Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?
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I am for them. But I also trip out on people who are for them and freak out about another parent NOT vaccinating their child. Why would you worry about someone NOT being vaccinated when YOUR child IS??? To each his own and as long as mine are protected, then it is your choice what you do with yours.0
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Just thinking what a blessing vaccines were against Polio etc.0
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"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "
Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.
I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?
I already said several times in this thread that I am not an anti-vaxer. But I am in favor of an informed public who insists that the corporations who make and distribute vaccine have the highest quality standards that do not give way in the face of the profit-motive. I am also in favor of actually telling people the truth about what they are administering to their children--that there is a chance that it could injure their children. I am also adamantly opposed to the law that allows them to escape being sued by the parents of those whose children are harmed by a vaccine. That only insures that we will get more of the sloppiness that could lead to dire consequences. I am in favor of REAL government watchdogs looking over the shoulder of the giant pharmaceutical houses instead of cozying up to them. (Ever wonder why so many top people at the FDA end up in lucrative positions at one or another of the big pharmaceutical firms?)0 -
Just thinking what a blessing vaccines were against Polio etc.
Mmm--yeah, and getting the SV40 virus was a real blessing when the polio epidemic was already over? (You can read all about the SV40 contamination further up in the thread.)0 -
I'm in favor of immunizations. Since age 16 I have deferred to my daughter to decide for herself what goes into her body and she has opted out of flu shots (she's had the flu pretty bad a couple of times since then). I personally get a flu shot every year because I have a chronic illness and want take the best care of myself that I can.0
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I'm all for them....when I was a kid me and my brother got whooping cough. I'd been vaccinated against it but at the time my brother was due to get it there was a health scare (one of many!) and he was unable to have it...the result he was actually quite poorly for some time while I only had a mild version. My kids get anything that's on offer, better safe than sorry as far as I'm concerned and none of us are hypochondriacs and rarely need to see a GP0
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Against. Why? Because they are bullcrap! They almost never do anything.
And this is why me, (and my 23 year old brother) are terrified of the Doctor because EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO, they give us a shot for no reason whatsoever. I don't care if I sound or act childish, I'm terrified of thin sharp needles that stick into my skin for no reason. It's stupid. They either love seeing me cry in pain, or give me a shot for what they say will help, but will really make me sick.
Because while your immune system might be able to fight off the virus, you are endangering people with compromised immune systems. It's a public health issue and honestly just a nice thing to do. Would you rather someone die than get pricked for five seconds?0 -
Transferred a 1 month old baby to the NICU from my emergency department with pertussis ... have no idea if they lived or died. It was horrendous.
I am definitely pro-vaccine.
Even if every adult or older child in the family had been vaccinated (which is unlikely), that is no assurance that the baby would not have contracted the bordetella p. infection. The best insurance against infection in newborns is breast feeding---the mother's immunity is passed through her breastmilk. And that is the case with all infectious diseases--and there are many for which we do NOT have vaccines (and likely never will have). Vaccines are not some magic elixir.
Of course the baby could still contract whooping cough, nobody is saying vaccines are 100% effective - but chances are MUCH lower and chances of severe disease are MUCH lower.
The mother will also only pass the immunity she has - unless the mother has contracted whooping cough or been vaccinated for whooping cough in last 7 - 10 years, she will not be passing on whooping cough immunity.
Some immunity lasts longer than others - whooping cough is relatively short lasting.
I hope you are not suggesting that the pertussis vaccine would do a thing in a one-month old infant?0 -
this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/
Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.
Enter conspiracy theories
do the flu vaccines have mind control in them as well?0 -
I am for them. But I also trip out on people who are for them and freak out about another parent NOT vaccinating their child. Why would you worry about someone NOT being vaccinated when YOUR child IS??? To each his own and as long as mine are protected, then it is your choice what you do with yours.
A vaccine is not ment to prevent kids 100% from anything. However, have you seen the way kids pass around germs? Send a kid to day care and kid gets sick. Parents freak out a lot more. But a non-vaccinated kid would be the one at higher risk. Parents freaking out are because a non-vaccinated kid could be a full blown carrier of a disease that the kids are vaccinated against but not 100% protected from.0 -
Against. Why? Because they are bullcrap! They almost never do anything.
And this is why me, (and my 23 year old brother) are terrified of the Doctor because EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO, they give us a shot for no reason whatsoever. I don't care if I sound or act childish, I'm terrified of thin sharp needles that stick into my skin for no reason. It's stupid. They either love seeing me cry in pain, or give me a shot for what they say will help, but will really make me sick.
Because while your immune system might be able to fight off the virus, you are endangering people with compromised immune systems. It's a public health issue and honestly just a nice thing to do. Would you rather someone die than get pricked for five seconds?
Seriously? The guilt trip? Sorry, but aren't those people safe because THEY were smart and HAVE been vaccinated?0 -
Against. Why? Because they are bullcrap! They almost never do anything.
And this is why me, (and my 23 year old brother) are terrified of the Doctor because EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO, they give us a shot for no reason whatsoever. I don't care if I sound or act childish, I'm terrified of thin sharp needles that stick into my skin for no reason. It's stupid. They either love seeing me cry in pain, or give me a shot for what they say will help, but will really make me sick.
Because while your immune system might be able to fight off the virus, you are endangering people with compromised immune systems. It's a public health issue and honestly just a nice thing to do. Would you rather someone die than get pricked for five seconds?
Seriously? The guilt trip? Sorry, but aren't those people safe because THEY were smart and HAVE been vaccinated?
My wife is one that has a compromised immune system yes she gets vaccines but that only helps it does not prevent. Her internal medicine doctor told her he preferred if she did no work in health care or at a nursery because even with the vaccine she is still at a greater risk of getting sick. If people are obviously sick we avoid places for her health.0 -
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Vaccines? WTF? These chemicals are just there to KILL our children! They do nothing to eradicate horrible diseases. You people that are pro vac are crazy! These vaccines are nothing but poison! All the government cares about is making money and NOT to help our children! DO NOT vaccinate! The vaccines will infiltrate your body and turn you into zombies!
Ok, ok. I KIDD! Sorry! And yes, I am very much PRO VACC!0 -
Transferred a 1 month old baby to the NICU from my emergency department with pertussis ... have no idea if they lived or died. It was horrendous.
I am definitely pro-vaccine.
Even if every adult or older child in the family had been vaccinated (which is unlikely), that is no assurance that the baby would not have contracted the bordetella p. infection. The best insurance against infection in newborns is breast feeding---the mother's immunity is passed through her breastmilk. And that is the case with all infectious diseases--and there are many for which we do NOT have vaccines (and likely never will have). Vaccines are not some magic elixir.
Of course the baby could still contract whooping cough, nobody is saying vaccines are 100% effective - but chances are MUCH lower and chances of severe disease are MUCH lower.
The mother will also only pass the immunity she has - unless the mother has contracted whooping cough or been vaccinated for whooping cough in last 7 - 10 years, she will not be passing on whooping cough immunity.
Some immunity lasts longer than others - whooping cough is relatively short lasting.
I hope you are not suggesting that the pertussis vaccine would do a thing in a one-month old infant?
The sooner an infant can be safely vaccinated the better - in Australia we are vaccinating for whooping cough etc from 6 weeks old.
However younger babies will be protected by the herd immunity of others - which is why we are also encouraging vaccination of adults with close contact to the baby - parents, grandparents, child care workers.0 -
Against. Why? Because they are bullcrap! They almost never do anything.
And this is why me, (and my 23 year old brother) are terrified of the Doctor because EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO, they give us a shot for no reason whatsoever. I don't care if I sound or act childish, I'm terrified of thin sharp needles that stick into my skin for no reason. It's stupid. They either love seeing me cry in pain, or give me a shot for what they say will help, but will really make me sick.
Because while your immune system might be able to fight off the virus, you are endangering people with compromised immune systems. It's a public health issue and honestly just a nice thing to do. Would you rather someone die than get pricked for five seconds?
Seriously? The guilt trip? Sorry, but aren't those people safe because THEY were smart and HAVE been vaccinated?
People who are vaccinated are much less likely to catch the disease or are likely to get it in a much less severe form - but vaccines are not 100% effective.
Which is where herd immunity comes into play.
There are also some people who cannot be vaccinated - due to allergies, immune-compromised conditions like leukaemia etc.
So, yes, I do think it is a public health issue, not a private issue. Nobody lives in a vacuum and what we do does affect other people.0 -
"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "
Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.
I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?
I already said several times in this thread that I am not an anti-vaxer. But I am in favor of an informed public who insists that the corporations who make and distribute vaccine have the highest quality standards that do not give way in the face of the profit-motive. I am also in favor of actually telling people the truth about what they are administering to their children--that there is a chance that it could injure their children. I am also adamantly opposed to the law that allows them to escape being sued by the parents of those whose children are harmed by a vaccine. That only insures that we will get more of the sloppiness that could lead to dire consequences. I am in favor of REAL government watchdogs looking over the shoulder of the giant pharmaceutical houses instead of cozying up to them. (Ever wonder why so many top people at the FDA end up in lucrative positions at one or another of the big pharmaceutical firms?)
Well, I am in Australia - so . no, I do not wonder things about the FDA.
However I am still not sure what you are arguing here - yes of course vaccines need to be monitored and controlled to high quality standards and of course there is the possibility of harm (just like with any other medication) - but the benefits FAR out weigh the risks.0 -
Nonvaxers are going to hell. God told me. Last night.0
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"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "
Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.
I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?
I already said several times in this thread that I am not an anti-vaxer. But I am in favor of an informed public who insists that the corporations who make and distribute vaccine have the highest quality standards that do not give way in the face of the profit-motive. I am also in favor of actually telling people the truth about what they are administering to their children--that there is a chance that it could injure their children. I am also adamantly opposed to the law that allows them to escape being sued by the parents of those whose children are harmed by a vaccine. That only insures that we will get more of the sloppiness that could lead to dire consequences. I am in favor of REAL government watchdogs looking over the shoulder of the giant pharmaceutical houses instead of cozying up to them. (Ever wonder why so many top people at the FDA end up in lucrative positions at one or another of the big pharmaceutical firms?)
Well, I am in Australia - so . no, I do not wonder things about the FDA.
Well, maybe you should worry just a little about the FDA, since they cooperated in the coverup of the Bayer scandal which allowed Bayer to unload their HIV-tainted hemophiliac drug on European, Asian and Latin American countries. It could just as easily have been Australia.0 -
The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.
Wrong wrong wrong. The HPV vaccine was already under development over 15 years ago. In order to be approved by the FDA, vaccines have to go through numerous levels of research. First, animal trials are done extensively. Then, trials are conducted with a small number of subjects. Phase 2 consists of clinical trials with a few hundred subjects, followed by Phase 3 with thousands of subjects. If the vaccine fails to show any efficacy or has harmful effects at any of those stages, it will not be approved. Because the vaccine (and it's competitor, Cervarix) were both approved by the FDA, we KNOW that they work and are safe.
Not always. A lot of clinical trials aren't long enough to really parse out long term effects. They do the best they can to investigate side effects, but there is only so much that can be done in the time frame - it's just not always feasible to follow a drug for years on end before moving onto the next phase, and thus a number of side effects are found in post-marketing. For example, Zofran (an anti-nausea drug) was later found to have the potential to cause long-QT syndrome (a heart rhythm disorder). A lot of antidepressants are taken for much longer than was ever tested and again, post-marketing side effects are discovered.
My point is, we don't KNOW they are safe - we have reasonable certainty, but not everything is always known at the time they come out. I've been on drugs in the NDA phase, and I am definitely for vaccines and pro-medication in the right circumstances, I can just completely understand the trepidation with a brand new medication on the market.
What we do know, all too well, is that cervical cancer can be fatal and even where not fatal can leave a woman infertile or unable to carry a child to term. Pap smears have definitely cut the numbers of deaths and HPV screening and removal procedures have helped, but those carry complications for fertility and life in the future as well, and are highly dependent on close monitoring and early detection.
This year around12,360 new cases of invasive cervical cancer will be diagnosed and around 4,020 women will die from cervical cancer.
Oh I hear you on that. I am just saying ANYTHING you put in your body has some inherent risk, and that it is always going to be a matter of weighing risk vs. benefit. In the case of vaccines, I still believe the benefits FAR outweigh the risks, but am not blind to the fact that a very small risk is still there and that we do not know for a fact what our long term effects will be. Of course, no one can live a life 100% protected from every single bad thing that could happen and that a small risk should not keep you from doing something that provides an immense benefit.0
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