OMG Everything I know is wrong!

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  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    Everyone thinks they are experts that know more than the actual experts.
  • Yanicka1
    Yanicka1 Posts: 4,564 Member
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    In. I hope OP will give us an update in a month ;)
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    Everyone thinks they are experts that know more than the actual experts.

    I don't think I'm an expert, I just think there is always an opportunity to learn, and I've learned a lot from people right here on MFP who know what they are talking about. It should be hard to disregard actual science when arguing that eating more calories will help you lose weight, but we've seen today that people like to do just that. Keep an open mind and try to glean something from people who have done the research and know the truth.
  • swolequestrian
    swolequestrian Posts: 7
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    Okay, guys, enough with the 'tell the starving african children' ****.

    There's a difference between consuming a decent amount of food that's not nearly ENOUGH and ACTUALLY starving in a third world country.

    EDIT:

    I'd also be far more inclined to listen to a professional, with perhaps a second opinion, than the MFP forum quoting articles that may or may not be peer reviewed, may or may not be accurate, mayo r may not be biased, may or may not even exist...
    There's no difference between not eating enough here and not eating enough in Africa. People like to trot out the "starvation mode" theory every time they think they are eating at a deficit and don't lose weight. The truth is that if you eat in a deficit, you lose weight. Anorexics right here in America prove this every day by not eating enough. Their bodies continue to break down their muscle when the fat storage is gone and they continue to lose weight, even though they continue to eat a deficit. Bottom line: if you do not eat enough, you lose weight. Period.
    Not all medical professionals are perfect, they are just people. And they can only give you answers based on the information you give them. If that information is incorrect, they will be wrong as well. People on here have often done years of research themselves, or work as fitness advisors, or nutrtionists themselves. You can't discount someone's opinion just because they don't have a medical doctorate. Physics is fact.

    If you think the diet of someone suffering from anorexia, or the diet of a malnourished person in an impoverished nation are even remotely similar, I have news for you....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    Someone needs to call Warren Buffett and tell him about the MFP forums!!!!!!! (and google)

    He should get his CEOs and Board Members here instead of places like stupid Universities and people with real life work experience!

    so you have to be a CEO or board member to figure out that consuming more calories then you burn will not lead to weight loss? Really?
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
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    It doesn't really make sense for her to say you can't lose weight because you aren't eating enough calories. If you aren't eating enough calories you should be having trouble with losing too much weight, including lean muscle. You should weigh everything you eat and calculate how many calories you need using your TDEE, and then eat below that to lose weight. If you aren't losing weight it's because you are calculating your intake incorrectly and not eating at a deficit.

    This. Quoted for truth.

    It does make sense...if you do not fuel your body properly it will hold on to EVERYTHING it has. It's like a car, the farther you go the more gas it needs. Simple.

    Your car doesn't hold onto fuel just because it's low on gas, though. It burns through it, regardless.

    Your body is not a perpetual motion machine. There are hundreds of thousands of processes the body goes through on a daily basis that all require fuel.

    Body fat, muscle mass, and food = fuel. If you're not getting enough food, your body makes up the difference by cannibalising a combination of body fat and muscle mass. That is the very mechanism of weight loss.

    Yes, it will downregulate. But only to a point. It will not hang onto fat or lean mass if that fuel is the only thing available for it to keep itself functioning.
  • swolequestrian
    swolequestrian Posts: 7
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    "Real starvation occurs after extended periods of time (weeks or months) of eating less than the body requires to function per day.

    Your body does not go into starvation mode until it’s fat reserves are completely exhausted and protein is the only fuel source left. This takes place quicker in a leaner person since the fat reserves are depleted quicker. Generally, this should not even be a concern until you are at 5% body fat, for a man, or 10% body fat for a woman."

    The fact that it doesn't exist by the dramatic definition most people think it exist does not mean it isn't a thing. Given her supposed situation, I wouldn't discount it because other people have been wrong about it before.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    Okay, guys, enough with the 'tell the starving african children' ****.

    There's a difference between consuming a decent amount of food that's not nearly ENOUGH and ACTUALLY starving in a third world country.

    EDIT:

    I'd also be far more inclined to listen to a professional, with perhaps a second opinion, than the MFP forum quoting articles that may or may not be peer reviewed, may or may not be accurate, mayo r may not be biased, may or may not even exist...
    There's no difference between not eating enough here and not eating enough in Africa. People like to trot out the "starvation mode" theory every time they think they are eating at a deficit and don't lose weight. The truth is that if you eat in a deficit, you lose weight. Anorexics right here in America prove this every day by not eating enough. Their bodies continue to break down their muscle when the fat storage is gone and they continue to lose weight, even though they continue to eat a deficit. Bottom line: if you do not eat enough, you lose weight. Period.
    Not all medical professionals are perfect, they are just people. And they can only give you answers based on the information you give them. If that information is incorrect, they will be wrong as well. People on here have often done years of research themselves, or work as fitness advisors, or nutrtionists themselves. You can't discount someone's opinion just because they don't have a medical doctorate. Physics is fact.

    If you think the diet of someone suffering from anorexia, or the diet of a malnourished person in an impoverished nation are even remotely similar, I have news for you....

    that is not the point..

    the point is whether your calorie restrict yourself here, or in Africa, you will lose weight. The degree of restriction does not matter, it just matters that one is in fact, restricting calories.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    Okay, guys, enough with the 'tell the starving african children' ****.

    There's a difference between consuming a decent amount of food that's not nearly ENOUGH and ACTUALLY starving in a third world country.

    EDIT:

    I'd also be far more inclined to listen to a professional, with perhaps a second opinion, than the MFP forum quoting articles that may or may not be peer reviewed, may or may not be accurate, mayo r may not be biased, may or may not even exist...
    There's no difference between not eating enough here and not eating enough in Africa. People like to trot out the "starvation mode" theory every time they think they are eating at a deficit and don't lose weight. The truth is that if you eat in a deficit, you lose weight. Anorexics right here in America prove this every day by not eating enough. Their bodies continue to break down their muscle when the fat storage is gone and they continue to lose weight, even though they continue to eat a deficit. Bottom line: if you do not eat enough, you lose weight. Period.
    Not all medical professionals are perfect, they are just people. And they can only give you answers based on the information you give them. If that information is incorrect, they will be wrong as well. People on here have often done years of research themselves, or work as fitness advisors, or nutrtionists themselves. You can't discount someone's opinion just because they don't have a medical doctorate. Physics is fact.

    If you think the diet of someone suffering from anorexia, or the diet of a malnourished person in an impoverished nation are even remotely similar, I have news for you....

    I don't care if they're not eating grain or not eating bananas or not eating dirt. If they're not eating they're not eating. Period. and they lose weight. and their bodies don't "hold on" to anything to keep them from starving. When they lose enough weight, they die. In daily life here in America, if you don't eat as many calories as you burn, you lose weight. If you eat the same calories as you burn, you maintain. If you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight. That's how the body works. Human, dog, bird, it doesn't matter. It's a scientfic fact. If you are not losing weight, you are not eating fewer calories than you are burning.
  • bubbaduts
    bubbaduts Posts: 196 Member
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    I have been on MFP for over 3 years and initially lost 77 pounds FAST! But I have been stuck for 2 years of gaining and losing the same 10-15! I thought I had a health issue so I saw my Dr. she ran every test in the book and said I was healthy but decided to send me to a nutritionist because of my symptoms. I met with the sports nutritionist and man oh man was I wrong about what I thought my body needed! She looked at my MFP food and exercise diaries and then told me I was eating the calories of a 90 year old grandma and no wonder I can't lose weight. With the running Mileage I do a week alone I should be eating 3100 calories a day and 75 percent carbs! Not to mention the other exercise! I was floored I am still having a hard time believing her but an 8 year degree in sports nutrition can't be wrong. She explained that I am no longer the 270+ pound girl that started, I am a marathon runner and an athlete now and if i dont eat like one my body will fight back. I will be using MFP to help me up my calories and get my carbs in but I think I am finally ready to transition to the athlete I am! I just wanted to post this just in case there is anyone else that is facing the same problem of not losing.

    I am confused ( especially since I have worked with an MA in Nutrition for 30 plus years in the field ). There is no such thing as not losing , because a person does not ingest enough calories. If that were true the concentration and refugee camps of the past and present would have been full of fat people.
    You say you started out at 270 plus pounds, you have lost around 77, you are yo-yo-ing 10-15 pounds, which means you are still 200 pounds and over. With all due respect that is not the weight of a high performance runner. Of course it is difficult to give any details, because you did not mentioned your stats. If you are around 6 feet tall or more you might need 3100 calories, but I personally would be concerned about the 75% carbs. If you have the typical runner's height and especially if you are still overweight and if you want to keep those 15 pounds you are battling down for good, I would eat less carbs, more protein and beneficial fat, because just carbs at those quantities will not keep you healthy and in good shape.
    I don't want to tell you what to do, but personally would probably go to another specialist or at least would get a second opinion, because some of her advise just does not make sense to me.

    I am 5'9 and 187 pounds around 28% body fat. The origional post was supposed to say 70% carbs not 75 but i cannot edit it now. When i started MFP I was smaller than starting weight so hence the weight loss ticker. When I went to see her I was eating a very low carb diet which was affecting me in other ways IE: falling asleep at 8pm not feeling refreshed in the morning waking at 7 AM. Hence why I thought I had a thyroid issue. She is sending me next month for a follow up with the head sports nutritionist at another location who specializes in professional athletes.
  • swolequestrian
    swolequestrian Posts: 7
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response

    here you go, sourced from articles you can actually look up and fact check!
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    Everyone thinks they are experts that know more than the actual experts.

    so you have to be an expert to figure out calories in vs calories out? that is basic math..
  • swolequestrian
    swolequestrian Posts: 7
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    Okay, guys, enough with the 'tell the starving african children' ****.

    There's a difference between consuming a decent amount of food that's not nearly ENOUGH and ACTUALLY starving in a third world country.

    EDIT:

    I'd also be far more inclined to listen to a professional, with perhaps a second opinion, than the MFP forum quoting articles that may or may not be peer reviewed, may or may not be accurate, mayo r may not be biased, may or may not even exist...
    There's no difference between not eating enough here and not eating enough in Africa. People like to trot out the "starvation mode" theory every time they think they are eating at a deficit and don't lose weight. The truth is that if you eat in a deficit, you lose weight. Anorexics right here in America prove this every day by not eating enough. Their bodies continue to break down their muscle when the fat storage is gone and they continue to lose weight, even though they continue to eat a deficit. Bottom line: if you do not eat enough, you lose weight. Period.
    Not all medical professionals are perfect, they are just people. And they can only give you answers based on the information you give them. If that information is incorrect, they will be wrong as well. People on here have often done years of research themselves, or work as fitness advisors, or nutrtionists themselves. You can't discount someone's opinion just because they don't have a medical doctorate. Physics is fact.

    If you think the diet of someone suffering from anorexia, or the diet of a malnourished person in an impoverished nation are even remotely similar, I have news for you....

    I don't care if they're not eating grain or not eating bananas or not eating dirt. If they're not eating they're not eating. Period. and they lose weight. and their bodies don't "hold on" to anything to keep them from starving. When they lose enough weight, they die. In daily life here in America, if you don't eat as many calories as you burn, you lose weight. If you eat the same calories as you burn, you maintain. If you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight. That's how the body works. Human, dog, bird, it doesn't matter. It's a scientfic fact. If you are not losing weight, you are not eating fewer calories than you are burning.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response

    just gonna leave a bunch of fact checkable sources here once more and walk away.

    Just gonna note that these forums are soo frequently bordering on unhealthy recommendations and the sort of startling attentiveness to detail that spirals into disordered eating and exercise....
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    Everyone thinks they are experts that know more than the actual experts.

    I don't think I'm an expert, I just think there is always an opportunity to learn, and I've learned a lot from people right here on MFP who know what they are talking about. It should be hard to disregard actual science when arguing that eating more calories will help you lose weight, but we've seen today that people like to do just that. Keep an open mind and try to glean something from people who have done the research and know the truth.

    I do. That's why I don't look to the MFP forums for science.
  • eat_run_play
    eat_run_play Posts: 30 Member
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    honestly it might be better to hang out at your current weight for a while. sometimes the body just rests at a certain weight for a while and then if you are meant to lose weight again you will. usually for most of us we want to be at a weight that is too low. i wanted to be at 120 lb but my body wants to be at 130-135. that's just how it is. i've accepted it. you have lost a lot of weight, maybe just try and be happy with that. obviously something you did worked and you got some results. judging from your profile picture, you look great! just be happy.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    trust me i've tried every "low calorie" way to lose weight in the past including weighing all my food. It doesn't work because it's not enough food. I'm sorry but as much as I appreciate your advice I think I will listen to the person who has a degree based around this since doing the low calorie thing isn't working.

    Ask this nutritionist to explain simple physics -- how does your body create energy from nothing?
  • NeverCatchYourBreath
    NeverCatchYourBreath Posts: 197 Member
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    It doesn't really make sense for her to say you can't lose weight because you aren't eating enough calories. If you aren't eating enough calories you should be having trouble with losing too much weight, including lean muscle. You should weigh everything you eat and calculate how many calories you need using your TDEE, and then eat below that to lose weight. If you aren't losing weight it's because you are calculating your intake incorrectly and not eating at a deficit.

    This. Quoted for truth.

    It does make sense...if you do not fuel your body properly it will hold on to EVERYTHING it has. It's like a car, the farther you go the more gas it needs. Simple.
    Except when your car runs out of gas, it stops running. It doesn't hold on to some gas because it's going to run out. your body CAN NOT hold on to stored fat if you are not eating enough to provide it fuel to convert to energy, it has to break some part of your body down for that. If it isn't fat, it's muscle that gets broken down and used.

    Because a car is a man made object. Your body isn't. Of course the car will run out of gas. Your body on the other hand, will attempt it's best shot at holding on to the fat you've got and use the food coming in as energy. When the food gets to be scarce (such a for children in Etheopia, I believe is an example someone used) then the body MUST resort to breaking down the fat cells and muscle cells it has on hand. But if the body is continually getting a source of nurioushment in then it's going to use that first, b/c it's easiest to get to.
  • bubbaduts
    bubbaduts Posts: 196 Member
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    HOLY HECK this was not meant to start an argument it was meant as a hey if you aren't losing maybe you should go see a nutritionist and get a plan put together for you and see where it goes from there. I appreciate everyone's concern but like I've said this was put together during an hour long consult and I didn't lie to her about my habits or eating or working out because that is just counter productive. I personally don't want to weigh my food or count my calories for the rest of my life and would love to learn to eat for my body and this was me taking a step to do just that. Good luck to all those out there that don't agree with seeking real professional help I hope you are able to lose and keep it off for the rest of your life.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    It doesn't really make sense for her to say you can't lose weight because you aren't eating enough calories. If you aren't eating enough calories you should be having trouble with losing too much weight, including lean muscle. You should weigh everything you eat and calculate how many calories you need using your TDEE, and then eat below that to lose weight. If you aren't losing weight it's because you are calculating your intake incorrectly and not eating at a deficit.

    This. Quoted for truth.

    It does make sense...if you do not fuel your body properly it will hold on to EVERYTHING it has. It's like a car, the farther you go the more gas it needs. Simple.
    Except when your car runs out of gas, it stops running. It doesn't hold on to some gas because it's going to run out. your body CAN NOT hold on to stored fat if you are not eating enough to provide it fuel to convert to energy, it has to break some part of your body down for that. If it isn't fat, it's muscle that gets broken down and used.

    Because a car is a man made object. Your body isn't. Of course the car will run out of gas. Your body on the other hand, will attempt it's best shot at holding on to the fat you've got and use the food coming in as energy. When the food gets to be scarce (such a for children in Etheopia, I believe is an example someone used) then the body MUST resort to breaking down the fat cells and muscle cells it has on hand. But if the body is continually getting a source of nurioushment in then it's going to use that first, b/c it's easiest to get to.

    Well yeah, but if the souce of nourishment doesn't supply the necessary energy requirements for the body, it will break down stored fat for energy. And then muscle if there isn't enough fat available. This is the basic premise of calorie deficit and CI/CO. Physics.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    It doesn't really make sense for her to say you can't lose weight because you aren't eating enough calories. If you aren't eating enough calories you should be having trouble with losing too much weight, including lean muscle. You should weigh everything you eat and calculate how many calories you need using your TDEE, and then eat below that to lose weight. If you aren't losing weight it's because you are calculating your intake incorrectly and not eating at a deficit.

    This. Quoted for truth.

    It does make sense...if you do not fuel your body properly it will hold on to EVERYTHING it has. It's like a car, the farther you go the more gas it needs. Simple.

    Thank you. This is exactly what she said. I eat more than the 1300 I was consuming plus some exercise calories and I would put on weight! She has me slowing increasing my calories so my body adjusts. She will still keep me at a deficit to help me lose but she wants me more at 2100. I am 5'9 I run at least 25 miles a week plus cross training and lifting and weigh 187 pounds.

    Unless you have a rare medical problem, there is no way that a 187 lbs person, running 25 miles a week, PLUS cross training, plus your overall basic caloric expenditure, isn't losing weight on 1300 calories a day.

    It's not possible.

    If it were the world's starvation problem would not exist.

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