Paleo vs. Clean eating?

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  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    So if I've got this correct today I should eat 800g of carbs .... mmmmmmm carbs?

    Please can you send me a list of what foods I need to include in those 800g.
    The list involves all foods high in carbs; utilise to meet your other macros while you're at it.
    Actually, may be best to avoid too many of the 'whole grains' and vegetables high in fibre, consider 'white alternatives'*.

    And yes, if you are planning to do an ultra-marathon on the day after and weigh about the same as me, eating 800g of carbs is a pretty decent idea, I'd say!

    *Having a lot of fibre the day before a long run may not be ideal for your guts!

    And sadly, yes, I probably COULD document my weight loss and so on, claim that it's purely the food *I* like to eat that did it, get some decent marketing and sell loads of copies.

    But when the reality is I haven't seen any decent evidence that food choices make a big difference (apart from intolerances/allergies/etc), I'd feel a bit bad getting people to cough up as it could be condensed to...
    "Calorie deficit. Get enough protein and micronutrients. Do exercise if you want to be generally fit too."
    So, there you go - my book, for you, for free! :D

    Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that you would get in the same weight of meat you eat?

    For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.

    But hey Guru Gee if you say I have to chug a McDondald's then that's what I'll do - If it fits my Macros - right!!!

    Do you assume there is no macro or micronutrient benefit from a mcdonalds egg mcmuffin sandwhich? Because it's just egg, cheese, canadian bacon and an english muffin.

    Also, carb loading is very conducive towards his exercise needs.

    I think you may have misread my post!

    'compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives'.

    In regards to carb loading when doing heavy exercising - totally agree - feed the muscles.
  • Escloflowne
    Escloflowne Posts: 2,038 Member
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    It's just a fad, it seems most people would rather brag about themselves being Paleo or "clean eaters" than anything. I guess they think it's a status symbol to uneducated unfit people but the rest of us just think they are pretentious and wasting their time.

    Calorie deficit and get all of your nutrients and you will be healthy and lose weight! You could even eat McDonald's!!!!! O.o

    I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
    IKEA Professional Put Together-er
    Kickboxing Class Attender
    Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kinesiology, nutrition and Dinosaurs
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.
    Which ones?
    What are you basing this on, that there are more micronutrients in the meat you consume?

    If you have ACTUAL evidence, I would be GENUINELY interested to hear it!

    Also, do you think it matters, if your diet already contains enough of these micronutrients?

    Oh and I haven't said you HAVE to do either. Infact, quite the opposite you'll note the very basis of the way I choose what to eat goes around "foods I like to eat"! I am about choice, not restrictions, unless there's good evidence to back up why you should restrict.
    (For instance, there is some evidence that if you're obese and unfit, that you should avoid too many simple carbs - however, while I am literally *just* below the 'overweight' BMI, in reality I think I'm probably certainly a little lower than average leaness and also fitter than average - not suggesting I'm in amazing shape, but certainly "better than average" :)).
  • impyimpyaj
    impyimpyaj Posts: 1,073 Member
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    I haven't read the entire thread, because I'm tired and I need to get ready for work. But here's my two cents:

    There are varying definitions of "eating clean" and even "paleo." It's going to be impossible to find a consensus on either of those terms. And it's going to be impossible to find a consensus on whether or not either is healthier or necessary.

    So take a look at your current diet. Are you feeling good eating the way you are? Are you having success and reaching your goals? If so, great! You may not need to change anything. But if you're not having success, or if you want to make a change to make your eating habits even better than they are right now, take a look at what you're eating now and think about one way you could improve it. Something that's achievable and sustainable for you in the long term. Then make that change, and monitor how your body reacts. If you feel even better, then it's a good change, and you should stick with it. If it makes you feel bad, or if you're struggling with sticking to it, then perhaps now is not the time to make that particular change.

    The way you eat and the way you exercise are very personal choices. Yes, there are some things that are healthier for everybody, but even at that, your own personality comes into play, and some things are just not sustainable for some people. So as long as you're continually looking to make improvements that are reasonable and sustainable for you and your lifestyle, you're doing well.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    How about a moderate calorie deficit, with some attention paid to macro and micro nutrient content?

    pfffff who needs that when you can put on a loin cloth, grab a spear, and go hunt down a wooly mammoth….?

    just in the interests of scientific accuracy..... palaeolithic humans would not have bothered with the loin cloth. Modesty is a modern concept and any depiction of palaeolithic people in loincloths is purely so as not to offend the sensibilities of modern people, and is also totally unrealistic. Loincloths are utterly useless as clothes as they don't keep you warm. They're only for people who for whatever cultural reasons prefer to keep their genitals covered, which seems to be a modern phenomenon.

    agreed…..I was just putting that in there for idiotic emphasis..:)

    that's cool :) I wanted to emphasise some of the wider implications of being hardcore about going paleo........ don't just eat paleo,... wear paleo.... i mean modern people tend to be lacking in vitamin D due to not getting enough sunlight on their skin... :happy: :tongue: :drinker: :bigsmile:
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.
    Which ones?
    What are you basing this on, that there are more micronutrients in the meat you consume?

    If you have ACTUAL evidence, I would be GENUINELY interested to hear it!

    Oh and I haven't said you HAVE to do either. Infact, quite the opposite you'll note the very basis of the way I choose what to eat goes around "foods I like to eat"! I am about choice, not restrictions, unless there's good evidence to back up why you should restrict.
    (For instance, there is some evidence that if you're obese and unfit, that you should avoid too many simple carbs - however, while I am literally *just* below the 'overweight' BMI, in reality I think I'm probably certainly a little lower than average leaness and also fitter than average - not suggesting I'm in amazing shape, but certainly "better than average" :)).

    So you actually believe for the calorie intake you get from your McDonalds meal - and you could not eat a single alternative meal that would not give you a higher and broader level of Micro Nutrients?

    Please I would love to read your chapter on that one.

    If you CHOOSE not to eat grains - how is that a RESTRICTION?
  • ckeachie
    ckeachie Posts: 26
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    I also eat Paleo/Primal, which actually came out of my 2 year old's diagnosis of a dairy protein allergy (different from lactose intolerance), and gluten sensitivity, suspected celiacs but she is too tiny to be fully tested.

    My hubby and I both started this with her, almost 2 years ago now. She was so little that we didn't want to be giving her one thing for dinner and telling her she couldn't eat what we were having. It grew into our diet now, which has introduced organic goats milk cheese on occasion, but a primary focus on high quality meats, vegetables, fruits, healthy fats and no grains. We do have legumes on occasion, but we have learned that my husband's lifetime of bowel issues (IBS, constant gut rot and heartburn) was very much associated to our diet, and has completely disappeared within 30 days of eating pale/primal.

    Did we give up ice cream and pizza forever, heck no! On occasion we have these things, but are prepared to feel crappy the next day if we do! Our energy has increased significantly, our mental focus has become incredible, and we feel incredible all around.

    It's not for everyone though! I started looking into nutrition of different foods, wanting to make sure that my significantly underweight 2 year old was getting appropriate nutrients from the foods we were eating, and started to make choices based on nutrient density… naturally this led to the pale diet (with her restrictions). I do believe it is worth trying, there are so many recipes and ideas online, but the key part of Paleo is not just the foods you are eating, but making sure you are eating the appropriate amounts of healthy fats and nutritious foods! For me, I end up eating a lot more food than others do, because the lower calorie of the foods I do consume.
  • idontcarroll
    idontcarroll Posts: 216 Member
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    It's just a fad, it seems most people would rather brag about themselves being Paleo or "clean eaters" than anything. I guess they think it's a status symbol to uneducated unfit people but the rest of us just think they are pretentious and wasting their time.

    Calorie deficit and get all of your nutrients and you will be healthy and lose weight! You could even eat McDonald's!!!!! O.o

    I can has GMOs?
  • Escloflowne
    Escloflowne Posts: 2,038 Member
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    It's just a fad, it seems most people would rather brag about themselves being Paleo or "clean eaters" than anything. I guess they think it's a status symbol to uneducated unfit people but the rest of us just think they are pretentious and wasting their time.

    Calorie deficit and get all of your nutrients and you will be healthy and lose weight! You could even eat McDonald's!!!!! O.o

    I can has GMOs?

    GMO's are fine!!! People don't even know what it actually means and they freak out!

    I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
    IKEA Professional Put Together-er
    Kickboxing Class Attender
    Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kinesiology, nutrition and Dinosaurs
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    So you actually believe for the calorie intake you get from your McDonalds meal - and you could not eat a single alternative meal that would not give you a higher and broader level of Micro Nutrients?
    I do not believe that and have not said that. That you've tried to infer that from my question, where I'm trying to gain more knowledge is the sort of thing that will get people labelling you as a "troll".

    So, lets try again.

    Do you believe the meat in a McDonalds burger has less micronutrients than the meat you eat?
    A simple 'yes', or 'no' will be fine here!
    If you do, could you provide some backup to explain why you believe that.

    Next, if you have already had enough micronutrients of that kind, do you think that having more will be beneficial?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    So you actually believe for the calorie intake you get from your McDonalds meal - and you could not eat a single alternative meal that would not give you a higher and broader level of Micro Nutrients?
    I do not believe that and have not said that. That you've tried to infer that from my question, where I'm trying to gain more knowledge is the sort of thing that will get people labelling you as a "troll".

    So, lets try again.

    Do you believe the meat in a McDonalds burger has less micronutrients than the meat you eat?
    A simple 'yes', or 'no' will be fine here!
    If you do, could you provide some backup to explain why you believe that.

    Next, if you have already had enough micronutrients of that kind, do you think that having more will be beneficial?

    I'm sorry - not trolling - a natural assumption.

    I stated that For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.

    That's a pretty straight forward statement - but I'll break it down.

    What I am stating is that for the calories there are in a McDonalds meal - I BELIEVE that eating the same number of calories from another meal (made from different foods - for argument sake's organic grass feed beef - fresh steamed vegetables) you would be getting more mirco nutrients than eating the Mcdonald's meal.

    You seem to disagree with that so I was trying to clarify if you though otherwise. Because if you did and could explain why I had got it wrong - I could have learned something - and gained more knowledge.

    So a simple answer is No I do not believe I will get as many micro nutrients from a comparable calorie intake comparing my food and McDonalds - DO YOU?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Also are you able to answer the question - how is CHOOSING not to eat something a RESTRICTION?
  • DamePiglet
    DamePiglet Posts: 3,730 Member
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    wow do not want to start an argument lol...

    I pretty much been doing what you have been doing so far and had great success.. I just wanted to make an attempt to eat healthier..

    If you've had success, I personally wouldn't change anything... but if you think no processed foods might help feel better or have more success, why not try it?

    Some people swear by no processed foods, others don't really care. Both groups have had success, so I think it's just a personal preference.

    I don't think you'll get a consistent definition about what paleo or clean eating actually is though. Maybe start by trying what you think it is?

    I like this answer and would add: as it would work for you over the long haul.

    Also, I'd avoid using "clean" or "paleo/primal" to describe your dietary choices, as that (in my not-so-humble opinion) makes people appear to be pretentious and douchy.

    If I had health restrictions, I'd go with something like "lactose issue minimizing" to describe the way I eat.
    For me, I have a focus on eating more fresh fruits and veges because they really taste good and are full of nice micros.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Therefore by that reasoning everybody is on a restrictive diet.

    This morning I was going to have some eggs - but I chose not to (I was late for work and didn't have time to cook them).

    So today I am on an Egg restricted diet.

    Okay that makes sense - thanks for clearing that up.
  • DamePiglet
    DamePiglet Posts: 3,730 Member
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    Also are you able to answer the question - how is CHOOSING not to eat something a RESTRICTION?

    Um...I'll hazard a guess.. it's because you've CHOSEN to RESTRICT something from your diet.

    :laugh:
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,020 Member
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    Also are you able to answer the question - how is CHOOSING not to eat something a RESTRICTION?
    What he's saying is, if he's already met his daily micro's why would a McD's burger be a wrong choice especially if it helps a person's adherence. Also not everyone can arbitrarily remove complete food groups successfully and if a person can then it's like you say a choice and not a restriction. You guys......:happy:
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    If you are interested in adding a wider variety of nutritious food into your diet, I really like the recipes in the "Abs Diet Cookbook" even though I don't agree with the "Abs Diet"
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    So can I get this clear in my head - if I chose not to each grains then it's still a restriction because I have chosen not have them?

    Probably what is a clearer explanation of how I eat is:

    In the course of the day I do not even think about eating grains - the idea of a bowl of cereal doesn't enter the equation - at lunch I do not think mmmm a nice sandwich would be good.

    Therefore if I do not want to eat a particular food group - because it does not appeal to me - is that a restriction?

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