Fast Food Workers Striking?!?!?
Replies
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Then how would you grow your business to stay ahead of your competitors? (I really want to know; I'm pretty ignorant about the business world) You might have more work than you can do yourself, but less than what would require a "living wage" employee. If your similarly-placed competition *is* willing to hire low-wage workers to bridge the gap and can find them, they have just gained a competitive advantage over you. You may not be able to retain any market share at all.
Cool, so as a business owner, if you have employees who want more money, but what you're paying them is fair for what the market will bear, and they try to strongarm you by not coming in to work or threatening not to come in to work, what do you do?Following on from previous - I own my own business. I needed start up capital to do this. Not everyone has the capital to take a punt on the market. In fact, not many do.
I dont employ anyone. If I do, they will be a part time farm worker and judging by the standards on this thread they will be the lowest of the low. The answer is, of course I wouldn't dream of employing anyone I couldn't pay a living wage to.
I see that the nature of some businesses is that the above model may not apply, but extrapolating to the majority of businesses where it does, what happens then? It sounds like your refusal to hire a low-wage worker could put you out of business.
i am more of a fan of pay them based on how the produce. As a farmer, if his farm hand is hard working and increases revenue pay him accordingly.
Same happens at McDonalds. They few employees who work hard move into management (shift managers). But McDonalds is not built for promotions. As a farmer it could be. It is all based on potential advancement of work. Some business models allow it others do not.0 -
In all honesty, I dont care. I know a one-man band can make a good living at what I do, so I'm really not interested. I know that there will always be a market for what I produce and that my capital value increases with my stock. I know I could sell them all tomorrow and walk away better off than when I started.
then that is a great investment of money and time.0 -
People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.0 -
This is a disturbing thread.0
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No, because, you see, the businesses are turning record profits and they're just being greedy by denying their workers full-time employment at a "living wage" regardless of the value they add to the business.People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.
I'm still trying to figure out how to force the companies to take these labor cost increases without passing them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices to ensure their profit margin stays just as high as it is now. Nobody has a good answer for that. I can already tell you that government can't force them to do it.0 -
People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.
Yeah, but not one as profitable as McDonalds......0 -
OK, so what I'm taking from this is that your business owner experience won't help me understand the big picture, so I'll discontinue this line of inquiry. I do appreciate your time thus far, though.In all honesty, I dont care. I know a one-man band can make a good living at what I do, so I'm really not interested. I know that there will always be a market for what I produce and that my capital value increases with my stock. I know I could sell them all tomorrow and walk away better off than when I started.0 -
No, because, you see, the businesses are turning record profits and they're just being greedy by denying their workers full-time employment at a "living wage" regardless of the value they add to the business.People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.
I'm still trying to figure out how to force the companies to take these labor cost increases without passing them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices to ensure their profit margin stays just as high as it is now. Nobody has a good answer for that. I can already tell you that government can't force them to do it.
The workers do it, but threatening industrial action. the price of a burger remains the same, because competition.0 -
I'm still trying to figure out how to force the companies to take these labor cost increases without passing them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices to ensure their profit margin stays just as high as it is now. Nobody has a good answer for that. I can already tell you that government can't force them to do it.
You can't. Either you will stick it to the consumer or let some of your staff go and require the rest to pick up the slack.0 -
I will agree that the price the consumer pays for a burger has, if anything, gone down, but I am not sure that once you account for externalities the price paid has remained the same. In other industries, though, I do not agree that competition has resulted in prices remaining the same. Otherwise, why would everyone be shouting about the necessity of wage increases to keep up with the increased cost of living? Admittedly, my own purchasing power has been somewhat eroded over the last five years or so, because my salary has remained fairly constant. I am no longer looking to "move up the ladder", so there's really no way for me to get an increase. I would not like to see the minimum wage go up and consequently see prices go up, meaning my purchasing power has been further eroded. I didn't do anything, yet I'm moving backwards. How is that fair? I'm just as smart and hard-working as I was before any minimum-wage increase. Do I automatically get a corresponding increase to compensate for the inevitable across-the-board price increases?The workers do it, but threatening industrial action. the price of a burger remains the same, because competition.0 -
In a non-skilled labor environment like McDonalds, the workers can't do it.
No, because, you see, the businesses are turning record profits and they're just being greedy by denying their workers full-time employment at a "living wage" regardless of the value they add to the business.People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.
I'm still trying to figure out how to force the companies to take these labor cost increases without passing them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices to ensure their profit margin stays just as high as it is now. Nobody has a good answer for that. I can already tell you that government can't force them to do it.
The workers do it, but threatening industrial action. the price of a burger remains the same, because competition.
It is simple.
"Mike" demends a raise and goes on strike.
"Mike" is now out of a job because "Kelly" will work that same job for that same pay.
It isn't like the people striking are running power plants or landing aircraft.0 -
Well, at least they (some of them) will have gotten a higher wage to go with that extra workload. The folks already making more than the new minimum will just get screwed with more work. Sign me up!
I'm still trying to figure out how to force the companies to take these labor cost increases without passing them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices to ensure their profit margin stays just as high as it is now. Nobody has a good answer for that. I can already tell you that government can't force them to do it.
You can't. Either you will stick it to the consumer or let some of your staff go and require the rest to pick up the slack.0 -
I don't really care about business owners, but I'm dead set against an increase in min wage. In fact, the best min wage is $0.00
Who benefits from an increase in wages? The people who already have a job, the people with the most skills, and companies that make automation equipment.
Who is hurt by an increase in wages? Everybody else.
- Those with the least skills are less likely to get a job because they are now a higher cost.
- Consumers pay more
- Teens with no experience aren't worth the risk - if they end up being incompetent, the employer is out more wages
I know you can lie all you want with statistics, but I find this to be a very interesting graph:
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People do realize for each employee raise the business PAYS an increase in - workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, federal taxes, etc.... You have to look at the whole picture.
Paying someone to sweep the floors the same as a, say, mechanic the cost of labor/parts to the customer will go up too. Just to break even, say labor to customer 200 per hour to fix the car... How long will that business keep the doors open.
Businesses have already placed employee to part time, with no health ins, retirement accounts just to keep their doors open.
Yeah, but not one as profitable as McDonalds......
Misconception. The McDonald's owned by corporate may have high profits but generally owner/operators of a McDonald's don't turn much of a profit unless they own several stores or have stores in high traffic areas because of the high rents and franchise fees plus operating costs. If you increase minimum wage you cut even more into their operating costs.0 -
I don't really care about business owners, but I'm dead set against an increase in min wage. In fact, the best min wage is $0.00
Who benefits from an increase in wages? The people who already have a job, the people with the most skills, and companies that make automation equipment.
Who is hurt by an increase in wages? Everybody else.
- Those with the least skills are less likely to get a job because they are now a higher cost.
- Consumers pay more
- Teens with no experience aren't worth the risk - if they end up being incompetent, the employer is out more wages
I know you can lie all you want with statistics, but I find this to be a very interesting graph:
I hope that's a typo about how much a min. wage person should make...Nobody will work for free..unless it is donating your time for charity of some sort.0 -
Fast food and other minimum wage jobs are meant for high school and college students to earn a bit of spending money while their parents pay for all of their big expenses, which is why fast food restaurants and retail stores are only open after school, on weekends, and during school holidays.
:laugh: But, I do agree that these types of jobs are generally for people who don't solely rely on that job, sort of like Walmart. You have a lot of college-aged kids and elderly people on partial social security working there.
Regarding the strike being illegal, in my state, your employer can fire you if you don't come to work, so that wouldn't work here. If these fast food workers are claiming that they can't live on their wages, I seriously doubt that they afford to strike. And, what would they do after they got fired? They'd struggle to find a new job. It will be much harder for them to find a job after being fired (except in the same low-wage industry), especially with the job market the way that it is. I'm all for employee rights, but I wouldn't want to hire someone who went on strike over pay that they agreed to take. I'd see that person as unreliable. And, I'm assuming that they tried to find better employment before thinking about the strike. Since they're still at the companies that they're planning to strike, I'm going to assume that no other company would hire them. So, it's probably best to stick with the companies that hired them.0 -
I don't really care about business owners, but I'm dead set against an increase in min wage. In fact, the best min wage is $0.00
I hope that's a typo about how much a min. wage person should make...Nobody will work for free..unless it is donating your time for charity of some sort.
Not a typo, but a misunderstanding. People work for free all the time - they're called interns. I disagree with any law mandating that I can not work for somebody unless they pay me a set amount. If I want to work for $1 per hour, I should be able to. Very few people make minimum wage for very long - low wages are just a good place to start people before you know if they are going to provide much value for the business.0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.0 -
I work for a union and this thread makes my head want to explode with rage.0
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I don't really care about business owners, but I'm dead set against an increase in min wage. In fact, the best min wage is $0.00
I hope that's a typo about how much a min. wage person should make...Nobody will work for free..unless it is donating your time for charity of some sort.
Not a typo, but a misunderstanding. People work for free all the time - they're called interns. I disagree with any law mandating that I can not work for somebody unless they pay me a set amount. If I want to work for $1 per hour, I should be able to. Very few people make minimum wage for very long - low wages are just a good place to start people before you know if they are going to provide much value for the business.
^ Ridiculous.
AHMERICUH!0 -
I don't really care about business owners, but I'm dead set against an increase in min wage. In fact, the best min wage is $0.00
I hope that's a typo about how much a min. wage person should make...Nobody will work for free..unless it is donating your time for charity of some sort.
Not a typo, but a misunderstanding. People work for free all the time - they're called interns. I disagree with any law mandating that I can not work for somebody unless they pay me a set amount. If I want to work for $1 per hour, I should be able to. Very few people make minimum wage for very long - low wages are just a good place to start people before you know if they are going to provide much value for the business.
I will say that I work at just above min. wage amounts..and it is barely enough to scrape by as a single mother of two. I did go to school. I did get a degree. And I didn't find a job that is in the field I was trained, and believe me I searched. Now they have changed it to where you have to be certified to get that career, unfortunately I have been out of school so long I will have to go through a lot and pay a lot more money to get back up to speed to qualify for certification. I won't work for free...but I will work at least for min. wage until I can find better. I do love what I do which is what kept me at this job for so long. But I don't get to do what I was trained for which honestly most anyone can do with just a little training.0 -
McDonald's will either decide that having employees that don't strike is worth a higher wage, or they will decide that strikes are an acceptable part of the expense of paying low wages. Either way, that's a cost of doing business and turning a profit. They aren't benevolent gods bestowing favors on people, they are in business. All the "what the market will bear" crap applies to them too. The workers have the right to demand more money, they aren't taking anyone hostage. Why is it "acceptable" for a business to refuse a salary request (demanding that their employees work for low pay) but employees demanding more money (we won't work for what you are offering) is somehow horrifying?0
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Some facts yo
FACT: the minimum wage is not a living wage in most countries, particularly the US. EVERYONE pays the price for a low minimum wage. It is the best way to ensure dependence on welfare. It is the best way to ensure families live in poverty. It is the best way to create an even greater need for higher taxation.
FACT: most workers that end up on the minimum wage are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Most are women. Lots are migrants.
FACT: When employers have all the power to demand more from their workers, while also failing to keep wages rising at the rate of inflation- we get what you call 'exploitation.' When workers can't take collective action or indeed bargain with employers, you allow exploitation to occur.
FACT: ALL companies can cut costs. THIS DOESN'T NEED TO COME FROM WAGES. There are so many ways to reduce operating costs /overheads before punishing the people that make your business possible. And its the right thing to do. Remember how American Airlines cut hundreds of thousands of dollars per year by putting one less olive in first class passangers salads? Yeah.0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.0 -
Some facts yo
FACT: the minimum wage is not a living wage in most countries, particularly the US. EVERYONE pays the price for a low minimum wage. It is the best way to ensure dependence on welfare. It is the best way to ensure families live in poverty. It is the best way to create an even greater need for higher taxation.
FACT: most workers that end up on the minimum wage are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Most are women. Lots are migrants.
FACT: When employers have all the power to demand more from their workers, while also failing to keep wages rising at the rate of inflation- we get what you call 'exploitation.' When workers can't take collective action or indeed bargain with employers, you allow exploitation to occur.
FACT: ALL companies can cut costs. THIS DOESN'T NEED TO COME FROM WAGES. There are so many ways to reduce operating costs /overheads before punishing the people that make your business possible. And its the right thing to do. Remember how American Airlines cut hundreds of thousands of dollars per year by putting one less olive in first class passangers salads? Yeah.
Bolded:
No.
You've never run a business have you?0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.
Lol CEOs skills are 14,000,00 rarer.
No- not anyone can be a CEO. But you can increase your chances by
a. being born a man. Really, I recommend this. Its useful in almost all aspects of life.
b. be born into a family and circumstance of privilege
c. be white
d. be encouraged to do an MBA or lesser business degree- hopefully paid for by wealthy and supportive parents
e. learn to network real good at the bar with the boys.
Sorry common McDonalds workers! Shoulda tried harder!
And when you do happen to see a CEO who dosen't seem exceptionally bright or exceptionally exceptional- they are prolly just hiding their incredible skills.0 -
Some facts yo
FACT: the minimum wage is not a living wage in most countries, particularly the US. EVERYONE pays the price for a low minimum wage. It is the best way to ensure dependence on welfare. It is the best way to ensure families live in poverty. It is the best way to create an even greater need for higher taxation.
FACT: most workers that end up on the minimum wage are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Most are women. Lots are migrants.
FACT: When employers have all the power to demand more from their workers, while also failing to keep wages rising at the rate of inflation- we get what you call 'exploitation.' When workers can't take collective action or indeed bargain with employers, you allow exploitation to occur.
FACT: ALL companies can cut costs. THIS DOESN'T NEED TO COME FROM WAGES. There are so many ways to reduce operating costs /overheads before punishing the people that make your business possible. And its the right thing to do. Remember how American Airlines cut hundreds of thousands of dollars per year by putting one less olive in first class passangers salads? Yeah.
Bolded:
No.
You've never run a business have you?
No. Just did an economics degree.
Oh and just grew up in a household where dad owned a business. My stepdad also ownes a business- small business actually. Spent a lot of time learning from them as I grew up.
And ya know- being a union employee representing workers in a number of unstable sectors, I get to speak to workers, employers, government representatives, department heads and community members about how costs can be cut while ensuring we pay workers fairly and provide consistent work. We've done this successfully for lots of workers- whether it be in the steel industry or hairdressers.0 -
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.
So now the rarity of your skills defines whether or not you should get paid a mind boggling wage while paying your staff below a living wage? Please. If the CEO invested 14 million in his training, I'd shed a tear for him. If others working life saving jobs didn't invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to get paid a fraction of what they invested, this argument would hold water.
The skills in many jobs are specialized. Most people don't get 14 million dollar raises. Because the folks actually supplying the labor don't stand for it. Fast food employees traditionally have because they can't afford to do anything about. Yes, there are tons of desperate people willing to get underpaid, so big companies can afford to underpay. The desperation of society doesn't define the worth of the workers. I applaud the efforts of people who don't make a living wage to stand up and say a living wage is necessary and *achievable* when someone is making $14 million in a raise.
I got a higher education and can't afford to strike even if my union does. I'd go to work because I need my paycheck.0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.
Lol CEOs skills are 14,000,00 rarer.
No- not anyone can be a CEO. But you can increase your chances by
a. being born a man. Really, I recommend this. Its useful in almost all aspects of life.
b. be born into a family and circumstance of privilege
c. be white
d. be encouraged to do an MBA or lesser business degree- hopefully paid for by wealthy and supportive parents
e. learn to network real good at the bar with the boys.
Sorry common McDonalds workers! Shoulda tried harder!
And when you do happen to see a CEO who dosen't seem exceptionally bright or exceptionally exceptional- they are prolly just hiding their incredible skills.
a-c sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. There are women CEOs, ones that weren't born to families of privilege and ones that aren't white.
d You don't think CEOs should have MBAs? Why?
e. Networking is important in many businesses. It is a skill in and of itself. Why do you dislike this?
Bolded: First it's apples and oranges, now it's oversimplification. McDonalds is well known for promoting from within (local managerial positions). If they do work hard, if they do try harder, then can get paid more. It's a great system, rewarding effort instead of something ridiculous like rewarding time in.0
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