Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?

The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.

Wrong wrong wrong. The HPV vaccine was already under development over 15 years ago. In order to be approved by the FDA, vaccines have to go through numerous levels of research. First, animal trials are done extensively. Then, trials are conducted with a small number of subjects. Phase 2 consists of clinical trials with a few hundred subjects, followed by Phase 3 with thousands of subjects. If the vaccine fails to show any efficacy or has harmful effects at any of those stages, it will not be approved. Because the vaccine (and it's competitor, Cervarix) were both approved by the FDA, we KNOW that they work and are safe.

Not always. A lot of clinical trials aren't long enough to really parse out long term effects. They do the best they can to investigate side effects, but there is only so much that can be done in the time frame - it's just not always feasible to follow a drug for years on end before moving onto the next phase, and thus a number of side effects are found in post-marketing. For example, Zofran (an anti-nausea drug) was later found to have the potential to cause long-QT syndrome (a heart rhythm disorder). A lot of antidepressants are taken for much longer than was ever tested and again, post-marketing side effects are discovered.

My point is, we don't KNOW they are safe - we have reasonable certainty, but not everything is always known at the time they come out. I've been on drugs in the NDA phase, and I am definitely for vaccines and pro-medication in the right circumstances, I can just completely understand the trepidation with a brand new medication on the market.

When I had my kids I did HOURS and HOURS of research on vaccines. I am definitely pro for some of them (not all) but I also ordered them spaced out. I said no way to chicken pox vax, and HELL no on the Gardisil vax for my daughter. The US has the highest number of autoimmune diseases in the WORLD. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. We also do the most vaccinations, which many believe lead to auto-immune diseases. AND, when the CDC reported that "they can not conclusively claim that vaccines cause autism" was the same thing as saying that can't conclusively claim they DON'T. For me it's not just the autism issue (which I have three friends with autistic kids who ALL claim it happened after a vaccine), it's all of the other illnesses as well. I will tell you that my kids (12 & 8) rarely get sick, are very healthy, have no allergies and thankfully, no autoimmune diseases or intestinal issues (which we all know is the HEART of the immune system). There is no conclusive evidence for either side of the argument (as far as autoimmune / autism goes) so, I take the perspective that my health is my responsibility and I will decide for myself based on my own research.

My daughter got the chicken pox prior to me having to make the decision on the vaccine. I also said no to Gardisil, girls have extreme reactions and the prevention is so small.

For years we've used vaccines to help reduce some childhood killers, but out spoken celebrities like Jenny McCarthy, have swayed some into thinking that they are responsible for autism. Now pertussis (whooping cough) is back on the rise and has claimed a couple of lives. The correlation with the deaths..................no vaccination for either child.
Are there valid reasons to avoid them? Depends on one's POV or belief. Some catholics don't believe in vaccines because of use of aborted fetal cell lines in making them. Others don't believe that a foreign virus should be introduced into the body.
What we DO KNOW, is that vaccines have prevented millions of childhood outbreaks that used to kill children before they were administered. And I'll take protecting a child from death over personal views of individuals who are against them.

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I am in favor of vaccines, though not at the rate and frequency currently practiced, especially given the lack of evidence that more than doubling the vaccine protocol since I was a child has produced improvement.

A note on the pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine. In addition to getting one in your third trimester of pregnancy (each one), everyone who hasn't had the vaccine since 2005 should get one, as it was reformulated.

Anyone who hasn't had whooping cough vaccine since 2005 would be due for a booster anyway.

Whooping cough vaccine ( and whooping cough immunity from natural disease) only lasts 7 - 10 years.

My daughter got the chicken pox prior to me having to make the decision on the vaccine. I also said no to Gardisil, girls have extreme reactions and the prevention is so small.

The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.

Wrong wrong wrong. The HPV vaccine was already under development over 15 years ago. In order to be approved by the FDA, vaccines have to go through numerous levels of research. First, animal trials are done extensively. Then, trials are conducted with a small number of subjects. Phase 2 consists of clinical trials with a few hundred subjects, followed by Phase 3 with thousands of subjects. If the vaccine fails to show any efficacy or has harmful effects at any of those stages, it will not be approved. Because the vaccine (and it's competitor, Cervarix) were both approved by the FDA, we KNOW that they work and are safe.

I work in public health and am very VERY much pro-vaccine.

I also encourage people to get their flu shot, for several reasons. I know I'm probably banging my head against a brick wall here, but I have to try.

-Influenza is the only infectious disease (yes not even HIV/AIDS) that is in the top 10 causes of death in the USA.

-In 2010 over 50,000 people died due to Influenza or Pneumonia. That's not a couple of people.

-Even if you are young and healthy, flu can still kill you or cause lasting complications. H1N1 is a great example. H1N1 is more deadly in younger and healthier people BECAUSE they are healthier. It induces a cytokine storm response which can lead to Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) that even today 1/3 of people who have ARDS will die.

-I have a friend (I can even link to her story if you want it) that got H1N1. She went septic and by the time she was out of the hospital she had: lost both legs below the knees, partial amputations of all of her digits, a large thoracotomy scar, and numerous surgeries.

The problem is a lot of people will say they have the 'flu' when in reality, they probably don't, they just have a nasty cold.

Unless you are immunocompromised or extremely ill with chronic conditions THE FLU SHOT CANNOT GIVE YOU THE FLU. The vaccines contain inactivated (non-infectious) viruses or in some cases don't contain the virus (microbial DNA). The mild fever you MAY get shortly after the vaccine is a side effect.

But! I ALWAYS get the Flu when I get the Flu shot! One, make sure you ACTUALLY have the flu, you can get an antiretroviral for it (tamiflu). Second, the efficacy of the shot varies from year to year (usually it's in the 60% to 70% range) because vaccine manufacturers have to guess (by looking at the Southern Hemisphere) what viruses are going to be circulating and they don't always guess correctly. So if you do get the flu (and they will type your flu b/c it's reportable to the state and Feds) you most likely were 1) exposed to the virus before you were vaccinated and 2) you contracted a strain that wasn't in the vaccine.

I'm not very good at checking back on threads so if you have a question feel free to send me a message.

The flu shot that you get from Bayer or Baxter Pharmaceutical could be laced with avian flu (60% kill rate) or HIV. Both of which has happened recently. Read about it in my post above.

ETA: Also, cytokine storm is likely caused by a vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D down-regulates an over-active immune response.

p.s. Tamiflu is a very bad drug BUT it made certain people a LOT richer. Most knowledgeable docs won't even give it to anyone.

Cytokine storm and vitamin D deficiency? While vitamin D does effect the immune system, it is highly unlikely to the point of preventing a cytokine storm (PS: one study =/= likely). Keep in mind the Spanish Flu pandemic started in the United States in August and September and reached its height in October.

Ah--but the peak of mortality was late in the following winter. Interestingly, the death toll in South Africa (the fifth largest outbreak in the world) peaked in October--the end of their winter, when vitamin D levels would have been at their lowest.

I don't like the lack of clarity regarding their effectiveness and safety.
What clarity is lacking is made up for in heavy doses of FEAR and INTIMIDATION.
It's not how I like to make decisions and choices.

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

I was wondering that too!

Also, where in the Bible does it say "Thou shalt not vaccinate"? What specifically is the religious objection? [Not trying to be combative, I've just never heard of that outside of faith healing believers.]

As for the Bible, as far as I know (I'm not particularly devout) it doesn't say crap all. Not sure about Mormons, but my very very Catholic family thinks that vaccinations "go against God" because it's introducing something foreign to your body. (So you can best believe that they take issue with me having tattoos and piercings.) I can't say that all Catholics believe that though. My mother finds that notion hilarious, but her sister sh-ts a brick about it.

I laugh at religious people who think that way and this is coming from a very strong christian. Medicine has been used forever and it is just more advanced now. FYI food and water are foreign to your body as well and they introduce nutrients and all. Its people thinking inside a box with people inside a box and trying to add meaning to trivial stuff.

For.
I've been a nurse for 25+ years and have seen the crippling effects of polio and other diseases that could have been prevented by vaccination.

Perhaps the greatest success story in public health is the reduction of infectious diseases resulting from the use of vaccines. Routine immunization has eradicated smallpox from the globe and led to the near elimination of wild polio virus. Vaccines have reduced some preventable infectious diseases to an all-time low, and now few people experience the devastating effects of measles, pertussis, and other illnesses. Prior to approval by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), vaccines are tested extensively by scientists to ensure they are effective and safe. Vaccines are the best defense we have against infectious diseases; however, no vaccine is 100% safe or effective. Differences in the way individual immune systems react to a vaccine account for rare occasions when people are not protected following immunization or when they experience side effects.

Has the reduction occurred due to vaccination or has it occurred due to improved sanitation, better access to nourishing food and less crowding in dwellings than in the past, when people had much larger families? It might interest you to know that pertussis outbreaks are more likely to affect the vaccinated than the un-vaccinated. Since it is not effective at establishing immunity in infants, why is it given to them?

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

I personally have NEVER met a person that has had shingles. Just saying it is not very common. I was involved with chicken pox party as a kid so was my sister, wife, sister in law and parents/uncle/aunts. So i will let you know if any ever get shingles.

It's extremely painful I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

I personally have NEVER met a person that has had shingles. Just saying it is not very common. I was involved with chicken pox party as a kid so was my sister, wife, sister in law and parents/uncle/aunts. So i will let you know if any ever get shingles.

I was not vaccinated against chickenpox because "back then" the vaccine was not available. I did get it as a child and I DID get shingles as an older adult. OMG, it is not fun, it is terrible painful, debilitating and very contagious.

Shingles is very common in older adults and it could be very damaging .Furthermore, having had chicken pox and the shingles, DOES NOT mean that you cannot get it again (shingles), so I got the shingles vaccine and so did my husband. I am not going thru that misery again.

I have a friend who got the shingles vaccine and still got shingles. She was very angry with her physician who assured her that she would not get the shingles again after taking the vaccine.