Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?

I'm a very all-natural type and I still got my kids vaccinated. I'm a doula, an earth-mother type, I insist on picking our own fresh organic foods, we have a freezer full of moose and fish caught in our own Canadian wilderness, breastfed, birthed my own babies at home yadda yadda crunchy etc, and I still insisted on vaccinations.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

:drinker: :flowerforyou:

Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

:drinker: :flowerforyou:

Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao

If your only purpose here is to hurl insults, I suggest you go somewhere else in the forums, S.O.B. You have ignored all of the scientific articles from reputable sources that I have posted in this thread. :laugh: back atcha'!

You wouldn't know a reputable source if your life depended on it, but please do carry on. I'll continue to be entertained by the Internet.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

:drinker: :flowerforyou:

Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao

If your only purpose here is to hurl insults, I suggest you go somewhere else in the forums, S.O.B. You have ignored all of the scientific articles from reputable sources that I have posted in this thread. :laugh: back atcha'!

You wouldn't know a reputable source if your life depended on it, but please do carry on. I'll continue to be entertained by the Internet.

And yet another insult? I agree with you on the internet being entertaining. Would you consider PubMed an unreliable source? How about the CDC and the National Institutes of Health? In this thread, I have posted articles from all three. You are out of line.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/

Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.

jesus is this still going o.O

it's like putting a red flag in front of a bull when i see these things I can't help myself:laugh:
It's even worse when it comes to politics

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/

Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.

you understand the nature of peer reviewed science at the academic level world wide do you not. An anecdotal comment from one scientist does not invalidate a proven system (I have many friends in the academic world at the university level. Not one would believe the emperor has no clothes in the case of vaccines - which have saved literally millions of lives and millions more from misery since they became widespread and common
Once again show me a peer reviewed study from any respected source world wide that supports the anti vac stance and i will listen. Right now I put anti vac right up there with the Contrail Conspiracy crowd sorry but unless you can show with sciuence that vaccines are bad then i'll stick with the science that it is good (and you should know better as you are of an age to have seen what some of these horrible diseases that have been near eradicated can do. I went to school with polio victims, have a cousin deaf due to rubella.... another cousin died as a young child of whooping cough.
not to mention diseases that are making a comeback due to this idiocy like TB...

And how would you know how old I am? I have stated before in this thread that I am not actually anti-vaccine. But I am pro-examining all sides of the issue and using SCIENCE to do so. It is a FACT (reported in legitimate media outlets like the Toronto Star) that Baxter sent out a sample of H3N2 seasonal flu virus (spiked with an unlabeled H1N1, by the way) that was contaminated with live H5N1 avian flu virus (kill rate of 60%) with no explanation of how it got there or whether it would possibly happen again. Four European countries are investigating the incident.

It is a FACT that, "...in 2006, the Bayer Corporation discovered that their injection drug, which was used by hemophiliacs, was contaminated with the HIV virus. Internal documents prove that after they positively knew that the drug was contaminated, they took it off the U.S. market only to dump it on the European, Asian and Latin American markets, knowingly exposing thousands, most of them children, to the live HIV virus. Government officials in France went to prison for allowing the drug to be distributed. The documents show that the FDA colluded with Bayer to cover-up the scandal and allowed the deadly drug to be distributed globally. No Bayer executives ever faced arrest or prosecution in the United States..."

And you want us to trust them?

"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "

Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.

I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?

I am for them. But I also trip out on people who are for them and freak out about another parent NOT vaccinating their child. Why would you worry about someone NOT being vaccinated when YOUR child IS??? To each his own and as long as mine are protected, then it is your choice what you do with yours.

"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "

Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.

I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?

I already said several times in this thread that I am not an anti-vaxer. But I am in favor of an informed public who insists that the corporations who make and distribute vaccine have the highest quality standards that do not give way in the face of the profit-motive. I am also in favor of actually telling people the truth about what they are administering to their children--that there is a chance that it could injure their children. I am also adamantly opposed to the law that allows them to escape being sued by the parents of those whose children are harmed by a vaccine. That only insures that we will get more of the sloppiness that could lead to dire consequences. I am in favor of REAL government watchdogs looking over the shoulder of the giant pharmaceutical houses instead of cozying up to them. (Ever wonder why so many top people at the FDA end up in lucrative positions at one or another of the big pharmaceutical firms?)

I'm in favor of immunizations. Since age 16 I have deferred to my daughter to decide for herself what goes into her body and she has opted out of flu shots (she's had the flu pretty bad a couple of times since then). I personally get a flu shot every year because I have a chronic illness and want take the best care of myself that I can.

Against. Why? Because they are bullcrap! They almost never do anything.
And this is why me, (and my 23 year old brother) are terrified of the Doctor because EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO, they give us a shot for no reason whatsoever. I don't care if I sound or act childish, I'm terrified of thin sharp needles that stick into my skin for no reason. It's stupid. They either love seeing me cry in pain, or give me a shot for what they say will help, but will really make me sick.

Because while your immune system might be able to fight off the virus, you are endangering people with compromised immune systems. It's a public health issue and honestly just a nice thing to do. Would you rather someone die than get pricked for five seconds?

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/

Read.

this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/

Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.

Enter conspiracy theories
do the flu vaccines have mind control in them as well?