naturally thin people

The claims that there are not naturally thin or naturally fat people are just pseudo-scientific hogwash. Yes we can can all control our weight to a significant degree, but it's unfair to say that fat people only differ in having bad habits. Basal metabolic rate varies hugely among individuals for innate reasons other than lean body mass and it does not take much difference in BMR to significantly influence maintenance body weight. I don't know why people don't just go look things up, the data s not hard to find. Here is an example from Wikipedia describing a study of BMR variation that is pretty well known:

"The basal metabolic rate varies between individuals. One study of 150 adults representative of the population in Scotland reported basal metabolic rates from as low as 1027 kcal per day (4301 kJ/day) to as high as 2499 kcal/day (10455 kJ/day); with a mean BMR of 1500 kcal/day (6279 kJ/day). Statistically, the researchers calculated that 62.3% of this variation was explained by differences in fat free mass. Other factors explaining the variation included fat mass (6.7%), age (1.7%), and experimental error including within-subject difference (2%). The rest of the variation (26.7%) was unexplained. This remaining difference was not explained by sex nor by differing tissue sized of highly energetic organs such as the brain.[9]
Thus there are differences in BMR even when comparing two subjects with the same lean body mass. The top 5% of people are metabolizing energy 28-32% faster than individuals with the lowest 5% BMR.[10] For instance, one study reported an extreme case where two individuals with the same lean body mass of 43 kg had BMRs of 1075 kcal/day (4.5 MJ/day) and 1790 kcal/day (7.5 MJ/day). This difference of 715 kcal/day (67%) is equivalent to one of the individuals completing a 10 kilometer run every day.[10]"

okay this is from my experience and not scientific or linked, just personal experience

I don't think very many are naturally thin, but I know 2 circumstances in my own family that are true. My wife and youngest son are naturally thin. My wife has gained some weight. She is 5'3 and 125 at 49. Most of her life she has been about 110. She always eats very large amounts of unhealthy foods for her size. She makes sweats. She eats tons of hamburgers, pizza, steak, Mexican food. She never eats fruits or vegetables. My youngest is the same as her. The youngest drinks a ton of whole milk and eats more than his peers. He is 12 and has a six pack. He is thin enough we had the doctors look him over concerned. They tested thyroid and a few other things and he is perfectly normal. Doctors wrote it off to genetics.

So think there is something genetically in some people that don't tell them to store fat like others even when they over eat

Wrong.

With all due respect, your doctor is an idiot and get another one.

There are no such things as "fat" genes or "skinny" genes.

You really should do some wider reading before you make such claims. To start, read about FTO. http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FTO

ETA: the Agouti gene in mice; Prader-wili syndrome in humans, a paternally inherited syndrome where people affected usually have an insatiable appetite. While it's caused by a specific known mutation, how do we know that there aren't gene variations that cause more subtle effects?

Genetic variation absolutely influences metabolic processes. BMI alone has a heritability of around 50% (there was a recent very large study on this, but I can't remember the exact figure off hand).

Epigenetics also plays a role. Google and read the Dutch Hunger Winter studies and then tell me that genetics (Epigenetics in this case) doesn't count.

We are talking about genetically normal other-wise healthy people- not mutants.

And mice studies don't count.

Basic metabolism is the same for everyone. Even at rest, muscles make up 20-30 percent of of the basal metabolic rate, so those with a larger muscle mass will burn more calories.

The average 70 kg male will burn 65-70 Calories per hour at rest.

google metabolic rate and Guyton and do some reading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dU3GHvKubU

Yes there are naturally thin people. But don't lose heart, it's possible that even they can end up fat or hungry like the rest of us through mysterious and nefarious influences that could involve anything from stress to pollutants to viruses. If misery loves company, just wait around, your skinny pals who eat whatever they want might end up right there at the cupcake trough eventually.

The problem is that most obese people don't have skinny friends.

Sorry. Bad joke.

But if you are obese and ready to get serious about weight loss, track down one of those amazing genetically gifted NATURALLY skinny people who also don't exercise much and invite them out for coffee (NOT lunch).

Then ask then detailed questions about their eating habits. How much, how often, what they like to eat. How they feel about food.

You'll be surprised.

The stomach does change over time with this protocol, and the brain does re-wire.

And you can attain that happy state.

It is the only way to permanent weight loss, but people don't believe it. Scientists who should be studying this don't, because no one makes any money if you miss a meal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dU3GHvKubU

Yes there are naturally thin people. But don't lose heart, it's possible that even they can end up fat or hungry like the rest of us through mysterious and nefarious influences that could involve anything from stress to pollutants to viruses. If misery loves company, just wait around, your skinny pals who eat whatever they want might end up right there at the cupcake trough eventually.

The problem is that most obese people don't have skinny friends.

Sorry. Bad joke.

But if you are obese and ready to get serious about weight loss, track down one of those amazing genetically gifted NATURALLY skinny people who also don't exercise much and invite them out for coffee (NOT lunch).

Then ask then detailed questions about their eating habits. How much, how often, what they like to eat. How they feel about food.

You'll be surprised.

I'm not overweight anymore, but it is a struggle to maintain. I was creeping back up into the high end of my normal range the past two months because of how hard it is for me. I got a nasty rash on my back, horrible mood swings, and the worst cold ever, too. Guess it serves me right for forgetting that a little bit of junk food turns quickly into the entire baked goods section of the grocery store.

If I eat like a skinny person who doesn't crave, here is what happens: I'll share a carb filled, sensible meal with Miss Skinny Minny. Maybe we'll split dessert. 500 calories each, total. Wonderful. Neither of us will gain weight that way if we eat three meals a day. Worst that will happen is we'll maintain.

But then I'll go home and crave junk-food for the rest of the day. Skinny Minny, meanwhile, will watch some TV, maybe have a glass of wine, do some yoga, do whatever, and go to sleep, blissfully free of any desire to polish off an entire quart of ice cream.

That and only that is the difference. But it's huge!

And low carb, while it helps, still doesn't entirely get rid of the cravings. It's hard work to stay thin when part of your brain thinks a serving size of cookies should be the family sized bag.

You can control your cravings, believe it or not.

Your skinny friend has.

You have not.

One way is to get used to being a little bit hungry. The best way is to skip breakfast on a routine basis and live your morning life- whatever it is, raising kids, working, whatever-with your stomach not full of food.

The stomach does change over time with this protocol, and the brain does re-wire.

And you can attain that happy state.

It is the only way to permanent weight loss, but people don't believe it. Scientists who should be studying this don't, because no one makes any money if you miss a meal.

Read some of my other posts on the subject. There are actually two LOCKED threads on the subject of skipping breakfast, which shows you the prevailing attitude on something- dealing with hunger- that the NATURALLY think people have conquered long ago.

okay this is from my experience and not scientific or linked, just personal experience

I don't think very many are naturally thin, but I know 2 circumstances in my own family that are true. My wife and youngest son are naturally thin. My wife has gained some weight. She is 5'3 and 125 at 49. Most of her life she has been about 110. She always eats very large amounts of unhealthy foods for her size. She makes sweats. She eats tons of hamburgers, pizza, steak, Mexican food. She never eats fruits or vegetables. My youngest is the same as her. The youngest drinks a ton of whole milk and eats more than his peers. He is 12 and has a six pack. He is thin enough we had the doctors look him over concerned. They tested thyroid and a few other things and he is perfectly normal. Doctors wrote it off to genetics.

So think there is something genetically in some people that don't tell them to store fat like others even when they over eat

Wrong.

With all due respect, your doctor is an idiot and get another one.

There are no such things as "fat" genes or "skinny" genes.

You really should do some wider reading before you make such claims. To start, read about FTO. http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FTO

ETA: the Agouti gene in mice; Prader-wili syndrome in humans, a paternally inherited syndrome where people affected usually have an insatiable appetite. While it's caused by a specific known mutation, how do we know that there aren't gene variations that cause more subtle effects?

Genetic variation absolutely influences metabolic processes. BMI alone has a heritability of around 50% (there was a recent very large study on this, but I can't remember the exact figure off hand).

Epigenetics also plays a role. Google and read the Dutch Hunger Winter studies and then tell me that genetics (Epigenetics in this case) doesn't count.

Nice reply.

A textbook (Guyton and Hall) is the go-to source for all information that has been proved and accepted by ALL medical experts and researchers throughout the WORLD.

It is not just ONE piece.

It is the MAJOR piece. It is the gold standard.

Lay-people who are just trying to lose weight should not go farther than Guyton's, or any similar medical textbook, for their understanding of physiology and how their bodies work.

All these other theories have to be vetted, and then they WILL become a part of Guyton's and mainstream accepted medicine IF they pass muster.

The vast majority fall by the wayside because they are WRONG.

Dr. Oz and other TV "professionals" like him should be ashamed of some of the positive spin they put on nonsensical approaches to weight loss they parade out on their shows.

Basic metabolism within humans only varies as the levels of muscle mass changes, and the level of thyroid hormones change over time. The effect these changes have on net calorie balance is small compared the effect of burning calories through exercise or not ingesting calories at all by ACTUALLY SKIPPING A MEAL.

Putting Guyton's on an equal level with some rat study with a likely flawed design is totally disingenuous.

. How many times that gene occurs in your genome?

Until all these studies make it into Guyton or some other mainstream physiology textbook as verified concepts, I'm not going to waste time on it.

Until all these studies make it into Guyton or some other mainstream physiology textbook as verified concepts, I'm not going to waste time on it.

But you see Steve, this is what makes you unable to have a debate. Because you are going on 2010 material and it is 2013. Plus, who's to say everything important got into Guytons?

*headesk*

Guyton's latest publication date is 2011.

Admittedly, it probably reflects stuff that is a couple years older than that.

But I do not understand how the breakfast works.

When I married my husband he was 6' and weighed 138 lbs, Yes you read that right. That man was skinny. He had a metabolism as they say. Well actually he didn't, his family are all thin as well. Here is what I observed:

My mother-in-law made a pound of pasta for 5, and it was more than enough. My mother made a pound of pasta for 4 as a side dish and we ate it all.
My Sister-in-law walked in the house starving, ate 1/2 a sausage and she was full. Me I would have eaten 3 sausages.
My husband would be hungry, not find food he liked to eat and just wouldn't eat. When I am hungry, there is always something that I will eat.
My mother-in-law made a pan of Lasagna and each person ate one square. My house, a pan of Lasagna fed 3 people.
My husband's home, food was not the center of everything. Food was important, but not the center. My house, food was the center of all social gatherings.

My husband was a smoker at that time and he always had Acid Reflux. He found out his stomach produces too much acid, which is what I think contributed to what we thought was a high metabolism. Before he controled the acid he had a very high tolerance to medication, alcohol, etc. Basically if a drug was take every 6 hours, it completely wore off in 4 for him. He also quick smoking. Between both those things he gained about 50 lbs. He also go older and less active.

So based on what I saw, thinner people naturally eat less food, even if it is high calorie. My MIL cooked steak in oil, husband ate 1/2. I cooked same steak, no added oil, he ate the whole steak. My husband does not ENJOY food the same way I do. He likes food, but he could live without it, he eats to live. I eat sometimes cause well its Pizza.

Thin people eat when they are hungry and stop eating when full, they also don't do comfort eating. When stressed they don't eat. It is the opposite for someone like me, I comfort eat, I eat when stressed, I eat when bored, etc. Not true for thin people.

FYI, my daughter is also thin. I have seen her eat 1200 calories in one sitting at age 5 and the next day eat only 120 calories for the day.