Ketogenic Diet - How many carbs do you eat?

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Replies

  • hookilau
    hookilau Posts: 3,134 Member
    I've eaten as many as 60g net per day and still pissed and breathed acetone.
    The total amount you can ingest and still stay in ketosis will depend on your overall metabolism and daily caloric intake. As a big guy (I'm 6'3" and a true mesomorph - I'm usually around 220 when at 11% bodyfat) I can eat over 100g a day and maintain ketosis.

    A 120lb woman, however, might have issues maintaining it at 60g ... I find 10% of calories from carbohydrate usually maintains ketosis for exercising individuals already-in a ketogenic state. A little bit lower for those who cannot (for whatever reason) exercise.

    Sadly, that's me :ohwell:
    I currently weigh around 138# and as I've lost weight, I've had to decrease my carbs to accordingly :brokenheart:
    I need to stay below 30ish g :ohwell: Though this makes me kind of sad, it's easily sustainable with all the fat I consume, exercise and well, there's that pesky blood sugar monster that likes this particular number :blushing:
  • jillll1
    jillll1 Posts: 13 Member
    I agree with everything you said. I'm hoping to read more posts by you. Thanks for the reminders. :O)
  • imimimimi
    imimimimi Posts: 2
    question- sorry if it is too basic. we are talking about NET CARB here right? Not total carb?
    I eat about three heads of broccoli and three heads of iceberg a day! how much carb would that be?

    Many thx x
  • astartig
    astartig Posts: 549 Member
    OP... under 100 keeps you in ketosis... most start really low and do some pump workouts to burn out all the glycogen and get into ketosis dfast.. youll feel like crap til your body adjusts.... many do a TKD (targetted ketogenic diet) when they eat more carbs surrounding workouts.... You can do this and perform better in the gym while staying in keto... also, once youve been in keto for over a month people often jump out of keto (refeed) for a day or so just to let their body even out and improve training capacity... do your research

    Keto isnt crazy but you should be doing some supplementation since you cant really eat much fruit.... I wouldnt make it a lifestyle, but, its fine for quite a while.... Some people do really well switching their energy source to fat... others never adjust

    its the right answer for plenty of people.. especially overweight people who just dont have the capacity to eat carbs in moderation... (too big of a psychological bond)


    im talking about eating the same amount of calories as woudl be suggested by any diet.... not some stupid fad diet that says eat whatever the F you want as long as its not carbs.. thats just stupid..
    From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.

    its the right answer for plenty of people.. especially overweight people who just dont have the capacity to eat carbs in moderation... (too big of a psychological bond)
    Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.

    There is a difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. I suggest you do a little more reading. try googling ketogenic diet.
  • hookilau
    hookilau Posts: 3,134 Member
    question- sorry if it is too basic. we are talking about NET CARB here right? Not total carb?
    I eat about three heads of broccoli and three heads of iceberg a day! how much carb would that be?

    Many thx x

    I can't speak for anyone else, but no, that's not NET CARB, that's gross. 30 g of carb gross per day. While I can tolerate more carbs in the form of raw veggies, I get as much as I can but do not count the leafy greens. I probably eat about 2ish cups per day, which does not equate to much, but it works for me.
  • nagazim
    nagazim Posts: 4 Member
    Does Myfitnesspal carbs total = net carbs or gross carbs? I have been going by MFP's carb readout and eating <30g per day.
  • MermaidTX
    MermaidTX Posts: 352 Member
    Does Myfitnesspal carbs total = net carbs or gross carbs? I have been going by MFP's carb readout and eating <30g per day.

    MFP's carb total = Gross. I changed my Sugar column to Fiber so I could easily figure Net carbs.

    I often see foods in the database listed as 'Net Carbs' tho (whoever entered them already accounted for sugar alcohols & fiber I suppose).
  • nagazim
    nagazim Posts: 4 Member
    Thank you! Good suggestion about swapping sugar for fiber. So you subtract fiber from total carbs and that is your net carbs, correct?
  • ken_ferry77
    ken_ferry77 Posts: 4
    "Fruits have high levels of fructose, which is a simple sugar. Not good if someone is trying to lose weight. As for vegetables, there is a handful of carbs in them for one, and they are complex. These burn slower and do not spike insulin levels like simple carbs. The spiking of insulin is where the harm is for the most part, and what causes excess adipose tissue, aka, fat. As for ketosis, I just went into it today. This is something I have done many times. When you do not take in carbs, your body turns to protein and converts it to carbs, unless you workout and do cardio, then the proteins are used up to repair and build muscle tissue. So if you are exercising and using proteins, the body will turn to adipose tissue, which is actually stored carbs. When this tissue is used up, carb intake should be increased. Your body will continue to target carbs in the fat deposites vs the blood and liver.

    Ketosis is not harmful if you stay in it for a LIMITED time. If you continue on it after you use up your fat reserves and do not take in carbs, your body will start to target muscle tissue. As for ketosis causing loss of bone density, that is simply not true. It is not biologically possible. And yes, ketosis and ketoacidosis are related. But ketoacidosis is a result of little or no insulin available to drive carbs out of the blood. As a result, the body goes into ketosis. But the harm is not the ketones, it is the extremely high levels of glucose in the blood. That is where the confusion between the two comes from. Controlled ketosis done through carb restriction is not harmful like ketoacidosis because there is no high levels of glucose in the blood.

    I will say, it is better to incorporate exercise with the keto diet. You don't want to lose protein weight, which is muscle. If you do not exercise and put protein intake to good use, the body will convert it to carbs before it starts targeting fat. Ultimately, you should not be as concerned with weight loss on this diet as fat loss. The fact is, most people who lose weight and aren't exercising are not losing fat, they are losing muscle tissue, which is 4 times heavier than fat. That's sometimes why there is weight loss at such a high rate"






    Forgive me because I logged in and just copied and pasted with quotation marks :). I mostly agree with this quote and I have been doing nutritional and physical training research for the past seven years. Now my research comes from self study, yes I actually take the time to read the boring scientific studies created at multiple universities(both sides of the arguement).

    The differences I have with the post is when the word "Limited" was used. Ketosis is not harmful for long periods of times, which the defense is actually kind of stated in the next line. The poster goes on to state it is harmful because the state will use up all of your fat reserves and I agree losing all of your body fat can cause serious damage. The reason why it would not be harmful is because you are supposed to be on a high fat diet. If you fat intake is enough to sustain the proper nutrients needed for your organ functionality, then you don't have to worry about your body losing all of it's fat.

    I agree that you need exercise, if you don't use it you will lose it. Like being laid up in the hospital in a bed, you will have muscle deteriation even if you are eating enough protein. The amount of protein intake is highly debatable, at some point your body turns the excess amount of protein into sugar. Your body can only process so much protein just like your liver can only process 50 grams of carbs in one day, the rest just goes to body fat after that(with exception of endurance exercise where it restores glyocen reserves). I have read that anywhere from 25 grams per meal(about 75 to100 a day) to a 3:1 body weight ratio is the right amount of protein. I personally have deduced that the 75 to a 1:1 body weight ratio is the ideal protein intake depending on your level of exercise for the necessary muscle repair. Read up on the protein synthesis process for details on how the body actually repairs/grows your muscles.

    Ultimately I have found the number one problem in most diets and that is "SUGAR". Yes, you are going to get trace amounts from vegetables or low sugar berries( berries are more of a treat) but our body was never meant to use sugar as a macro nutrient. Basically are body was meant to run off of fat. Most people haven't read enough research on what sugar actually does to the body besides insulin sensitivity damage. Sugar invokes a process in our cells called "glycation", I am not sure if I have the right tense there. Glycation basically cause you cell to age, Yes people sugar makes our body age quicker. I will give a few references below for good nutritional information.

    Mark Sisson- very educated in the nutrition and physical fitness, people he does his research( actual research).

    Nora Gedgaudas- She writes a book that is highly technical(might be a hard read for people) Primal body, primal mind is the name of it(google it just to make sure, stuffed in my close somewhere :) ).

    Brad Pilon- He writes a nice piece on protien synthesis. I agree with a lot of his physical fitness ideals, just not much on the nutrtional side.

    That is just a few, if you don't want to do the actual research yourself they are pretty good and summing them up without any bias.
  • MermaidTX
    MermaidTX Posts: 352 Member
    Thank you! Good suggestion about swapping sugar for fiber. So you subtract fiber from total carbs and that is your net carbs, correct?

    That's how I track it. My diary is open if you want to check it out.

    Edit to add -- In the US labels include fiber in the carbs. In the UK (and maybe elsewhere) it's already subtracted.
  • Brad805
    Brad805 Posts: 289 Member
    If you are losing at 100g/d go with that for now. The lower carb idea takes some getting used to so and it is easiest to work your way into it. The 100g/d limit will keep you in ketosis during the first three to four weeks, but after the body conditions itself to this new nutrition plan that may not be the case. Being in ketosis is not really all that important anyway, so go with what works for you to maintain a consistent downward trend on the scale. Some experience different side effects when they go below 50g/d. Nothing dire, but they do have an impact on daily life for some.

    If you want to learn more about this nutrition plan I suggest Lyle McDonald's book (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet). Some of his other books are a better read, but this was one of his earlier books that is a bit more technical.
  • MelRC117
    MelRC117 Posts: 911 Member
    From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.
    Ketoacidosis is the acidic state. Not ketosis. As for bone-density: Studies are inconclusive - there are as many that correlate ketogenic diets with loss-of-bone density (correlation is NOT causation) as there are that show no measurable affect whatsoever.
    OK so ketones from ketosis are acidic and prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis. Why risk your bone density?
    Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.
    It depends on the individual. The clinically obese, especially as they get older, are more-prone to insulin-resistance than others. So even without a Dx of diabetes, the obese are often insulin-resistant and NEED to reduce carbohydrate.

    Insulin resistance causes high levels of circulating insulin in the blood, which is clinically shown to both 1) cause cravings for carbohydrate and 2) is the hormone responsible for ingested carbohydrate to be stored as fat.

    This is why so many obese people do well on a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) where others have failed them.

    For those that enjoy carbohydrate, usually as the weight comes off, they can gradually increase the carbohydrate consumption and maintain weight loss. Those that go OFF the VLCKD have a tendency to gain it all back. Talk to anyone that used to be 350+ lbs and maintained weight loss - the almost all exclusively stayed low-carb.

    They should eat slow digesting carbs with fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and they would lose weight.
    I doubt almost all of them are low carb. If they go off the diet they will most likely gain the weight back like you said and they have to eat more carbs eventually or risk dying from acidosis. There are far better alternatives to losing weight.
    Low carb is a lifestyle, not a diet. Just like watching your calories, etc. If you actually read anything about low carb diets you slowly incorporate more carb sources as you lose weight. Once you get to maintenance you can eat whole grains, fruit, etc.

    And if it was as easy as sticking to eating fruits, veggies and lean meats most people wouldn't be here.
  • MelRC117
    MelRC117 Posts: 911 Member
    I try to eat around 25-35 g of carbs...but that would be NET carbs. I don't try to go crazy though with sugar alcohols...I haven't noticed they affected my loss though. When I first did low carb I ate a banana every day with breakfast and was still losing. Once I get closer to my goal weight I will slowly add more carbs to my diet. I'd say if you are losing where you're at...stick with it.
  • scottlongpre3
    scottlongpre3 Posts: 1
    This should clear up all you bad info on the Keto diet.

    http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-dieting.html
  • deekod
    deekod Posts: 6 Member
    I am on 10% (50g) carb / 2000 max net calories per day, just starting out on the ketogenic diet. Thanks for the information re: UK carbs are net carbs - great tip! I am an endurance runner, so I am thinking after the carb flu symptoms have gone (hopefully soon!) then I will watch for signs of carb flu again and up my carb intake if required?
  • deekod
    deekod Posts: 6 Member
    Thanks for that link - an excellent resource!
  • jacmarmac
    jacmarmac Posts: 3 Member
    Heh. You have obviously never seen the results that come with a keto diet, nor have you done any research on the subject. Keto makes sense, it's a very scientific process. When your body is without carbs to burn for fuel, it begins burning fat instead. Maybe research a subject before you call it crazy?
  • sdefranc
    sdefranc Posts: 30 Member
    Heh. You have obviously never seen the results that come with a keto diet, nor have you done any research on the subject. Keto makes sense, it's a very scientific process. When your body is without carbs to burn for fuel, it begins burning fat instead. Maybe research a subject before you call it crazy?
    I agree, the keto diet is great and even should I transition to something a little more flexible down the track, I don't ever forsee carbs being a huge part of my diet, I've seen too many health benefits already from their exclusion to think about going back to that type of diet again.

    foodpyramidcomic.jpg
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    i'd say your garunteed to be in ketosis at 20 g a day. Thats nearly impossible for a lot of people. I had trouble staying under 40 when i was doing it, but i think i was in ketosis anyway.

    Personally, i did not see any advantage over any other diet at a reasonable calroie defecit.

    I think its best use is as a contest prep diet, to make weight for a something like a boxing match, or if for some reason you simply need to see the number on the scale go down. I say this because its extreamly good at forcing your body to eliminate water. this can dramatically lower the number on the scale, and make a real difference in how you look in the mirror, especially if your already lean and muscular.

    So in that way it is useful, but IMO doesn't make you burn fat any faster.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    Heh. You have obviously never seen the results that come with a keto diet, nor have you done any research on the subject. Keto makes sense, it's a very scientific process. When your body is without carbs to burn for fuel, it begins burning fat instead. Maybe research a subject before you call it crazy?

    true, but your still only going to burn fat at the rate at which you need the energy... same as any other diet.

    In my experience, it did not allow me to burn fat any faster... or slower for that matter.
  • thmgoodw
    thmgoodw Posts: 49
    Ketogenic Diets are crazy. Why not just eat mostly fruits and vegetables with moderate amounts of fat and protein?

    Because meat is the best? :-)

    OP: I don't track total carbs, just net carbs, and average around 25 net carbs per day.
  • pierrena
    pierrena Posts: 37
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    Gro Harlem Brundtland




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  • JoJo__Fit
    JoJo__Fit Posts: 258 Member
    I did between 20-30g on CKD and carb loaded friday till saturday night, I lost 8 lbs or so in 7 weeks, went from 19% bf to 15.8%. I stopped and started carbing up to add more muscle. But the first couple weeks were tough but I enjoyed it. Good Luck
  • sdefranc
    sdefranc Posts: 30 Member
    I've spend the last couple months doing a lot of in-depth research about ketosis, here's where I'm at:

    - I stay below 20g net carbs/day. Occasionally, I'll eat something that had more carbs than I expected (most recently it was cabbage) and go as high as 30g, but that's pretty rare because I usually put everything in MFP before I actually eat.
    - My MFP settings are 5% carbs, 25% protein, 70% fat. I eat ~1800 calories/day and drink 3+ liters of water and I've lost 25 lbs in the last 6 weeks with a completely sedentary lifestyle. (My calorie deficit is not nearly large enough to cause that much loss if keto doesn't work.) Due to old injuries, my knees and ankles hurt far too much for me to exercise until I lose more weight, so I literally sit at my desk 95% of the time.
    - The science is contrary to everything I've ever been taught by the American system, but it works. My weight is down. My blood pressure is down. My cholesterol is down. My energy level is up. I'm not hungry all the time like I used to be. Most importantly, I get to eat delicious foods that I love in the quantities I want.
    - My gall bladder failed and was removed 7 years ago and I've had near-constant intestinal pain since. Until starting keto. Now I feel great... No pain. No days spent in the fetal position on the brink of tears. (Used to happen at least once every 2 weeks.) No sprinting to the bathroom 15 minutes after every meal. My digestive system works like a normal person's should. (Ironically, the most common cause of gall bladder failure in young people is not eating enough fat. Less than 30 grams/day puts you at risk.)

    If you're still skeptical, listen to this guy: http://youtu.be/NqwvcrA7oe8

    My profile is very similar to yours apart from the gall bladder (although I was wrongly diagnosed with that at one point also). After years of trying different diets, which most I found difficult, I find this one increadibly easy, tasty, satiating, and have also seen the best results out of all. I'm now back to the weight I was at 18 (which was still more than it should have been, but it does say something).

    Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, I don't know, but I feel it's working for me now.

    Another great presentation to watch, although not specifically dealing with ketosis, is "The Oiling of America" given by Sally Fallon on youtube, it's easy to find. Especially to counter all the concerns people will fill your head with regarding a diet high in saturated fats (which with this type of diet, it should be - if you are using vegetable oils then you *really* need to watch that presentation).

    All the best

    Sam
  • Wilhellmina
    Wilhellmina Posts: 757 Member
    Thanks for the replies. I do keep my fat intake at 50% so I guess that should be helping. I'd have a hard time eating only 20g of carbs a day. That seems so low to me. My average is 87g, and I'm losing weight.

    Only 50% fat? Shouldn't that be higher with keto?
  • ladymiseryali
    ladymiseryali Posts: 2,555 Member
    Thanks for the replies. I do keep my fat intake at 50% so I guess that should be helping. I'd have a hard time eating only 20g of carbs a day. That seems so low to me. My average is 87g, and I'm losing weight.

    Only 50% fat? Shouldn't that be higher with keto?

    Correct. 75% fat is a better percentage.
  • lighteningjeanne855
    lighteningjeanne855 Posts: 566 Member
    I'm so glad this topic is on the forums today. I have been curious.
    I was on a plateau after losing 47 pounds, so I thought I'd try the nine-day Carb Cycle.
    I put my carbs down to 21 --period--.
    I've had no craving for vegetables and fruits,
    although I dearly love them. There are no hunger pangs, either.
    I'm eating all the calories for my present goal weight of 230,
    which is 1700 (BMR). My macros are 70% fat, 25% fat, and 5% carbs.
    Tomorrow, Christmas, is my feasting day--YEAH!>
    I thought I'd do at least 3 cycles to see what happens.
    My concern is that all the protein might give my diabetic kidneys trouble
    with my creatinine leverls.
    Any comments? Thanks in advance!

    Best wishes!
  • HannahInHawaii
    HannahInHawaii Posts: 173 Member
    I've recently cut out all sugary drinks and have been that way for 14 days now. I am tasting that "ketosis" breath and I'm wondering if this is possible seeing as how I am eating 100g+ of carbs a day. Anyone?
  • Cakewalk25
    Cakewalk25 Posts: 71 Member
    I've had this problem too! Though I'm not sure if it's ketosis as it tastes more metallic than sweet and my mouth feels really dry but it definitely started after I changed my diet. I cut way back on carbs but I'm still eating about 100-120 a day mostly in fruit and vegetables.
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
    Bumping to read later

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