any time.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think it has the same import... Women are still assumed to be the primary caregivers so a man having children isn't seen by many as an obstacle to him working out etc (not to mention not going through the pregnancy, weight gain, recovery etc). For example (and unfortunately for me) when my husband goes to the gym after work in his mind it's just him coming home late from work but when I go to the gym and leave the baby with him, he's "babysitting". He does it happily but it's still seen as a favour on his part, whereas when I'm watching the baby while HE'S at the gym, I'm just doing "my job"..
THIS -- inequality of caregiving/domestic/economic responsibilities & societal expectations - is why feminists should be annoyed, not that woman's hotness (i don't think?), which is basically indisputable. though i think someone found fault with her elbows (?!?).
@wheird - you got one, lol - it just was not funny, because i am not a haha person at all about these sorts of things. i would jest about pancakes probably any time.
That cuts both ways. A man who skips out of a meeting because his kid is sick in the nurse's office doesn't get the same treatment at the office as a woman doing the same.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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I don't think it has the same import... Women are still assumed to be the primary caregivers so a man having children isn't seen by many as an obstacle to him working out etc (not to mention not going through the pregnancy, weight gain, recovery etc). For example (and unfortunately for me) when my husband goes to the gym after work in his mind it's just him coming home late from work but when I go to the gym and leave the baby with him, he's "babysitting". He does it happily but it's still seen as a favour on his part, whereas when I'm watching the baby while HE'S at the gym, I'm just doing "my job"..
THIS -- inequality of caregiving/domestic/economic responsibilities & societal expectations - is why feminists should be annoyed, not that woman's hotness (i don't think?), which is basically indisputable. though i think someone found fault with her elbows (?!?).
@wheird - you got one, lol - it just was not funny, because i am not a haha person at all about these sorts of things. i would jest about pancakes probably any time.
That cuts both ways. A man who skips out of a meeting because his kid is sick in the nurse's office doesn't get the same treatment at the office as a woman doing the same.
Absolutely. What I think is, both paternal and maternal leave should be mandatory, so employers can't bully men out of it. And that way, both people split the risk of lost opportunity for advancement, as well as the joy of parenthood. It'd probably be more complicated than that in practice, but that's my working proposal.
and yeah both should get protected time for family emergencies, etc0 -
This is going to be on Good Morning America soon. Unless I already missed it... I haven't been in the same room as the tv.
My take: Three years ago, before I joined here, I would have wanted to throat punch her. I thought weight loss and achieving fitness was really hard and took a lot of time and dedication.
I was right about the dedication. But the time? Not really. It doesn't take any more time for me to cook and eat right than it does to cook and eat poorly. And it doesn't take eating minimally or perfectly. Enough of a calorie deficit to lose, and enough total calories to have energy and not feel like poop.
Exercise doesn't really take all that long, either, once you find a routine that works for you. I know people who've been struggling with their weight for ages, and they're all focusing on cardio, cardio, cardio, and getting nowhere. Like going to the gym twice a day and spending HOURS on the elliptical. I'm not saying cardio is pointless. I still love running and do it three times a week on average. But I also found that lifting weights made the biggest difference between looking smaller and looking FIT. I spend probably about a half hour to at absolute MOST an hour (if I'm running 10k) on exercise a day. Probably about 4 hours a week. I spend that much time watching Colbert Report and Daily Show a week. Before I joined here, I spent more time than that playing Farmville and Bejeweled Blitz on Facebook. I also saved up money I would have spent on a gym membership, and bought weights. Since I do all my running outside, and lifting at home, that saves time that I'd spend driving to and from the gym.
Edit: The promo for this clip on GMA showed her doing squats in the playground while holding her toddler. Another great way to save time! Sometimes I stop during a run to do pullups on the monkeybars at a playground.0 -
This is still going? And not locked? Impressive.
Also, I got up at 5:30 this morning. Made coffee, put a load if laundry in, set out school clothes for my 3 kids (my husband will take them) and am off to the gym for the first time in over a month (been lifting at home), partly inspired by this post. Hell I might even do cardio.0 -
Wonder how this would have went if it was a dude that posted a pic and stated the same thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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it is not even comparable, dudes are not expected to invest the same amount of time in childrearing; their bodies aren't completely messed with by the invasion of another creature, there is not the same unreasonable expectation to maintain youthful beauty all through life, and the accusation of laziness if that doesn't happen (and men are thought attractive into their later years even if they don't work out), etc etc etc.
it is not problematic because women are "catty", jesus effing.
if a male cover model had a pretty face, though, some men might cut him down by calling him a pretty boy (and taking that where it often goes). if he was more rugged looking and tough, or else just cool, they would want to be more like him.
women are no longer expected to spend most of their time child rearing - and dads are a million times more involved than they were before the 70s and 80s - they are doing their dangedest to do at least half the work and girls are STILL morning about how much work they have to do to be a mom - when being a mom is all they ever wanted in their tiny little world. then they get what they want and its like ermergerd too much work. TOO BAD. This is everything youve been dreaming about since you found someone willing to put a ring on it -_-
It IS problematic because women are catty and we've evolved over the last 500 years in competition with each other. And yes - women do hold their weight differently and deal with different kinds of hormonal effects and yes we can grow a person inside of us - but its not freaking mandatory to have kids. And there's no rule saying you cant be healthy and exercise WHILE youre pregnant and you dont have to wait until maternity leave is over to get in a workout here and there or eat right - especially if youre going to breastfeed.
No im not a mom. No Im not married. No I dont have kids. No i dont think that if i was married with a kid, would i have the right answers - of course not - i know im not perfect.
but i do know that ive been living a very healthy active lifestyle for many years now and that when / if i do end up in a situation with kid(s) in my life - then i will still be active (more active because kids) still be eating healthy (healthier because kids).
because im the kind of person who looks for all the possible ways of making something happen. Im NOT the kind of person that would rather sit around and talk about all the reasons it wouldnt work for me, all the people who wouldnt have success, all the things that could pop up and throw me off course, all the what if's and buts and exceptions that i keep stockpiling to prove that i cant be successful.
and also - regarding those comments yesterday - if Im ever at the beach, building sandcastles with the kids and getting all grimy and someone tells me im creepy for being in a bikini when im playing with my kids on the beach - i would slap them across the face so hard that they'd break through a plateau and hit a mini goal.
Only people who already have something psychologically wrong up there - would accuse a mother of being creepy with her own children, just because she's hanging out with them and wearing a two piece.
The fact that youve had children does not revoke your right to being sexy or provocative. If anything, you're allowed to be sexier than regular girls.
If you put as much effort into taking action and working with the plan you found that does work for you - as the amount of effort that people put in here - spending hours talking about everything that doesnt work (facepalm - in what universe is that productive) or wont work or why it wont work - yall would all be able to look back at this ad and mental high five yourself for not having excuses either.
People who have legitimate reasons for not being in the best shape they can be - or not being able to work toward it - probably wont be offended by this picture because she obviously wasnt aiming it at people with REASONS. She was aiming it at people who have EXCUSES - and sure enough - just like every time you bring up that word, the ones that get hell bent out of shape are the ones that arent making much progress - if any, who are famous for writing long explanations of why they cant do anything, who are always complaining about not wanting to work out or are always forgiving themselves for a binge and saying its a NEW DAY! (its NOT, by the way, a new day - your body is the same one it was yesterday, with the same binge in your intestines) or who are too afraid to work out where someone might see them giving a frak. They have angry bitter mugshot profile pictures (or flowers, field or a cat) and instead of just walking past something that doesnt motivate them or doesnt apply to them, they pop a squat, sink into a big old lazyboy, grab their keyboard, move their snacks to the side, crack their knuckles and smile to themselves and get ready to shoot down every optimistic person who makes the mistake of walking into this thread and having the nerve to believe in themselves - or WORSE - to be a walking example that it IS possible.
Because its not - and there are a lot of people here on MFP who are only here to keep people from seeing any success. because they arent seeing any.
What's my excuse?
I dont have any. Im kicking tush, Maria. High Five!0
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