Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
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Can there just be a rule that whenever someone used the term "addiction" that they put it in quotations or say a it is a psychological addiction or feels like an addiction, or for not better word, it is an so-called "addiction'? Or can we be kind and just ASSUME that is what they meant???? The discussions on this board about ADDICTION as in the DSM V Substance Use and Addictive Disorders definitions is inane, full of misconceptions and inaccuracy and has NOTHING to do with weight gain, loss, lean body mass, fat, love or sugar or fast food or otherwise. BTW though, they do concede there is probably a caffeine addiction, but they aren't addressing it in V.
sure I don't know when this whole thread became a thread about alcoholism or drug addiction anyway - all this banter never did anything to help the OP :bigsmile:0 -
I was talking about ACTIVE alcoholics I have known in my life, when they were not drinking, they were eating things like candy, ice cream, etc.Alcoholics are given sugar when they have the DTs because it is the sugar in the alcohol that their bodies are craving.
Pretty sure it's the alcohol.
Caffeine is also used in alcohol detox, and there ain't much of that in alcohol.
Gee whiz.
Most alcoholics don't drink 24/7, the ones I have known eat sugar on the "off" days.
I wasn't replying to anything you posted, so I have no idea what you were referring to.
The reason alcoholics get dips in blood sugar when they stop drinking is that the body ceases to maintain normal blood glucose levels when it tries to rid itself of alcohol. This is also why most people will binge eat after consuming large amounts of alcohol.
Thank you for clarifying that. When someone mentioned this, I was curious as to why ehh hemmm....some alcoholics that I know of, always eat tons of sweet things when they're not drinking. Although, I didn't think it was because they were addicted to sugar instead of alcohol... lolz
Gross generalizations. I don't know a lot of alcoholics personally, but have worked with hundreds professionally. One thing you learn is that everyone is different and like mental illness, their disease manifests itself uniquely.0 -
Actually recent studies have revealed that there is a level of measurable physical withdrawal symptoms in rats when abstaining from a diet that was once high in sugars, in particular refined sugars such as HFCS. Much like someone suffering from depression the brain experience a drop in dopamine levels.
It is also noted in some studies that there is an opiod like effect in the brain that is used to a high sugar intake when they are stopped from sugar and then re introduced to it.
As I have seen so many bored morons getting all up in arms about linking the actual reports please find below the results of one such study of this occurrence in rats. Before anyone says "that's just rats" please remember that if they did these studies on humans they would be locked in a cell (at least if anyone found out about it ;-) ).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S00319384050000650 -
Can there just be a rule that whenever someone used the term "addiction" that they put it in quotations or say a it is a psychological addiction or feels like an addiction, or for not better word, it is an so-called "addiction'? Or can we be kind and just ASSUME that is what they meant???? The discussions on this board about ADDICTION as in the DSM V Substance Use and Addictive Disorders definitions is inane, full of misconceptions and inaccuracy and has NOTHING to do with weight gain, loss, lean body mass, fat, love or sugar or fast food or otherwise. BTW though, they do concede there is probably a caffeine addiction, but they aren't addressing it in V.
sure I don't know when this whole thread became a thread about alcoholism or drug addiction anyway - all this banter never did anything to help the OP :bigsmile:
It is what happens everytime someone casually throws the "A" word around. They MUST be corrected.0 -
Actually, now, looking at the list of courses, none of them seem to be about research in any capacity. Maybe epidemiology, sort of, but not really. None of them have anything to do with clinical research, publication, interpretation of results, etc. They're all simply didactic courses about learning facts, not learning anything about the actual process of science.
Rather than critiquing someone's course load, would it be too much to ask to actually quote the passages from the researchers that you think support your position? For what it's worth, I don't see people misrepresenting what the students that performed the study in question said, at least in their press release. For example, from the professor supervising the research:"This correlated well with our behavioral results and lends support to the hypothesis that high-fat/ high sugar foods can be thought of as addictive," said Schroeder.
While I agree the fox news article isn't the best source to cite to, you aren't citing to any source whatsoever. You're simply attacking the person you disagree with and their coursework.
Hahaha exactly. They just LOVE starting drama and picking fights anywhere they find possible. Thanks buddy!
"Jonnythan" or whatever the hell his name is life revolves around attacking me on every single forum possible. It's okay, I've requested he be removed from the site multiple times for not only attacking me, but a number of other individuals who don't agree with his opinions. He simply can't handle people not agreeing with him or not being right for once in his precious life.
And yet I'm still here.
You referred to a Fox News post about a press release about an unpublished study without peer review as "scientific proof." I'm not the only one who saw the absurdity of that.
Slap 'em with a Bacon Ranch McDouble Down Johny.... that'll fix 'em.
I was wondering when this would turn to a 'mean people' thread.
Completely offtopic, but since it was requested:
Not if I get there first!!! >:(0 -
OP - this will shock you I know ..but you can eat sugar and lose weight, just make sure that you hit your macro targets and eat in a caloric deficit.
the 80/20 rule is helpful…808% healthy, 20% whatever you want ..ice cream, pizza, cookies, etc…
Labeling foods as "bad" is a sure fire way to end up on the path of repeated failure.
While I agree from the standpoint that yes you can lose weight in this way looking at it from a pure caloric standpoint, I do believe that there is a possibility of addiction based on the link I posted earlier to Fat Chance: Fructose 2.0 (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y).
I also base this also off of how I feel when I have a bit of an over-abundance of sugar in my diet nowadays, but most especially how I felt and had actual PHYSICAL symptoms of withdrawals even before starting on MFP and starting to learn about nutrition. I was completely oblivious and unable to be affected by a "placebo" effect of the withdrawal symptoms I was feeling when I cut out a lot of the sugars from my diet when I started because I had no idea at the time that there may have even been something I was "coming down" off of.
Granted none of this is to say that I try to cut out sugars completely from my diet 100% of the time. Every week I have a one or two days that I eat some pizza or have icecream or whatev. I refuse to cut something out of my diet 100% of the time, period. I like my pizza too much, or my ice cream to give it up 100% lol!
Watch the video in full before criticizing any further (or just criticize anyway for the trolls sake). Please also provide me links to the scientific studies on how sugar doesn't have any sort of addictive qualities. I would love to read and/or watch some informative documentaries trying to prove otherwise.
aaaaaaand NEED MOAR POPCORN!...
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Gross generalizations. I don't know a lot of alcoholics personally, but have worked with hundreds professionally. One thing you learn is that everyone is different and like mental illness, their disease manifests itself uniquely.
[/quote]
yes I would agree with that - we don't give them candy in jail sooooooo lmao - anyway the ones I know personally and there are only two off the top of my head can eat whatever the hell they want and not gain an ounce (irritating) 0 -
I know right, gods the number of *****Y males on this forum lol
Furthemore I linked an actual study of the measurable symptoms of a physical addiction to sugar found in controlled studies of rats that I wonder if those men who have been all "I'm smarter than you, link a peer reviewed study, blah blah blah" will actually read said peer-reviewed study.
The fact is this is a forum for people to share their thought and idea's and encouragement not attack each other on their academic performance. Not everyone is an academic, so what if they read it on fox news. They were just trying to help lol
Gah *gets the wooden spoon out and taps it menacingly against one hand* Naughty chair, the lot of them.Can there just be a rule that whenever someone used the term "addiction" that they put it in quotations or say a it is a psychological addiction or feels like an addiction, or for not better word, it is an so-called "addiction'? Or can we be kind and just ASSUME that is what they meant???? The discussions on this board about ADDICTION as in the DSM V Substance Use and Addictive Disorders definitions is inane, full of misconceptions and inaccuracy and has NOTHING to do with weight gain, loss, lean body mass, fat, love or sugar or fast food or otherwise. BTW though, they do concede there is probably a caffeine addiction, but they aren't addressing it in V.
sure I don't know when this whole thread became a thread about alcoholism or drug addiction anyway - all this banter never did anything to help the OP :bigsmile:0 -
^^^^ ain't that the truth! Drinking just made me fatter.0
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Actually, now, looking at the list of courses, none of them seem to be about research in any capacity. Maybe epidemiology, sort of, but not really. None of them have anything to do with clinical research, publication, interpretation of results, etc. They're all simply didactic courses about learning facts, not learning anything about the actual process of science.
Rather than critiquing someone's course load, would it be too much to ask to actually quote the passages from the researchers that you think support your position? For what it's worth, I don't see people misrepresenting what the students that performed the study in question said, at least in their press release. For example, from the professor supervising the research:"This correlated well with our behavioral results and lends support to the hypothesis that high-fat/ high sugar foods can be thought of as addictive," said Schroeder.
While I agree the fox news article isn't the best source to cite to, you aren't citing to any source whatsoever. You're simply attacking the person you disagree with and their coursework.
Hahaha exactly. They just LOVE starting drama and picking fights anywhere they find possible. Thanks buddy!
"Jonnythan" or whatever the hell his name is life revolves around attacking me on every single forum possible. It's okay, I've requested he be removed from the site multiple times for not only attacking me, but a number of other individuals who don't agree with his opinions. He simply can't handle people not agreeing with him or not being right for once in his precious life.
And yet I'm still here.
You referred to a Fox News post about a press release about an unpublished study without peer review as "scientific proof." I'm not the only one who saw the absurdity of that.
Sorry I have more important things to do than be a condescending wise guy on MFP forums all day long. I don't have the time to search the internet to get the primary sources just so you can keep quiet and leave me alone.
aren't you the debunked health professional from the ketone thread?
Yes, the "health professional" who has been 110 lbs 15% body fat all her life, but is now 25-28% body fat with 50 lbs to lose. Her dad is a doctor, and she's an undergrad who got a cert as a radiation therapist. And just look at all those science courses she's taken. Her team of doctors all told her to take raspberry ketones.
I want it to be clear that these statements are all virtually verbatim things that she's told us in the past couple of days. Unfortunately the threads are gone, otherwise I'd just link to them.
she also recommended green tea for weight loss..
yes, I saw the posts and will vouch for what you said..0 -
OP - this will shock you I know ..but you can eat sugar and lose weight, just make sure that you hit your macro targets and eat in a caloric deficit.
the 80/20 rule is helpful…808% healthy, 20% whatever you want ..ice cream, pizza, cookies, etc…
Labeling foods as "bad" is a sure fire way to end up on the path of repeated failure.
While I agree from the standpoint that yes you can lose weight in this way looking at it from a pure caloric standpoint, I do believe that there is a possibility of addiction based on the link I posted earlier to Fat Chance: Fructose 2.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y).
I also base this also off of how I feel when I have a bit of an over-abundance of sugar in my diet nowadays, but most especially how I felt and had actual PHYSICAL symptoms of withdrawals even before starting on MFP and starting to learn about nutrition. I was completely oblivious and unable to be affected by a "placebo" effect of the withdrawal symptoms I was feeling when I cut out a lot of the sugars from my diet when I started because I had no idea at the time that there may have even been something I was "coming down" off of.
Granted none of this is to say that I try to cut out sugars completely from my diet 100% of the time. Every week I have a one or two days that I eat some pizza or have icecream or whatev. I refuse to cut something out of my diet 100% of the time, period. I like my pizza too much, or my ice cream to give it up 100% lol!
Watch the video in full before criticizing any further (or just criticize anyway for the trolls sake). Please also provide me links to the scientific studies on how sugar doesn't have any sort of addictive qualities. I would love to read and/or watch some informative documentaries trying to prove otherwise.
aaaaaaand NEED MOAR POPCORN!...
just clarify one thing…You are addicted to sugar, but now eat sugar? or you were never addicted to sugar, but believe in said addiction..?0 -
OP - this will shock you I know ..but you can eat sugar and lose weight, just make sure that you hit your macro targets and eat in a caloric deficit.
the 80/20 rule is helpful…808% healthy, 20% whatever you want ..ice cream, pizza, cookies, etc…
Labeling foods as "bad" is a sure fire way to end up on the path of repeated failure.
While I agree from the standpoint that yes you can lose weight in this way looking at it from a pure caloric standpoint, I do believe that there is a possibility of addiction based on the link I posted earlier to Fat Chance: Fructose 2.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y).
I also base this also off of how I feel when I have a bit of an over-abundance of sugar in my diet nowadays, but most especially how I felt and had actual PHYSICAL symptoms of withdrawals even before starting on MFP and starting to learn about nutrition. I was completely oblivious and unable to be affected by a "placebo" effect of the withdrawal symptoms I was feeling when I cut out a lot of the sugars from my diet when I started because I had no idea at the time that there may have even been something I was "coming down" off of.
Granted none of this is to say that I try to cut out sugars completely from my diet 100% of the time. Every week I have a one or two days that I eat some pizza or have icecream or whatev. I refuse to cut something out of my diet 100% of the time, period. I like my pizza too much, or my ice cream to give it up 100% lol!
Watch the video in full before criticizing any further (or just criticize anyway for the trolls sake). Please also provide me links to the scientific studies on how sugar doesn't have any sort of addictive qualities. I would love to read and/or watch some informative documentaries trying to prove otherwise.
aaaaaaand NEED MOAR POPCORN!...
just clarify one thing…You are addicted to sugar, but now eat sugar? or you were never addicted to sugar, but believe in said addiction..?
Heh, it's the quantity and frequency of intake my friend. There's been enough studies to show alcoholism is a physical addiction, but yet there's plenty of us that have the occasional drink and don't get addicted. How about Vicodin? There are those that need to take Vicodin occasionally for certain non-chronic pain who don't get addicted to Vicodin, but those that end up having to take Vicodin on a daily basis end up getting an addiction do to the frequency and quantity of what they take.
So you're saying that alcohol and Vicodin obviously can't be addictive since people can have them sometimes and not instantly be addicted?
For that matter, take what I just said and apply it to any other kind of drug. Cigarrettes and nicotine. I can smoke a cig every week or two (or in my case smoke hookah) and never get addicted. If I were to smoke it every single day, what do you think will happen?0 -
I have similar problems with eating too many sweets and being a stress/ bored eater. I find drinking lots of tea, drinking hot cocoa when I have a chocolate craving, and chewing gum helps. It is never easy, but keep going before you know it things will be too SWEET for your tastes!! Take one day at a time.0
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I'm addicted to this thread .... it's like crack honestly :ohwell:0
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Excuse me? During the process of fermentation, yeast breaks sugar down into ethanol and carbon dioxide, so it started out as...sugar.
Pretty sure huh? You a recovering alcoholic? You work in rehab? If you have no idea what you are talking about, its a pretty good idea to keep quiet.
Well, my father was an alcoholic, but no.
I don't need to be an alcoholic or work in a rehab clinic to know you're talking crap. No offence.
Alcohol is not sugar, nor a form of sugar, and your body doesn't turn it into sugar.0 -
I can totally empathize. I can eat a whole dozen of Krispy Kreme glazed donuts by myself until I saw 4 great documentaries that I would recommend you watch. It totally changed my way of thinking and eating habits.
1. Fat Sick and Nearly Dead - I wouldn't recommend juicing alone because there's potential for a sugar spike/crash and you get hungrier. I would, however, recommend blending your vegetables and add 1/2 of a fruit (apple or orange) to it with ice to make a healthy smoothie. I would snack on a fruit during the day and no fruit in the evening. By blending, you get the fiber into your diet, which is very important because it keeps you fuller longer and also naturally detox and cleanse your digestive system.
2. Forks over knives. Great documentary based on scientifically proven data.
3. Food matters - provide great understanding that sugar or fat craving is built into all the processed foods to keep you addicted like a drug.
4. Gerson Miracle.
My diet contain 80% vegetables, 10% fruits and 10% protein. I don't eat meat anymore and I haven't felt hungry or have sugar craving. I actually feel full and less heavy. I no longer buy juices from the store because I blend my fruit juices at home.
I hope this help.0 -
This thread has been going on forever. I think it really boils down to this. You either have an addictive personality, or you don't. Genetically, some people are more prone to have addictive behaviors than others. I personally come from a long line of addicts, and I do have an addictive personality, however, thankfully, my need to control everything keeps me from being addicted to drugs.
It's not just sugar that people are having a difficult time dealing with, it's the carbs. Because they taste good, and if you add an addictive personality to the mix, it makes it difficult not to over do it. Carbs are in just about everything though, and if you cut out carbs, you cut out a lot of foods, that can be delicious and nutritious. I think pretty much all of us who have "issues with food" are probably all somewhat screwed up in the first place....or maybe that's just me. The real issue here is not carbs, but self control, and habits, and the ability to control yourself with anything in life that gives you pleasure. If people want to go cutting carbs to try n do a quick fix for this problem, then go for it. But I've been there n done that, and it does not work. Not permanently anyway, because like I said, it's a quick fix, that doesn't solve the real problem. The underlying addictive behaviors, or other issues with food, such as emotional eating, mindless eating, and all that jazz. If it tastes good, and you feel you have to eat the entire bag, or jar, or whatever, every time, then there's probably something more serious going on, and maybe you should seek some help. That sounds more like an eating disorder. I wish everyone good luck, and whatever you decide to do, I hope it works for you now, and in the long run. 0 -
OP - this will shock you I know ..but you can eat sugar and lose weight, just make sure that you hit your macro targets and eat in a caloric deficit.
the 80/20 rule is helpful…808% healthy, 20% whatever you want ..ice cream, pizza, cookies, etc…
Labeling foods as "bad" is a sure fire way to end up on the path of repeated failure.
While I agree from the standpoint that yes you can lose weight in this way looking at it from a pure caloric standpoint, I do believe that there is a possibility of addiction based on the link I posted earlier to Fat Chance: Fructose 2.0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y).
I also base this also off of how I feel when I have a bit of an over-abundance of sugar in my diet nowadays, but most especially how I felt and had actual PHYSICAL symptoms of withdrawals even before starting on MFP and starting to learn about nutrition. I was completely oblivious and unable to be affected by a "placebo" effect of the withdrawal symptoms I was feeling when I cut out a lot of the sugars from my diet when I started because I had no idea at the time that there may have even been something I was "coming down" off of.
Granted none of this is to say that I try to cut out sugars completely from my diet 100% of the time. Every week I have a one or two days that I eat some pizza or have icecream or whatev. I refuse to cut something out of my diet 100% of the time, period. I like my pizza too much, or my ice cream to give it up 100% lol!
Watch the video in full before criticizing any further (or just criticize anyway for the trolls sake). Please also provide me links to the scientific studies on how sugar doesn't have any sort of addictive qualities. I would love to read and/or watch some informative documentaries trying to prove otherwise.
aaaaaaand NEED MOAR POPCORN!...
just clarify one thing…You are addicted to sugar, but now eat sugar? or you were never addicted to sugar, but believe in said addiction..?
Heh, it's the quantity and frequency of intake my friend. There's been enough studies to show alcoholism is a physical addiction, but yet there's plenty of us that have the occasional drink and don't get addicted. How about Vicodin? There are those that need to take Vicodin occasionally for certain non-chronic pain who don't get addicted to Vicodin, but those that end up having to take Vicodin on a daily basis end up getting an addiction do to the frequency and quantity of what they take.
So you're saying that alcohol and Vicodin obviously can't be addictive since people can have them sometimes and not instantly be addicted?
You did not answer my question…typical way to avoid a question you do not want to answer. Deflect the point, turn it back on the person asking the question, and then ask them a question that has nothing to do with original question.
But I will play your game. Once one is defined as an alcoholic then they are an alcoholic for life. I do not know any alcoholics that have stopped drinking, and can go back to an ocassional drink. If they do it leads to disaster and they have to go back into rehab. Sure some people can drink alcohol and not get addicted. I don't know how this pertains to my question to you. I simply asked if you are saying the following:
a - you are addicted to sugar, and now use it occasionally?
b - you are not addicted to sugar but believe in said addiction?
Pretty simple questions...0 -
Gross generalizations. I don't know a lot of alcoholics personally, but have worked with hundreds professionally. One thing you learn is that everyone is different and like mental illness, their disease manifests itself uniquely.
By no means was anybody saying this is indicative of all alcoholics, everywhere.
Whilst the symptoms of alcohol abuse manifests itself differently in different people, the underlying mechanism remains largely the same.
Chronic alcoholics will often drink in lieu of consuming adequate amounts of food, as I'm sure you know... which ultimately can lead to a low-carb diet. If this is the case, the body's glycogen stores deplete much more quickly with the resumption of drinking, because it re-interferes with the body's hormonal and/or hepatic ability to synthesise glucose, in addition to not getting much or any from food.
Over time it'll lead to insulin resistance and hyperglycaemia, and eventually (pre-)diabetes. Unique selling point of hypoglycaemia being that even short periods of low blood glucose levels can cause brain damage. The same can't be said for sherbet sticks.0 -
I'm addicted to this thread .... it's like crack honestly :ohwell:
Lol...me too. :laugh:0
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